The Military Is Reporting Almost No Domestic Abusers to the Main Gun Background Check Database

A year before committing Sunday’s mass shooting at a tight-knit church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Devin Kelley walked into a sporting goods store and bought a Ruger assault-style rifle that he should have been banned from owning because of his history of domestic violence. An agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Kelley had lawfully bought two more guns that were found in his car after the massacre.

In a statement, the Air Force said that Kelley’s records were never reported to the databases on which the FBI’s background check system relies.

The answer may lie in differences between how civilian courts and the U.S. military, in which Kelley had previously served, treat domestic violence, and how each submits abusers’ records for gun background checks.

Source

So while the Air Force tries to act like Kelley's ability to buy a gun was a clerical error, apparently it turns out it's a much more widespread issue.

Looking at the NICS Index, the DOD (total active duty military: 1.2 million) apparently only has one employee on there due to domestic violence. In comparison New Hampshire (population: ~1.3 million) has about 14,000 on the NICS due to domestic violence.

The cause for this vast discrepancy is that the military doesn't have a distinct charge for domestic violence. Instead it is generally prosecuted as assault. Which if it isn't a felony does not restrict a person's ability to buy a gun.

So, while the Air Force continues to act like the shooting in Texas was due to an oversight; out turns out that it is actually due to a widespread issue with the way the military prosecutes crimes. Which may explain the Air Force's reaction. If they can get people to believe of was a simple error, no changes need to be made. If it comes out that the issue is endemic in the military legal system then the system needs to be completely overhauled.

a reply to: Xcalibur254


The reason is there is no law requiring the Armed Forces to report to the NCIS! Blame the lawmakers!

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Xcalibur254


The reason is there is no law requiring the Armed Forces to report to the NCIS! Blame the lawmakers!

For some reason I thought it was supposed to go to the FBI by law, which should get it in the database. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet their lack of reporting is all about public perception. They don't want numbers getting out.

a reply to: Xcalibur254


People who shouldn't own guns for any reason:

Domestic Abusers
Those who committed self harm
rapists
and anyone else with a history of violence.

The Military need to change their system asap or else there will be more shootings.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Xcalibur254


The reason is there is no law requiring the Armed Forces to report to the NCIS! Blame the lawmakers!

For some reason I thought it was supposed to go to the FBI by law, which should get it in the database. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet their lack of reporting is all about public perception. They don't want numbers getting out.

Trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in todays society can be difficult..Not enough time in the day to try and track down the TRUTH anymore.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Xcalibur254


The reason is there is no law requiring the Armed Forces to report to the NCIS! Blame the lawmakers!

This is true, but it’s also true the military needs to update the punitive articles in the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) to reflect civilian crimes (if they’re going to prosecute) instead of trying to fit them into what already exists. Though I retired in 2004 from active duty, even then it sometimes didn’t make sense what the JAG (military DA) would use as charges against military members because the committed crime wasn’t specifically outlined in the UCMJ. JAG must use the punitive articles of UCMJ, and the elements of the offense therein,for the alleged crime referred for courts-martial. They cannot use civilian laws. Some crimes are specifically left to local DAs because there is no way to prosecute under the UCMJ. The UCMJ doesn’t get updated very often...it probably should be updated every few years instead of decades...

a reply to: Lab4Us


Very true! There is a big difference in laws and punishment from the military to civilian world.

The dishonorable discharge should have prevented him from purchasing a firearm period.

The domestic violence charge is completely irrelevant. DV cases can be misdemeanors and/or felonies broken down into sub classes. Who cares.

The dishonorable discharge, regardless for what, should have stopped the purchase.

a reply to: EternalShadow

He wasn't dishonorably discharged. He had a bad conduct discharge. On the other hand, even a misdemeanor domestic violence charge will prevent someone from owning a gun.

Huh? I would think that they would list events like that. Soldiers, like prison guards, are often stressed, but major assaults should be reported. I can see minor events and verbal abuse not being reported, but violent ones should be reported.

I mention prison guards because I know a few and some are all wired up when they get home. They get spit on and sometimes urine or crap thrown at them by prisoners sometimes. They take verbal abuse and cannot touch the prisoners. So they take it home. They tend to be crabby but their wives understand. I would suspect that sometimes in the military, especially in boot camp, some of that goes on. I understand, even though I do not approve of it, I do understand what these people are going through.

This guy was thrown in jail for a long time in the military because his assault was very violent. His records should have been listed on the database.

There was way more wrong with Devin Kelley than his domestic abuse charge.

He should never have even been allowed to enter service in the Air Force.

Now we have a bigger problem. Like I said in the main thread, where there is one who falls through the cracks, there are many others.

I have no idea why the Air Force or the military in general would not report what they are legally required to report. Their negligence and stupidity enabled a mentally ill person to buy a gun and kill innocent people.

His history of being mentally ill is also well documented. There are many instances, including one while in the air force, where he could have and SHOULD HAVE been adjudicated mentally ill. That didn't happen either.

How much of this is going on Pentagon?

a reply to: projectvxn

Exactly. Military personnel are some of the most prone when it comes to developing or exhibiting mental illness. And yet this case shows that the DOD aren't reporting domestic abusers. How many other categories do they avoid reporting on?

From the data we can see that the only time they actually report anything is if it's a dishonorable discharge. How many military people are out there with clear cases of mental illness that are still able to purchase firearms?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Military personnel are some of the most prone when it comes to developing or exhibiting mental illness.

Where's the data for this statement?

a reply to: projectvxn

Study: Rates of many mental disorders much higher in soldiers than in civilians

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: projectvxn

Study: Rates of many mental disorders much higher in soldiers than in civilians

Not surprising.

It's the nature of the job. It wasn't a cakewalk for me either.

Survivors guilt.

Mild depression from injury.

There's a huge difference between issues that are created by the cards dealt to us, and being dangerously mentally ill.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: Xcalibur254


People who shouldn't own guns for any reason:

Domestic Abusers
Those who committed self harm
rapists
and anyone else with a history of violence.

The Military need to change their system asap or else there will be more shootings.

It's already illegal for a felon to own a firearm. We would just have to raise Domestic abuse and those that commit self harm to felony status. Rapist are felons. And people with a history of violence (awesome movie) is to broad a term. Lots of room for corruption. Laws need to be clear.

Why did you add self harm as a reason for not owning a gun? Because of suicide?

a reply to: projectvxn

Military personnel suffer from PTSD at a rate 15 times higher than civilians. That's not a minor disorder.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Domestic violence is already a disqualifying factor.

Here's ATF Form 4473 www.atf.gov...

That is a PDF straight from the ATF website.

From that form you can get all the information you need on what is a disqualifying condition.

Making suicide a felony wouldn't help anyone. Prison doesn't help people with mental issues. What we need is a better mental heath care system, better reporting system, and a better and streamlined mental adjudication process.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: projectvxn

Military personnel suffer from PTSD at a rate 15 times higher than civilians. That's not a minor disorder.

PTSD is not equal to being violent.

Please stop watching Hollywood films.

PTSD is a result of something that happened to you, it isn't just something you have that makes you crazy.

So #ing tired of this stereotype.

a reply to: projectvxn

Maybe they don't want people to know who is really serving in our military?