Say hi to the Z-20, the so-called Copyhawk, being tested in Tibet

originally posted by: E92M3
I've never understood why people bash and claim the Chinese copy things.

I would eat my shoes/underwear if a single component or part were interchangeable with a US built Blackhawk.

So if there are no parts that were copied/fit or are compatible how is it a copy? Sure they look the same but looks don't mean squat.

They still had to do all the R&D, they still had to designed everything from the ground up test it, create avionics software etc.

Any thoughts? Genuinely curious.

You want fries with your shoes/underwear? The Chinese don't do R&D. They hack their way into government and contractor computers to steal proprietary technology.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

They still have to do R&D to develop the techniques to build whatever it is. But they're using outside sources to shortcut the process. What took us 20 years to develop takes them half the time, because they already know some of the steps, and all they're developing is the process to build it.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
that's the thing with Chinese junk, looks fairly good and close to the real thing. but doesn't hold up.
willing to bet that is the same in their military equipment. first off their specs and standards aren't really all that tight.

I have a Norinco 1911 .45 auto that is a perfect copy of a 1911. even down to the heat treat.

I have put a number of aftermarket parts on it, and they fit perfect without any fitting.

I always wondered how many guns found in Mexico that the US government claims came from the US were made in China and had US markings on them and were sent to the cartels by china just to try to get gun bans here in the US.

i say this because i can find NO EVIDENCE that the US government tries to track down who bought the weapons and how they got to mexico if they are US weapons. except for sting operations by the US government. fast and furious. is one.

maybe the US government knows a large number of them are clones from china and hiding the fact.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie


"engineers went to the plant, and found that the employees who were assembling the crank and piston rods when putting them on didn't go down right would take a hammer and beat them down, instead of turning the around so that they fit properly"



Pretty sure I know at least one of the 'brands' involved.

Hammering went on for several years before being discovered.

a reply to: anzha

It’s all fun and games until things start throwing blades and breaking up in flight due to sub par metallurgy and rotor components.

Cant wait til they start making a Osprey tilt rotor, that’s going to be fun to watch.

here's an interesting stealthy version of Z-20

defence.pk...

a reply to: SuperSuperSoldier
Blades need more silicon implants..Do they have a dedicated radar range or they just getting cues off "Zero Dark 30"?

a reply to: SuperSuperSoldier

A few pics in there. A 4 prop fighter?

a reply to: grey580

That deserves its own thread, tbh.

You should know American Weiner an Hamburgers( an pretty much everything else(tanks, chemwarfare, flamethrowers, rockets, submarines, possibly the first fighter jets an bombers if I remember, an I think one of their guys mentioned remote control) is from Germany...the U.S just payed for it.


Einstein German too...FYI.

a reply to: Specimen88

There was a lot of parallel evolution going on around WWII. The US, and other countries, used some German technology to improve what they had on hand after the war, but during the war, there was a lot of parallel evolution happening. The Germans had the first operational jet fighter, and several jet bombers that were designed, but the UK, and US both had jets in service before the war ended. Remote control was used to fly bombers loaded with explosives into hardened targets during the war.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Germany used the Fritz X first.First cruise missiles were the V1.First intercontinental missile V2.First ground to air Missile,Wasserfall.All German.
Yes the first RC "plane" were Mistel configuration, old Ju88,s with a piggyback Me109 or Fw190 fighter up top.USA did muck around with RC guided air to ground missiles late in the war using B17,s.
Both Whittle in the Uk,and Bell in the USA along with the Yak15 by the Soviets produced Jet aircraft during WW2.

a reply to: Blackfinger

The first jet engine built in the US was built by GE, using Frank Whittle's designs. The I-A first flew in 1942. If you go back to 1935, you have Frank Whittle in the UK, and Pabst yon Ohain in Germany both working on viable designs for turbojet engines, and Vladimir Pavlecka in the US working on a gas turbine engine that he wanted to use on aircraft. Whittle was sent to Cambridge, Ohain was hired by Heinkel, and Pavlecka's design was studied by Pratt and MIT who both said it wouldn't work and weren't interested in it, despite having a head start. They ended up with the German engine starting in March 1937, and the UK engine in April. Pavlecka developed all kinds of things, such as flush rivets, hexagonal stop nuts, and self sealing fuel tanks.

And yes, the Germans did help develop a number of technologies, for both the Soviet Union and the US. But there was a LOT of parallel development going on at the time. Such as the flying wing. There were so many countries working on them at the time, to varying degrees, that it wasn't funny. But you always hear how the B-2 was based on the Horton design, and not about how Northrop was already flying powered demonstrators at the time they were testing a glider.

a reply to: Specimen88

you stand corrected sir,

links below, most are wiki's cause their fast.

first jet engine patent was issued to,

Sir Frank Whittle's Turbojet Concept Sir Frank Whittle was an English aviation engineer and pilot who joined the Royal Air Force as an apprentice, later becoming a test pilot in 1931. Whittle was only 22 when he first thought to use a gas turbine engine to power an airplane. The young officer tried unsuccessfully to obtain official support for the study and development of his ideas but was ultimately forced to pursue his research on his own initiative. He received his first patent on turbojet propulsion in January 1930. Armed with this patent, Whittle again sought funding to develop a prototype; this time successfully. He began construction of his first engine in 1935 -- a single-stage centrifugal compressor coupled to a single-stage turbine. What was meant to be only a laboratory test rig was successfully bench-tested in April 1937, effectively demonstrating the feasibility of the turbojet concept. Power Jets Ltd. -- the firm with which Whittle was associated -- received a contract for a Whittle engine known as the W1 on July 7, 1939. In February 1940, the Gloster Aircraft Company was chosen to develop the Pioneer, the small engine aircraft the W1 engine was earmarked to power; the historic first flight of the Pioneer took place on May 15, 1941. The modern turbojet engine used today in many British and American aircraft is based on the prototype invented by Whittle.
The History of the Jet Engine

the first working submarine was invented by a Dutchman, unless you want to count the first design that is not clear if it was ever tested or Alexander The Great's use of diving bells.



History of submarines

first tank was British, unless you want to go back to Leonardo da Vinci, or the the use of armoured wagons with cannons mounted on them.

History of the tank

first remote patent was a American named Tesla might have heard of him,

In 1898, Nikola Tesla filed his patent, U.S. Patent 613,809, named Method of an Apparatus for Controlling Mechanism of Moving Vehicle or Vehicles, which he publicly demonstrated by radio-controlling a boat during an electrical exhibition at Madison Square Garden. Tesla called his boat a "teleautomaton".[8]
Remote control

first rockets were Chinese.
History of rockets

all the Germans did was take existing ideas and technology and improve on it. something that would have happened eventually.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
a reply to: Zaphod58
Germany used the Fritz X first.First cruise missiles were the V1.First intercontinental missile V2.First ground to air Missile,Wasserfall.All German.
Yes the first RC "plane" were Mistel configuration, old Ju88,s with a piggyback Me109 or Fw190 fighter up top.USA did muck around with RC guided air to ground missiles late in the war using B17,s.
Both Whittle in the Uk,and Bell in the USA along with the Yak15 by the Soviets produced Jet aircraft during WW2.

The Yak-15 was actually built after World War II, created by fitting a Yak-3 with a captured German jet engine (the Americans overran the Junkers Jumo factory in Magdeburg weeks before Hitler's suicide, and the Soviets eventually entered the Junkers facilities in July, giving the Yakovlev Design Bureau the liberty to using the Jumo 004 to power the Yak-15). The MiG-9 was fitted with a captured German turbojet as well, but the BMW 003 and Jumo 004 were outdated, and Rolls-Royce was developing newer jet engines like the Nene and Derwent, so the MiG design bureau decided to use a British turbojet for the MiG-15, which was actually based on the MiG-8 swept wing liaison aircraft and not the Focke-Wulf Ta 183 as claimed in many publications.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: E92M3
I've never understood why people bash and claim the Chinese copy things.

I would eat my shoes/underwear if a single component or part were interchangeable with a US built Blackhawk.

So if there are no parts that were copied/fit or are compatible how is it a copy? Sure they look the same but looks don't mean squat.

They still had to do all the R&D, they still had to designed everything from the ground up test it, create avionics software etc.

Any thoughts? Genuinely curious.

You want fries with your shoes/underwear? The Chinese don't do R&D. They hack their way into government and contractor computers to steal proprietary technology.

The Z-20 helicopter was creating by reverse-engineering Sikorsky S-70C-2 helicopters that were delivered to China in 1984 for use by the People's Liberation Army Air Force (any further sale of the S-70C-2 was halted after the US and EU embargoed all arms sales to China following the crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrations in Tiananmen Square in 1989). Harbin is also reportedly working on a stealthy Z-20 variant by reverse-engineering the Blackhawk helicopter used by US Navy SEALs to kill Osama bin Laden and to which Pakistan allowed China access given Pakistan's close bilateral military ties with China.

Link:
en.wikipedia.org...