3500 Year Old Greek Masterpiece found on a thumb sized Agate

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: soberbacchus

The Minoans also had a heavy presence in britain

Okay, link me.

Harte

Well seeing he said A Heavy Presence according too BBC he is right ..
well more less the Influence ,
and whos to say a Travel for Trade, Here and there

Ancient-genome study finds Bronze Age ‘Beaker culture’ invaded Britain
Famous bell-shaped pots associated with group of immigrants who may have displaced Neolithic farmers.
www.nature.com...


Bronze Age Britain
www.bbc.co.uk...

Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece.

There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life,and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

so we all Happy ...

I don't know about you, but a "presence" to me means a presence. Neither link mentions anything like that.
The Minoans were a powerful civilization with broad influence. That perhaps some of their trade goods ended up in Britain wouldn't surprise me. But I see nothing to indicate that the Minoans themselves were present in Britain at any time.

Harte

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Wolfenz

It's quite a stretch to claim that the Bell Beaker Culture were Minoan though, don't you think? Their earliest archaeological remains predate Bronze Age in the late Neolithjc/ early Chalcolithic and I've seen no genetic studies that tie them to the Minoans so how exactly are you tying them in with a Minoan presence in Britain? I'm genuinely confused, not trying to give you a hard time for once!

go argue with BBC ..

as I said influence .. adaption I assume you know the Term ..

just as Egyptian, Hittie , Sumerian - Greek - Roman

I dont think you can Argue with that Stretch , Can you?

after all The Bronze Age Spread out.

Its a Minoans Influence peter Valar

NOT Them Selves ..

Vikings , Romans , as a brief example Adapted other Cultures into theirs
from the Divide and Conquered realm .

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: soberbacchus

The Minoans also had a heavy presence in britain

Okay, link me.

Harte

Well seeing he said A Heavy Presence according too BBC he is right ..
well more less the Influence ,
and whos to say a Travel for Trade, Here and there

Ancient-genome study finds Bronze Age ‘Beaker culture’ invaded Britain
Famous bell-shaped pots associated with group of immigrants who may have displaced Neolithic farmers.
www.nature.com...


Bronze Age Britain
www.bbc.co.uk...

Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece.

There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life,and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

so we all Happy ...

I don't know about you, but a "presence" to me means a presence. Neither link mentions anything like that.
The Minoans were a powerful civilization with broad influence. That perhaps some of their trade goods ended up in Britain wouldn't surprise me. But I see nothing to indicate that the Minoans themselves were present in Britain at any time.

Harte

listen...

I jump on the the Post as to say .. about the original poster

as he said heavy presence ( influence )

not from the Minoans themselves but other cultures travelers traders that learned from them.

and that is what the original poster was referring too. that the Minoans themselves

as we can Argue Debate all day Harte..

of the Old and new World Similarities that I pointed Out Numerous times in the Ancient world
and the Major Problem with that is TIME....... in Scale ..

Presence is also mean a vibe a feeling too Harte , not actually the main People


well I feel a Presence of the Smell of Italy
while im going too a Italian restaurant run by IRSIH/French/Mohawks

well actually Reality , going to my oven from my kitchen taking out a Digiorno Pizza..

while my Italian Dog Cane Corso witness the Leftovers ( well devouring ) whats left ( evidence ) of the Pizza

True Story by the way .. yes my My Dog is Italian and her Ancestors are over 3,000 years Old ! ( roman times )
and probably Her Kind was once in Britannia ..

Whatever.
What was actually said was that the Minoans had a "heavy presence in Britain."

The Minoans didn't even have a light presence in Britain, as far as I know.
Which is why I asked for a link to this information of Minoans present in ancient Britain.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
Whatever.
What was actually said was that the Minoans had a "heavy presence in Britain."

The Minoans didn't even have a light presence in Britain, as far as I know.
Which is why I asked for a link to this information of Minoans present in ancient Britain.

Harte

and I did ..... ...... for the Presence of Influence

if you want to have a Debate and tell BBC they are Wrong .. go for it

Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece. There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

Bronze Age Britain

Around 4,000 years ago the Bronze Age came to Britain. This was the crucial period that linked the Stone Age with the Iron Age, and during which it seems new people came in from continental Europe. What did the newcomers bring to these islands?

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: soberbacchus

WOW. That is awesome!!

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte
Whatever.
What was actually said was that the Minoans had a "heavy presence in Britain."

The Minoans didn't even have a light presence in Britain, as far as I know.
Which is why I asked for a link to this information of Minoans present in ancient Britain.

Harte

and I did ..... ...... for the Presence of Influence

if you want to have a Debate and tell BBC they are Wrong .. go for it

Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece. There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

Bronze Age Britain

Around 4,000 years ago the Bronze Age came to Britain. This was the crucial period that linked the Stone Age with the Iron Age, and during which it seems new people came in from continental Europe. What did the newcomers bring to these islands?

www.bbc.co.uk...

As the BBC says nothing about any Minoan presence, why do you insist we argue with the BBC?

My response was to the claim that there was a heavy presence of Minoans in Britain.

Now, I know the English language as well as anyone. I know what "presence" means, and it doesn't mean "influence."

If the poster has misstated what he meant, let him say so.

I was interested to see any evidence for a Minoan presence (heavy or otherwise) in Britain, so I asked for a link, and I got your argumentative post in response about something entirely different from what was stated in the post I replied to.

Harte

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Wolfenz

It's quite a stretch to claim that the Bell Beaker Culture were Minoan though, don't you think? Their earliest archaeological remains predate Bronze Age in the late Neolithjc/ early Chalcolithic and I've seen no genetic studies that tie them to the Minoans so how exactly are you tying them in with a Minoan presence in Britain? I'm genuinely confused, not trying to give you a hard time for once!

go argue with BBC ..

Why would I argue w BBC? You're making a claim not presented in their article. The issue is your interpretation not the citation.

as I said influence .. adaption I assume you know the Term ..

Sure, I'm quite familiar with the English language and neither term applies here.

just as Egyptian, Hittie , Sumerian - Greek - Roman

I dont think you can Argue with that Stretch , Can you?

Well, by your logic, a late Neolithic/ early Chalcolithic cukture in Britain who later used Bronze is a result of Mesopotamian influence then as they were the first to mine tin/arsenic and copper and develop the smelting process. So yes, I can argue that is a drastic leap with zero substance behind it.

after all The Bronze Age Spread out.

And predates the Minoans so again, if your logic is that the existence of Bronze smelting in Britain is a result of influence, then why pick the Minoans? They weren't the first to make bronze. Many, many other did so for 2 millennia prior to the Minoans

Its a Minoans Influence peter Valar

NOT Them Selves ..

It's neither and again, your inference can't be reached from the cited articles or any other material.

Vikings , Romans , as a brief example Adapted other Cultures into theirs
from the Divide and Conquered realm .

And there are records of such events. There is no evidence or record of Minoan presence (the original claim) let alone influence, in Britain. You haven't substantiated such an illogical leap of faith.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: soberbacchus

What can we say? Amazing! I can only guess that it is the work of a laser.

Just the work of a very skilled craftsman. This type of work is not unknown; the detail work on some seals as early as Babylonian times is quite impressive. Take a look at this one, done about a thousand years BEFORE that one was carved

Here's another example - about the size of a bead on a necklace yet notice that it's got a lot of text on it and that the figures are well detailed (this is smaller than the agate.)

Or this gold necklace from the tomb of a Scythian king

More and more we discover in bits and pieces that ancient history was not as simple as classical anthropology would have us believe.

Actually, you're not seeing what anthropology and archaeology would have you believe.

In general, you're just seeing one example that's proclaimed as "astonishing" rather than the millions of other examples that stretch back even earlier in time. Humans can do amazing things and they don't need modern technology. We've changed the tools and the processes (and the tools were discarded as "old fashioned" when better technology came along) but master artisans of the past were capable of some incredible designs (and engineering.)

I hope you'll take the time to explore some of the museums and get a sense of the marvels that have been discovered.

Is the bottom pic in your first link a Serberus?

a reply to: soberbacchus

Wow, I am lost for words................soooooo beautiful...........

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

Is the bottom pic in your first link a Serberus?

It's a griffin.

a reply to: Byrd

Ah yes. I remember now. Thanks.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte
Whatever.
What was actually said was that the Minoans had a "heavy presence in Britain."

The Minoans didn't even have a light presence in Britain, as far as I know.
Which is why I asked for a link to this information of Minoans present in ancient Britain.

Harte

and I did ..... ...... for the Presence of Influence

if you want to have a Debate and tell BBC they are Wrong .. go for it

Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece. There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

Bronze Age Britain

Around 4,000 years ago the Bronze Age came to Britain. This was the crucial period that linked the Stone Age with the Iron Age, and during which it seems new people came in from continental Europe. What did the newcomers bring to these islands?

www.bbc.co.uk...

As the BBC says nothing about any Minoan presence, why do you insist we argue with the BBC?

My response was to the claim that there was a heavy presence of Minoans in Britain.

Now, I know the English language as well as anyone. I know what "presence" means, and it doesn't mean "influence."

If the poster has misstated what he meant, let him say so.

I was interested to see any evidence for a Minoan presence (heavy or otherwise) in Britain, so I asked for a link, and I got your argumentative post in response about something entirely different from what was stated in the post I replied to.

Harte

Ohh boy ...

Presence , Meaning as they feel they had been there,,

Influence of another Culture that Adapted their ways ..

simple as that Harte ..

There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life

www.bbc.co.uk...

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Wolfenz

It's quite a stretch to claim that the Bell Beaker Culture were Minoan though, don't you think? Their earliest archaeological remains predate Bronze Age in the late Neolithjc/ early Chalcolithic and I've seen no genetic studies that tie them to the Minoans so how exactly are you tying them in with a Minoan presence in Britain? I'm genuinely confused, not trying to give you a hard time for once!

go argue with BBC ..

Why would I argue w BBC? You're making a claim not presented in their article. The issue is your interpretation not the citation.

as I said influence .. adaption I assume you know the Term ..

Sure, I'm quite familiar with the English language and neither term applies here.

just as Egyptian, Hittie , Sumerian - Greek - Roman

I dont think you can Argue with that Stretch , Can you?

Well, by your logic, a late Neolithic/ early Chalcolithic cukture in Britain who later used Bronze is a result of Mesopotamian influence then as they were the first to mine tin/arsenic and copper and develop the smelting process. So yes, I can argue that is a drastic leap with zero substance behind it.

after all The Bronze Age Spread out.

And predates the Minoans so again, if your logic is that the existence of Bronze smelting in Britain is a result of influence, then why pick the Minoans? They weren't the first to make bronze. Many, many other did so for 2 millennia prior to the Minoans

Its a Minoans Influence peter Valar

NOT Them Selves ..

It's neither and again, your inference can't be reached from the cited articles or any other material.

Vikings , Romans , as a brief example Adapted other Cultures into theirs
from the Divide and Conquered realm .

And there are records of such events. There is no evidence or record of Minoan presence (the original claim) let alone influence, in Britain. You haven't substantiated such an illogical leap of faith.

you just dont get it ,,

Apparently you did not bother reading the article .. so Ill place it here

The beginning of the Bronze Age in Britain can be put around 2,000 BC. Although not certain, it is generally thought that the new bronze tools and weapons identified with this age were brought over from continental Europe. The skulls recovered from burial sites from the Bronze Age are different in shape from Stone Age skulls. This would suggest that new ideas and new blood were brought over from the continent. Stone and bronze can be used together, subject to the availability of both materials. True bronze is a combination of 10% tin and 90% copper. Both materials were readily available in Britain at this time. Image showing the island of Crete which was the centre for the expansion of the bronze trade Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece. There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

www.bbc.co.uk...

The Beaker people Image of two Bronze Age drinking beakers It is widely thought, although not certain, that bronze was first brought over to Britain by the Bell Beaker folk. They were so named because of their distinctive bell-shaped pottery drinking vessels. They probably came up through the south-west coast of Britain, which at the time had rich deposits of copper and tin. The Bell Beaker folk readily mixed with any new culture they encountered, including the Neolithic farmers they found in Britain, and Bell beakers have been found in megalithic tombs, with the henge temples of the Neolithics.

The emergence of the Beaker people in Britain gave rise to what is now termed the Wessex Culture. This is the name given to a number of very rich grave goods under round barrows in southern Britain. The grave goods include well made stone battle axes, metal daggers with elaborately decorated hilts, and precious ornaments of gold and amber - these are some of the loveliest prehistoric objects ever to be found in Britain. Among the golden cups found in the graves, some were found that were so like those of the Mycenae that they are used as examples to prove the existence of trade between Wessex and Greece.

www.bbc.co.uk...

if your logic is that the existence of Bronze smelting in Britain is a result of influence, then why pick the Minoans? They weren't the first to make bronze. Many, many other did so for 2 millennia prior to the Minoans

K I agree with you there , ... It may just has too do with the first culture they were Trading with pehaps
same notion as why the Vikings mostly trade with the Middle East ..

Again..

The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece. There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.[

www.bbc.co.uk...

Sporadic objects of Mycenaean manufacture were found in various distant locations, like in Central Europe,[105] such as in Bavaria, Germany, where an amber object inscribed with Linear B symbols has been unearthed.[106] Mycenaean bronze double axes and other objects dating from the 13th century BC have been found in Ireland and in Wessex and Cornwall in England.

en.wikipedia.org...


ohhh boy Again,,,

Mycenaean Civilization
www.ancient.eu...

The Mycenaean civilization flourished in the late Bronze Age, from the 15th to the 13th century BCE and extended its influence not only throughout the Peloponnese in Greece but also across the Aegean, in particular, on Crete and the Cycladic islands.The Mycenaeans were influenced by the earlier Minoan civilization (2000-1450 BCE) which had spread from its origins at Knossos, Crete to include the wider Aegean. Architecture, art and religious practices were assimilated and adapted to better express the perhaps more militaristic and austere Mycenaean culture.

simplified

The Mycenaeans were influenced by the earlier Minoan civilization (2000-1450 BCE) which had spread from its origins at Knossos,

Presence influence , influence presences , thin line of define ...

HA


Follow the yellow brick road Dorothy

a reply to: Wolfenz

This is what happens when you find a single source that fits the narrative in your head and then neglect due diligence to see if the information presented is accurate. It gets dates incorrect like stating that the Bronze Age didn't begin in Britain until 2000 BCE when it started at least 200 and as much as 500 years earlier.

The article also makes assumptions that aren't substantiated such as the bell beaker culture bringing Minoan bronze to Britain despite Bell Beaker being a Chalcolithic culture who were in Britain prior to the first use of Bronze there. There are zero Minoan bronze artifacts in Britain. Not one. And the Minoans, while making exquisite goods out of Bronze, weren't even close to the first to use it. Mesopotamia, Egypt, Indus Valley... Just to name a few, were working in Bronze hundreds of years before the Minoans.

Direct trade and contact with the Mycenaeans is well documented. There is no documented evidence of Minoan trade, presence, artifacts or anything else related to them in Britain. You are drawing a conclusion that isn't supported by creating a strawman analogy between Minoan influence on Mycenaean Greeks and insisting that this means there was a. Minoan influence on Britain and therefore there was a Minoan presence in Britain. It's illogical and not at all supported by evidence or the BBC article that is devoid of a single citation and that alone is suspect.

Lots of people worked Bronze. Bell Beaker people worked copper. Copper and Tin are both abundant in Britain. The only thin line here is the one you're using to tie Minoans with Britain's use of bronze.

One last time... The use of Bronze in Britain isn't evidence of Minoan influence let alone presence. You have zero evidence so go reexamine your yellow brick road.

a reply to: peter vlar

im just going to skip the rest of it , seeing your not following .

whatso ever..

but for this ...

Direct trade and contact with the Mycenaeans is well documented. There is no documented evidence of Minoan trade

right well Documented for sure ....


ahhh..... what did the Mycenaean Traded with ?? adapted from , influenced from ?
MINOANS .. is the claim

and next where did BBC get their Information as too where these Ancient Russians that settled near Crete
Mycenaean Crete ,, and the claimed evidence of Mycenaean Weapons in upper Europe like Germany too Ireland

yes there is other sites claiming the same thing , i just posted some links of interest ..

sorry Im just a researcher ,

not a archaeologist or a Geologist ..

are you?

hell do i have too make a time line here ?

not so hard to understand ...

rather argue with me instead of BBC or Ancient History Encyclopedia

ahh .. ok then ...

telling me they are wrong .
where you should tell the Main source they are wrong...

yes lot of People made Bronze in Europe , and where did it all Start??

Im using just Links that are saying the tie ins of Minoans influence in Britain

what about proving that the Mycenaean's that was influenced from the Minoans
which these site are claiming , were not involved in the Britain Bronze Age..
but claims of evidence of Weapons are from the Mycenaean's which could of been
from Trades too Old Britian and Trade Routes ,

as your saying NO evidence ..


Well Argue with this now Peter Vlar
make sure you read it ..

DNA reveals origin of Greece's ancient Minoan culture 15 May 2013
www.bbc.com...

your serve..

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte
Whatever.
What was actually said was that the Minoans had a "heavy presence in Britain."

The Minoans didn't even have a light presence in Britain, as far as I know.
Which is why I asked for a link to this information of Minoans present in ancient Britain.

Harte

and I did ..... ...... for the Presence of Influence

if you want to have a Debate and tell BBC they are Wrong .. go for it

Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece. There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

Bronze Age Britain

Around 4,000 years ago the Bronze Age came to Britain. This was the crucial period that linked the Stone Age with the Iron Age, and during which it seems new people came in from continental Europe. What did the newcomers bring to these islands?

www.bbc.co.uk...

As the BBC says nothing about any Minoan presence, why do you insist we argue with the BBC?

My response was to the claim that there was a heavy presence of Minoans in Britain.

Now, I know the English language as well as anyone. I know what "presence" means, and it doesn't mean "influence."

If the poster has misstated what he meant, let him say so.

I was interested to see any evidence for a Minoan presence (heavy or otherwise) in Britain, so I asked for a link, and I got your argumentative post in response about something entirely different from what was stated in the post I replied to.

Harte

Ohh boy ...

Presence , Meaning as they feel they had been there,,

Influence of another Culture that Adapted their ways ..

simple as that Harte ..

There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life

www.bbc.co.uk...

Ohh boy ...



No presence , meaning no Minoans in Britain.



Your quote from the link is referring to the Myceaneans. Were they from Britain?


simple as that Wolfenz ..

Harte

originally posted by: Wolfenz
a reply to: peter vlar

im just going to skip the rest of it , seeing your not following .

whatso ever..

I think it's you who isn't following. And don't worry, I doubt you could follow along if they tied you to a sled and dragged you behind it so my expectations were low.

but for this ...

Direct trade and contact with the Mycenaeans is well documented. There is no documented evidence of Minoan trade

right well Documented for sure ....


ahhh..... what did the Mycenaean Traded with ?? adapted from , influenced from ?
MINOANS .. is the claim

It's a little more than a claim, there actual physical evidence.

and next where did BBC get their Information as too where these Ancient Russians that settled near Crete
Mycenaean Crete ,, and the claimed evidence of Mycenaean Weapons in upper Europe like Germany too Ireland

yes there is other sites claiming the same thing , i just posted some links of interest ..

sorry Im just a researcher ,

not a archaeologist or a Geologist ..

are you?

Actually you smug fool, I'm an anthropologist. Maybe you should research the English language while you're at it so that your posts make some sort of sense and have some cognizant sentence structure because as it is, they make less sense than my 4th grade child's homework.

hell do i have too make a time line here ?

Please do and then review it.

not so hard to understand ...

rather argue with me instead of BBC or Ancient History Encyclopedia

I'm arguing with your lack of logic and half assed interpretation of data to fit in with your insane degree of cognitive dissonance and self aggrandizement confirmation bias.

ahh .. ok then ...

telling me they are wrong .
where you should tell the Main source they are wrong...

You haven't read the main sources, you're reading a truncated online encyclopedia and BBC articles, not the papers that they base their information off of. I've read the papers. Get over yourself and your bizarre sense of self importance.

yes lot of People made Bronze in Europe , and where did it all Start??

We've gone over this, Mesopotamia.

Im using just Links that are saying the tie ins of Minoans influence in Britain

what about proving that the Mycenaean's that was influenced from the Minoans
which these site are claiming , were not involved in the Britain Bronze Age..

If you were any sort of actual researcher and not an armchair google warrior, you would already know that in science, we don't prove a negative. It's up to you to provide evidence to support your position. The original tirade that begat this was involving Minoan PRESENCE in Bronze Age Britain. You haven't shown that and are instead hanging on to some odd need to be correct no matter how wrong you actually are.

but claims of evidence of Weapons are from the Mycenaean's which could of been
from Trades too Old Britian and Trade Routes ,

Stop moving the goal posts and provide evidence of Minoan PRESENCE in Britain per the original inquiry by Harte. Nobody is going to hold their breath because you don't have that evidence because it doesn't exist. Hell, provide evidence of a Mycenaean presence in Britain if you want while we are at it. Mediterranean Bronze in Germany isn't evidence of Minoans physically being in Britain.

as your saying NO evidence ..

Correct, you've provided no evidence to support Minoans on Britain. Thanks for acknowledging that finally.

Well Argue with this now Peter Vlar
make sure you read it ..

DNA reveals origin of Greece's ancient Minoan culture 15 May 2013
www.bbc.com...

your serve..

I don't need to read an article that only gives part of the story. I've read the actual paper that it was based on. As a self professed researcher, you should really update your skill set because if you wanted actual answers, you wouldn't rely on a singular source, BBC online, you would look at every possible source you could find. The bottom line is that the study only looked at MtDNA and excluded yDNA or nuclear DNA. So, as the researchers who did the study state themselves, the data is as incomplete as your thesis that Minoans were present in Britain. You're grasping at straws and reaching far beyond your skill set.

a reply to: peter vlar

WOW


Slander- Name calling and Bashing , is what all you got?

Ill Keep an eye on you Vlar..

and for your Profession of anthropologist.

and having a fit on a what you say of what I am is
Armchair Warrior is even more comical..



OF COURSE there is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE !! of Minoan's that Ventured too Britain!!

i think i kinda Stated that !!!!!!!

You have stuck in your Head that
I am Claiming there the Had been Minoans that Had Physically Been there!!
in Britain,

Although from the Last Article i have Posted
Mentions that DNA evidence that they were in France ..

all from the Word Presence .. LOL wow

Depend what Presence Means

a person or thing that exists or is present in a place but is not seen.
..


Same thing but placed on the Washington University Site ..
Now what even post it if its not accurate
Speaking of which , How bout linking me the main source article.

DNA analysis unearths origins of Minoans, the first major European civilization

Stephanie Seiler
UW Health Sciences & UW Medicine
www.washington.edu...

so now you as a Anthropologist, are going to say that the Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically linked?

Importantly, the findings disprove the widely held theory that the Mycenaeans were a foreign population in the Aegean and were not related to the Minoans. The results also dispel the theory that modern Greeks did not descend from the Mycenaeans and later ancient Greek populations. It shows that there was genetic continuity in the Aegean from the time of the first farmers to present-day Greece, but not in isolation. The peoples of the Greek mainland also bred with ancient North Eurasians and peoples of the Eastern European steppe, both before and after the time of the Minoans and Mycenaeans. This may provide the missing link between Greek speakers and their linguistic relatives elsewhere in Europe and Asia.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

anthrogenica.com
Genetic-origins-of-the-Minoans-and-Mycenaeans
www.anthrogenica.com...

as a Anthropoligist what do you see ?
I see the Minoean and the Mycenaean Very closely related

Lazaridis et al. 2017 ADMIXTURE run
drive.google.com...



link me.. Educate me.. of what your trying to prove , give me evidence of the facts ..
all i can go by is what i can find as this Armchair Research Warrior is all i can go by !

find a legit link too disprove .. or you are just Trolling ... is what the HELL is SEE ..

k so im not a Grammar King , so what..



Grabbing at Straws .. for my Pipe Dream LOL

Britain in contact with Ancient Greek Mycenaeans since at least 1500 BC
www.historydisclosure.com...

Ancient civilizations did not exist in isolation. The reach of the ancient Greeks towards the west is far older and broader than what popular opinion assumes. Two artefacts found in Cornwall (south-western tip of Britain) provide evidence that the inhabitants of Britain were in contact with the ancient Greek Mycenaeans. The Mycenaean civilization existed between 1600 and 1100 BC. Available artifacts are the Rillaton Cup and the Pellynt Dagger. The Rillaton Cup resembles similar findings from Mycenae which suggests trade contacts and cultural exchanges The age of the cup is estimated to lie around 1700 BC. The Pellynt Dagger does not resemble any finding local to British Bronze Age armoury. However, it is an exact match with daggers found in Mycenae and other Greek locations (1). Dating of the artefact ranges from the 1400 to 1200 BC. The above artefacts are just two findings that prove that Ancient Greeks were in contact with European populations much before the times presented by mainstream history.

Proceedings of the Prehistoric Society. Bronze Dagger of Mycenaen type from Pelynt, Cornwall. Vol 17, Issue 1, January 1951 p. 95

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Wolfenz

originally posted by: Harte
Whatever.
What was actually said was that the Minoans had a "heavy presence in Britain."

The Minoans didn't even have a light presence in Britain, as far as I know.
Which is why I asked for a link to this information of Minoans present in ancient Britain.

Harte

and I did ..... ...... for the Presence of Influence

if you want to have a Debate and tell BBC they are Wrong .. go for it

Before its entry into Britain, the Bronze Age was in full swing in Europe.The island of Crete was centre for the expansion of the bronze trade to Europe. The Mycenaeans created the finest bronze weapons. They came from southern Russia at around 2,000 BC, and settled in the lowlands of Greece. There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

Bronze Age Britain

Around 4,000 years ago the Bronze Age came to Britain. This was the crucial period that linked the Stone Age with the Iron Age, and during which it seems new people came in from continental Europe. What did the newcomers bring to these islands?

www.bbc.co.uk...

As the BBC says nothing about any Minoan presence, why do you insist we argue with the BBC?

My response was to the claim that there was a heavy presence of Minoans in Britain.

Now, I know the English language as well as anyone. I know what "presence" means, and it doesn't mean "influence."

If the poster has misstated what he meant, let him say so.

I was interested to see any evidence for a Minoan presence (heavy or otherwise) in Britain, so I asked for a link, and I got your argumentative post in response about something entirely different from what was stated in the post I replied to.

Harte

Ohh boy ...

Presence , Meaning as they feel they had been there,,

Influence of another Culture that Adapted their ways ..

simple as that Harte ..

There they began to trade with the Minoans. They built a large navy, and began to attack nearby lands. Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life, and eventually, around 1,400 BC, became the major power in the Aegean Sea.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Over time they adapted to the Minoan way of life

www.bbc.co.uk...

Ohh boy ...



No presence , meaning no Minoans in Britain.



Your quote from the link is referring to the Myceaneans. Were they from Britain?


simple as that Wolfenz ..

Harte

Harte this

This Debate is from what the original Poster claimed there was a Presence of Minoan Culture in Britain

although there is claims of Mycenaean Artifacts in Ireland and Spain and France..

which the Mycenaean are closely related too the Minoans Genetically linked that is

well according too BBC the Mycenaean came from what is now Russia,, Ancient Europe anyhow .

but for the Word Presence of Minoan Culture , in relation too the Mycenaean's
sure .. i can Buy that ...

Peter Vlar is Beating a Dead Horse ..

He is Right.. there no Physically Evidence of a Minoans being in Europe ( physically )

but for Mycenaean there is , although it may be from Traders & Travelers to the Area


He may of Miss understood me.. Im not the Perfect Typist nor a Grammar King as you well know ..

but Slandering , Ridiculing & Bashing me , isnt going too help the matter ..