Professor draws ire for saying students will have to work hard

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
meaning the physical sciences are more labour intensive than other Cambridge courses. Pretty obvious in my eyes that some degrees are harder than the arts.

If you think arts are easy, you've never been in a professional art class. I like to tell horror stories all the time about some of the hell classes I've been through related to programming/game dev. They're literally nothing compared to what I went through for my art degree. They make 40 hours a week of homework on one class look easy.

I've had professors who demand 100 hours/week on art assignments. Professors who will only ok you into their class if you're taking just one of their classes and 9 or fewer credit hours in total, again who refuse to allow you to work while studying.

Properly taught art is quite difficult.

This is SO true!! People have no idea. You stop thinking about homework in terms of hours-- in Arts, it becomes days , weeks or months.
After my 4th day of working straight through until 4:30 in the morning, only to race to the showers, gulp down a cup of coffee with a fistful of vitamins, and go to work for 6 hours before hitting the studio again--I remember thinking .. 'I wonder if I can go home this weekend?' It just becomes a blur after awhile. My family would laugh when I would ask..'wait... what's the date? where did last week end?!" Totally had no clue. The great part is all the artists are in the same boat, so you really learn to help each other through problems that come up.

anywho-- yes, I feel like young people today have no real substance. Can't imagine what the future holds for us all after being around this lot. Yee

a reply to: Aazadan

Those wern't my words but the quote from the article - I dont understand your point

originally posted by: Indigent

Physical sciences is a VERY hard subject, which will require ALL of your attention and your FULL brain capacity (and for a large fraction of you, even that will not be quite enough)

It's one thing to say you need to work hard and another to say you are most likely doomed anyways even if you give your all, there is no reason to put more stress on people that are basically deers in headlights unless you are a sadist.

If most will fail anyways save that comment and just encourage them to do their best, or do you like to tell cows heading to the slaughterhouse they will die.

Look at it like a disclaimer, so he doesn't get sued when they don't pass and say they didn't know how hard it was when they signed up for it.

a reply to: Metallicus

It used to be a source of pride to attend a school or college with a high drop-out rate and succeed.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Metallicus

...he suggested undergraduates will have to work hard and abstain from drinking to pass the course.

Oh, is this like an alcohol ban?

Legislating morality never works.

If he's implying they might need to spend more time studying than partying,

Implied nothing-- "Abstain to Pass".

that's not legislating morality,

Yes it is. Why he drew the "Ire". Students aren't stupid , they weren't "Ire-d" by being told to work hard. They were peeved he "suggested" they stop drinking too, to pass.

ab·stained, ab·stain·ing, ab·stains. 1. To keep oneself from doing, engaging in, or partaking of something; refrain: abstain from partisan political rhetoric; abstain from drinking alcohol. 2. To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.

Prohibition didn't' work either.

Fat, drunk and stupid is not the way to go through life.

Who said that?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ScepticScot
And are they telling students that they should have no life outwith studying?

Yes, actually. They don't enforce it, but they highly suggest it. And given the difficulty of the program they're absolutely correct in doing so.

Well if they are they are setting the students up to fail. People aren't designed to study 100% of the time.

There is a very valid reason why universities have do many social and extra curricular clubs and societies.

This is the typical liberal mind-set today. Hard work = slavery. The government should just provide everything to everyone. It's appealing, sit back and smoke weed all day, and the government will write you a check. Liberals are too dumb, or self-absorbed, to realize that the check they receive comes from the back of hard-working citizens. When enough citizens decide to sponge off the tit, the system collapses, that is what we are seeing begin to happen. That's why communism is, and always will be a failure.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Metallicus

...he suggested undergraduates will have to work hard and abstain from drinking to pass the course.

Oh, is this like an alcohol ban?

Legislating morality never works.

If he's implying they might need to spend more time studying than partying,

Implied nothing-- "Abstain to Pass".

that's not legislating morality,

Yes it is. Why he drew the "Ire". Students aren't stupid , they weren't "Ire-d" by being told to work hard. They were peeved he "suggested" they stop drinking too, to pass.

ab·stained, ab·stain·ing, ab·stains. 1. To keep oneself from doing, engaging in, or partaking of something; refrain: abstain from partisan political rhetoric; abstain from drinking alcohol. 2. To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.

Prohibition didn't' work either.

Fat, drunk and stupid is not the way to go through life.

Who said that?

"--not the way to go thru life, Son."

Dean Wormer.

Then he called the local draft board and turned them in to go to Vietnam.

What a prick.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Metallicus

...he suggested undergraduates will have to work hard and abstain from drinking to pass the course.

Oh, is this like an alcohol ban?

Legislating morality never works.

If he's implying they might need to spend more time studying than partying,

Implied nothing-- "Abstain to Pass".

that's not legislating morality,

Yes it is. Why he drew the "Ire". Students aren't stupid , they weren't "Ire-d" by being told to work hard. They were peeved he "suggested" they stop drinking too, to pass.

ab·stained, ab·stain·ing, ab·stains. 1. To keep oneself from doing, engaging in, or partaking of something; refrain: abstain from partisan political rhetoric; abstain from drinking alcohol. 2. To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.

Prohibition didn't' work either.

Fat, drunk and stupid is not the way to go through life.

Who said that?

"--not the way to go thru life, Son."

Dean Wormer.

Then he called the local draft board and turned them in to go to Vietnam.

What a prick.

Oh yeah, Wormer. Couldn't remember his name. thanks!

Nam? didn't remember that part at all! TOGA!

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Metallicus

...he suggested undergraduates will have to work hard and abstain from drinking to pass the course.

Oh, is this like an alcohol ban?

Legislating morality never works.

If he's implying they might need to spend more time studying than partying,

Implied nothing-- "Abstain to Pass".

that's not legislating morality,

Yes it is. Why he drew the "Ire". Students aren't stupid , they weren't "Ire-d" by being told to work hard. They were peeved he "suggested" they stop drinking too, to pass.

ab·stained, ab·stain·ing, ab·stains. 1. To keep oneself from doing, engaging in, or partaking of something; refrain: abstain from partisan political rhetoric; abstain from drinking alcohol. 2. To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.

Prohibition didn't' work either.

Fat, drunk and stupid is not the way to go through life.

Who said that?

"--not the way to go thru life, Son."

Dean Wormer.

Then he called the local draft board and turned them in to go to Vietnam.

What a prick.

Oh yeah, Wormer. Couldn't remember his name. thanks!

Nam? didn't remember that part at all! TOGA!

That was the implication during the Vietnam War era, if you were expelled from college you got drafted. College Admin. was required to report expulsions by law to the draft board.

Today's different, but not really. If you don't have a degree and a job, the prospects are dumb waiter or Service. Larger population base to pull from nowadays, too.

1:28 into here--

a reply to: Metallicus

Let's just give everyone an A for their mental well-being.

a reply to: Jiggly

the future of murica is bleak

sorry your murica bashing is for naught, this is in the UK at their Cambridge University

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Aazadan

Those wern't my words but the quote from the article - I dont understand your point

My point was that there's classes like that. Not every class, but some professors are hardasses, and some majors have more of those professors than others. Universities are even well known for sprinkling a few weed out classes into the early classes in various majors.

Likely, because I've been through it... and worse, I don't have a problem with it. In an ideal world professors wouldn't set their students up for failure but sometimes there really is a lot of very basic knowledge one needs to learn in a short amount of time in order to succeed in a subject and that leads to classes like this.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It used to be a source of pride to attend a school or college with a high drop-out rate and succeed.

I've done this very thing. Not because of pride, I was just genuinely curious if I was good enough. The program I'm in now, which I'll finish next semester has a 4% graduation rate. The college itself has a general graduation rate of 17%. My previous school was 12%.

What I learned from that is that I'm not half as smart as I used to think I was, since I routinely come in towards the bottom of the students that will graduate. I actually remember when I started my current program, I legitimately believed I was at least somewhat capable. I had just graduated a program that felt easy for me and I was the valedictorian. Then I hit something that was actually challenging. Within the end of the first semester I legitimately felt stupid, and by the end of the second semester any semblance of self confidence was destroyed. I'll probably never feel pride in having gotten through it when it's over, more likely just a continuing feeling of inadequacy as I realize how little of the material I actually know, and the realization that for as hard as the material and classes are... the professors could have made it 100x harder had they wished.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Well if they are they are setting the students up to fail. People aren't designed to study 100% of the time.

There is a very valid reason why universities have do many social and extra curricular clubs and societies.

Learn the material and you can stop studying. Or take an easy major.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It used to be a source of pride to attend a school or college with a high drop-out rate and succeed.

I've done this very thing. Not because of pride, I was just genuinely curious if I was good enough. The program I'm in now, which I'll finish next semester has a 4% graduation rate. The college itself has a general graduation rate of 17%. My previous school was 12%.

What I learned from that is that I'm not half as smart as I used to think I was, since I routinely come in towards the bottom of the students that will graduate. I actually remember when I started my current program, I legitimately believed I was at least somewhat capable. I had just graduated a program that felt easy for me and I was the valedictorian. Then I hit something that was actually challenging. Within the end of the first semester I legitimately felt stupid, and by the end of the second semester any semblance of self confidence was destroyed. I'll probably never feel pride in having gotten through it when it's over, more likely just a continuing feeling of inadequacy as I realize how little of the material I actually know, and the realization that for as hard as the material and classes are... the professors could have made it 100x harder had they wished.

If your course really only has a 4% graduation rate and your college 17% then that means the course and college are failing.

The best universities have amongst the lowest drop out rates. The idea that a high failure rate is a indicator of quality is completely wrong.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
If your course really only has a 4% graduation rate and your college 17% then that means the course and college are failing.

The best universities have amongst the lowest drop out rates. The idea that a high failure rate is a indicator of quality is completely wrong.

Yes and no. Because if you go in the other direction a college that has a 100% pass rate and is subject to grade inflation is also failing. That's the problem that a lot of the top end schools have right now. You have to try very hard to fail in them.

Our course is actually ranked among the top 10 in the country for the program of study. The college itself is nothing special, right in the middle of Appalachian poverty, the failure rate for the college is average for the region. The program itself though has no entrance exams (neither does the college), therefore failure rates are a bit higher.

Sometimes low failure rates mean the program is too easy, other times it means the professors are good at teaching the material.

Sometimes high failure rates mean the program is too hard, other times it means that the program is prestigious. In our case, our failure rates are a little above average as most schools for the program hover around 10%, but we also don't have entrance exams to weed people out, so that's to be expected.

We've actually had companies come to our classes before and offer every single graduating member of a class a job sight unseen. No resumes, no interviews. Simply based on the strength of the program. The workload and the difficulty aren't fun, but it is effective. For the past 5 years (I don't know the average stats going back further than that) we've actually ended up with a 100% job placement rate within a year of graduation. This year, there's still the remainder of fall semester, and then spring semester after that, and half our students already have industry jobs lined up. So I would argue that it's not failing. But, their good numbers rely on the fact that only the top 5% are even getting through it, so naturally those will be high performers.

Sounds to me like a professor trying to confront and correct the lazy, privileged and dumbed down society that we're producing nowadays. It seems to be a statement of disgust in todays youth, can't say I blame him one bit for his frustrations.

At most universities, the classes have become way too easy. A is now the most common grade issued -- I kid you not.

I remember when professors would try to chase all the deadbeats out of the class by dropping a couple of heinous pop quizzes during the first two weeks of class and talking about how hard everything was going to be. Then, by the time the faint of heart left, the instructor let up and actually focused on instilling knowledge in the ones that stuck it out.

Sounds like we've got some serious a-holes taking classes these days.

a reply to: Aazadan

I went to the Art Institutes in Denver,the academics were EASY,you can look all you need up(Math is a mute point as I will never pass any course in my life) and word it yourself.
I failed because I have trouble with programs and learning them,so the VA cancelled my chapter 31 authorization,I 'd take too long and the school ignored my requests to record the classes.
I think my brain gap affects algorithmic things,I'LL never know.
I COULDN'T believe these ASSHOLE kids and their CELLPHONES and the way the fashion majors dressed like they were working CORNERS that night and OPEN shirts on ladies.