Saudi Arabia says Lebanon has declared war on it

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I'm thinking Saudi Arabia simply considers the other countries in the region other than Iran to be its vassals. So when any form of Iranian influence spreads in one of those countries, the Saudis try to crush it.

Months before officially resigning, Yemen's President was ousted by his own political party and his choices for leadership positions were rejected. He'd effectively been neutered 2 months before resigning, with most of the country's other factions (including many Sunnis) aligning with the predominately Shiite Houthis. But the Saudis wanted him to stay in power so they orchestrated his "un-resignation" and launched a war to reinstate him, even though his own political party didn't want him anymore. And this is only a few years after the Arab Spring took down the original leader of Yemen, who was also a Saudi ally and was the Yemen "President" for 20+ years.

In Lebanon, the current/former Prime Minister Saad Hariri had actually formed a unity government with Hezbollah and other groups. Think about that for a second: the predominately Sunni Hariri faction is currently in a unity alliance with the Shiite group Hezbollah. But once again instead of embracing the people's desire to see unity between the different denominations, the Saudis ordered Hariri to resign because they thought he was being too tolerant of Hezbollah.

Nevermind that Hezbollah is a political party and is an official party of the current Lebanese government. And nevermind that Lebanon hasn't declared war on Saudi Arabia or any other crap like that. Saudi Arabia is actually demanding that Hezbollah be disarmed now, which isn't even what the Lebanese people want. In fact, many Lebanese people including Muslims and Christians are supportive of Hezbollah because of their battles to keep Israel out of Lebanese territory (Israel also indiscriminately targets Lebanese civilian neighborhoods in each of their conflicts). So disarming them would be more helpful to Israel than to Saudi Arabia.

Then there's Syria. Syria is a Sunni majority country but it's led by an Alawite Shiite (Assad). The original protests in Syria had some legit grievances, such as wanting constitutional reforms and free elections. Lebanon's Hariri family were some of the financial backers of those initial protests (they blame Assad for killing their father, the former Lebanese Prime Minister or President). But since the civil war began, Syria's both changed its constitution to reflect many of the original protesters' complaints (it was approved in a voter referendum) and Syria held its first contested Presidential elections, which Assad won because of his leadership against the foreign mercenaries and the terrorist groups there. But the Saudis don't acknowledge or respect the will of the Syrian people either and are trying to get a Wahhabi-styled govt for Syria, even though the citizens clearly don't want that.

Bahrain is a Shiite majority country that is led by a staunch Saudi-allied monarch. During the Arab Spring around 2011, they protested their government and wanted more rights. So of course the Saudis led a military intervention there to help put down the protests. The crackdowns were so brutal (torture, shooting into the crowds, etc) that the US actually stopped selling arms to Bahrain for several years.

Then there's Iraq. Ironically, the 2003 invasion and occupation resulted in Shiites gaining power in Iraq and it increased the alliance between Iran and Iraq. Remember that Iraq is actually a Shiite majority country & that the Sunni Saddam's political party was disbanded by the US after the invasion. This coincidentally strengthened the Shiites' political power and led to them controlling the new govts. So of course, the Saudis have constantly tried to drive a wedge between Iran and Iraq since that 2003 invasion.

The more I look into it, the more I'm convinced that Saudi Arabia and Israel have been working together the whole time. Qaddafi was an enemy of both the Israelis and the Saudis (he even tried to have one of the Saudi kings assassinated). Saddam was an enemy of both Israel and Saudi Arabia, especially right before the Gulf War when he was expected to invade Saudi Arabia and during the Gulf War when he fired SCUD missiles into Israel. Assad and Hezbollah are staunch Israeli enemies instead of Saudi enemies, and Iran is a blood rival of both Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Even when Syria was stripped of its chemical weapons in 2013, that benefited Israel more than anyone else. The whole reason Syria kept its chemical weapons stockpile was so it would serve as a counterweight to Israel's nuclear weapons stockpile. And coincidentally, supposedly it was the Saudi Prince Bandar's "rebel" group in Syria that launched the initial chemical weapons attack after Obama gave his infamous "red line" ultimatum, which is what set the ball in motion to get Syria to give up its chemical weapons.

Sorry this is so long but I guess I'm having a good stream of consciousness right now. I probably need to copy this post just for future reference. lol From this perspective, most of the recent Saudi moves make a lot more sense, especially that leaked memo regarding the Palestinians, nuclear weapons, and Iran.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Good post . Any one new to the subject could benefit from it and its spot on as far as I can tell . The only place absent from your post is Jordan and UAE . For some reason I think the UAE plays a big roll in the decision making as far as SA is concerned .call it a hunch I guess .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Jordan is one of the places I don't know much about. I pretty much conceded that they're just an Israeli vassal state, for better or for worse.

And I don't know enough about the UAE to comment on them. Though it's worth noting that they went along with the Saudis when Saudi Arabia cut off ties to Qatar this summer and they're going along with the Saudis in regards to Lebanon right now. They're also in the Saudi coalition in Yemen right now, but that's not saying much.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

This mess is only going to get messier

a reply to: the2ofusr1

RT crosstalk on whats up with SA ,,,

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Updates: Lebanon's former/current Prime Minister Saad Hariri has finally left Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. But supposedly some of his family is being left behind in Saudi Arabia, though I'm seeing conflicting reports on which family members. Either way, he met with France's President Macron today in Paris.

Mr. Hariri’s office said on Saturday that his wife, Lara, and his eldest son, Houssam, would be present at a lunch in the Lebanese prime minister’s honor at the Élysée Palace. Mr. Hariri’s wife had accompanied him on the flight from Saudi Arabia, and his son was said to have flown in from Britain.

Mr. Hariri’s two younger children, a 16-year-old daughter, Loulwa, and a 12-year-old son, Abdulaziz, did not appear in television footage of his arrival. The two have been attending school in Saudi Arabia and could have stayed behind for that reason, but their apparent absence was an obstacle to ending concerns that Mr. Hariri was not acting freely, because it left room for speculation that the Saudis had pressured Mr. Hariri to leave them in the country as leverage.

Lebanese Prime Minister Meets Macron in France After Mysterious Saudi Stay

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Not sure if its a good thing or a bad thing but it is a strange thing so far . Oh and South Front put up a excellent Doc

a reply to: the2ofusr1

The second half of the video really drives home why Hezbollah's so important to Lebanon. It also helps explain why Hariri's in a coalition with them, while the rest of the video explains why Saudi Arabia's demand that Hezbollah be disarmed is simply ludicrous.

It's almost funny now how easily Saudi Arabia dictated the narrative about this situation. They basically abducted Lebanon's Prime Minister and some of his family, forced him to resign, and then tried to make the world think that an entire branch of the Lebanese govt needs to be disarmed and wants war with it. And everyone initially bought their story. But once the truth started coming out, most of the MSM dropped the story.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yea the whole thing is some kind of stupid . Pepe Escobar had earlier mentioned that the guy was not the sharpest knife in the drawer . He seems to have dug a very deep dangerous hole for himself . Maybe he can flee to Israel as a political refugee .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

That would be quite fitting. I've been reading that the Crown Prince's crackdown in Saudi Arabia has destroyed many domestic alliances and previously held agreements. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there were assassination attempts against him soon. Then again, he now controls their entire security apparatus so maybe he'll pull a Stalin and rule with such a tight grip that no one can get close to him.

I'm still just as confused about the end game as I was when this first started. Saudi Arabia's pissed off nearly every faction in Lebanon with this stunt. And the Hariri resignation/abduction scandal has made people completely forget that we were supposed to be mad at Iran for supposedly giving the Houthis the ballistic missiles that were aimed at Saudi Arabia's capital. Or maybe this is all just a distraction so people will forget that the Saudi govt just froze and possibly seized the assets of numerous investors, billionaires, and powerbrokers, all of which may have repercussions in the markets where those assets are held?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

That missile from Yemen may have been fired from a Sub as a kind of false flag to start the show. I cant see the Houtsis missing a chance to film themselves launching that and not taking credit for it . There are lots of different factions within the SA military loyal to different Princes . I don't think MBS has done the time to have won many over to himself . The term "dead man walking " seems about correct ...tic toc tic toc .

a reply to: enlightenedservant

This news may be the play next . Turkey moving a large amount of tropes into Syria

Weren't the Syrians in Lebanon for years and blew up Hariri's father some yrs ago?
Yeah, from wiki.

Rafic Baha El Deen Al Hariri (Arabic: رفيق بهاء الدين الحريري‎; Arabic pronunciation: [rafiːq ħariːriː] 1 November 1944 – 14 February 2005) was a Lebanese business tycoon and the Prime Minister of Lebanon from 1992 to 1998 and again from 2000 until his resignation on 20 October 2004. He headed five cabinets during his tenure. Hariri dominated the country's post-war political and business life and is widely credited with reconstructing the capital Beirut after the 15-year civil war. Hariri was assassinated on 14 February 2005 when explosives equivalent to around 1800 kg of TNT were detonated as his motorcade drove past the St. George Hotel in Beirut. Alleged Hezbollah supporters Salim Jamil Ayyash, Hassan Habib Merhi, Hussein Hassan Oneissi, and Assad Hassan Sabra have been indicted[1] for the assassination and are currently being tried in absentia by the Special Tribunal for Lebanon,[2] but others have linked the assassination to the Syrian government.

en.wikipedia.org...

SA is a recent interloper, I guess.

During a BBC interview in 2001,[19][20] Harīrī was asked by Tim Sebastian why he refused to hand over members of Hezbollah that were accused by America of being terrorists. He responded that Hezbollah were the ones protecting Lebanon against the Israeli occupation and called for implementation of passed United Nations resolutions against Israel. He was further accused of making the American coalition in the war on terrorism worthless and asked if he was ready for the consequences of his refusal, reminding him that George W. Bush had said: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."[21] He replied that he had hoped there would be no consequences, but would deal with them if they arrive. Hariri further said that he opposed the killing of all humans – Israeli, Palestinian, Syrian or Lebanese – and believed in dialogue as a solution. He further went on to say that Syria would have to stay in Lebanon for protection of Lebanon until they are no longer needed and Lebanon asks them to leave.

I remember that place being such a mess back then.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Wiki entry's sometimes don't tell the whole story

a reply to: the2ofusr1

This latest piece is worth a read

A few days ago, former Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Qatar Hamad Bin Jassim in an interview with the BBC announced that his country had been providing all sorts of assistance to the armed opposition groups in Syria through Turkey for years. At the same time, Doha wasn’t alone to show its supports to anti-Assad forces, as it was joined by the United States, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE and Turkey itself. All this began back in 2007 after Israel suffered a humiliating defeat in South Lebanon, while being unable to overcome Hezbollah’s resistance in 2006. According to the former Qatari Prime Minister, Qatar was in charge of the so-called “Syrian Dossier” on behalf of the US and Saudi Arabia, adding that he had access to both American and Saudi paperwork on the staging of a so-called “Syrian civil war.” Hamad Bin Jassim announced that weapons and equipment was distributed to all sorts of opposition groups via Turkey.

This operations were a common routine of American, Turkish and Saudi military personnel in this country. At the same time, the Incirlik Air Force base would host a joint operational headquarters, where intelligence officers from the United States, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Morocco, Jordan, Israel, France and Great Britain would coordinate the course of proxy operations in Syria. Washington has gone as far as to dispatch 6 special reconnaissance satellites for those officers to observe the entire territory of Syria 24 hours a day non-stop. This operational command center was in charge of military operations in the north of Syria. As for the operations in southern parts Syria, to coordinate those Washington created a similar command center at the King Hussein Air Base in Jordan , where officers from Jordan, Israel, the United States, Great Britain, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar would join their efforts in a bid to outsmart Syria’s government. journal-neo.org...

Zerohedge had a piece as well www.zerohedge.com...


More juicy tid bits from Pepe Escobar on the visit to France www.facebook.com...

HARIRI DOES PARIS - THE TRUE STORY It’s not that Saad Hariri was itching for a shopping spree at Avenue Montaigne. French MSM is spicing up the steak tartare to oblivion trying to spin a foreign policy “victory”. Nonsense. The true story starts in Abu Dhabi when Sun King Macron was having dinner with all-powerful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed (MBZ) during the inauguration of the Louvre in the Sands (doesn’t it sound like a casino?) What happened is that MBZ grabbed his mobile and secured a meeting between Macron and MBS for the day after. Easy; after all MBZ is MBS’s mentor – and de facto chief strategist. Macron’s people had been trying FOR WEEKS to get a meeting with MBS. Zayed did it with one single phone call. Afterwards, MBS threw a breadcrumb to the begging Macron; OK, you can meet Hariri and even take him away. But under certain conditions; French Minister Le Drian had to publicly scold Iran – which he did; and on top of it Le Drian cancelled his trip to Tehran next week to prepare the terrain for Macron’s own visit. Talk about “French power”. Additionally, Hariri WAS indeed kidnapped and under house arrest in Riyadh – as many of us reported.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Here's a pretty good article that comes to the same conclusion that the Saudis screwed themselves with this Lebanon fiasco. I'll quote a few paragraphs but the whole thing is worth reading (especially the last paragraph I quoted).

Indeed, the emergence of Saudi-backed Rafik Hariri to lead post-war Lebanon gave Riyadh a seat at the table, but the Syrian regime kept Hariri in check as he began to develop an extensive network of contacts with world leaders. Riyadh helped Hariri consolidate power at the expense of all other Sunni leaders in Lebanon, as demonstrated in the 2000 parliamentary elections. His assassination in February 2005 ended Syrian-Saudi cooperation in Lebanon and forced Syrian troops out of the country. Iran gradually filled the void, and Hezbollah became directly involved in Lebanese politics.

Pressuring Saad Hariri to resign and confront Hezbollah marks a landmark shift in Saudi policy. Riyadh's policy tradition in Lebanon had long been to mediate between rivals, maintaining the same distance from all Lebanese groups and supporting the central government. Riyadh has been most effective in Lebanese politics when acting in the shadow of the United States or Syria, rather than in the forefront. Saudi policy has traditionally viewed Lebanon through the lens of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Riyadh has been known to pull back from Lebanese politics when confronted with adversity and re-engage when rival parties appear ready to talk. In 1979, after gunfire hit the helicopter of the Saudi ambassador to Lebanon, Riyadh withdrew nearly 700 soldiers from the Arab Deterrent Force deployed to preserve Lebanon's stability. That move allowed the Syrian army to gradually gain control of Lebanon and paved the way for the Israeli invasion in 1982. In May 2008, when Hezbollah clashed with and disarmed the Future Movement, led by Saad Hariri, Saudi Arabia backed away and endorsed the Doha Agreement, which ended Lebanon's political crisis in 2008. The guiding principles of Saudi policy have now completely changed.

One cannot underestimate the long-term implications of the kingdom's move. In the past few weeks, the anti-Saudi sentiment within the Lebanese Sunni community has been alarming and unprecedented. Riyadh inadvertently made Hariri the most popular Lebanese leader, endorsed by everyone except his own principal in Riyadh. In the past two decades, Saudi policy weakened every Sunni leader to prop up Rafik Hariri and is now complaining that Saad Hariri cannot politically confront Hezbollah after gradually stripping him of power, including financial resources.

How Riyadh orchestrated its own downfall in Lebanon

Rafik/Rafic Hariri is the current Prime Minister Saad Hariri's dad. He's the billionaire former Prime Minister who was assassinated in 2005, allegedly by allies of Assad and/or Hezbollah.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

That is a pretty good historic political piece .Thanks for sharing . Its hard to imagine how any of this can be fixed at this point .Maybe Qatar's come to Jesus moment is how we look to the future as to how this will grow . Russia China Iran Syria and possibly Turkey makes for a possible new ME . Throw into that mix a Yemen cleaned of the bad actors ,the US interests would seem like a impossible dream .

Lebanon's "Odysseus" Hariri Returns To Beirut, Puts Resignation On Hold: What's Comes Next?

Saad Hariri finally returned to Beirut late on Tuesday amid tight security after what was essentially a two week house arrest in Riyadh which began on November 4 after his resignation announcement in Saudi Arabia. Lebanese television aired live footage of the former prime ministers plane landing, though he left without addressing the expectant throng of journalists gathered at the airport.

His shocking resignation, which President Michel Aoun has refused to formally accept, came amidst Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman's (MBS) aggressive crackdown within the royal family and against high officials, which resulted in the deaths of at least two princes, and the arrests of at least a dozen others. And, in the latest Wednesday morning development in this ongoing saga, Hariri said he has changed his mind and has puts his resignation on hold at the request of the country’s president.

In televised comments quoted by Reuters, Hariri said that he “presented my resignation to President Aoun today and he urged me to wait” for more dialogue. “I showed responsiveness to this hope.” Hariri also denied reports that Riyadh forced him to step down. He says the claims that Saudi Arabia was keeping him against his will are merely “rumors.”

Meanwhile, as reported previously, in the midst of MBS' purge, new revelations emerged and were confirmed of an official Saudi-Israeli intelligence sharing relationship targeting Iran and Lebanese Hezbollah.

Though Hariri tried to calm Lebanese fears during an awkward and likely coerced televised interview from Riyadh, saying, "Resignation could be withdrawn if Lebanon sticks to its policy of disassociation [from Hezbollah/Iran/Syria]. I was at my home [in Saudi] and not The Ritz [in reference to the detained Saudi princes]" - he didn't immediately return to Lebanon, instead traveling to France last Saturday to meet with President Macron.

Some analysts dubbed Hariri's strange travels an Odysseus style exile and wandering as he left France for Egypt to meet with Sisi, after which he arrived in Cyprus to meet with that nation's president, before finally returning to Lebanon. And according to reports Hariri is now at his home in Beirut as Lebanon is set for independence day celebrations on Wednesday.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Things could be "fixed" if every country simply allowed its citizens to choose through fair elections. But that would result in far more interfaith coalitions and secular governments, along with more alliances with Iran. But there's simply no way Israel, most of the GCC, or the US will allow that.

As for Qatar, I'll always have my reservations w/them. On one hand, they've routinely backed Wahhabi extremist groups & I hate their exploitive migrant worker system (which many Gulf countries have). Their powerbrokers are some of the major initial backers of many of those fake "rebel" paramilitary groups in Syria, including ISIS.

But on the other hand, I love Al Jazeera, I like how Qatar is trying to "come clean" about the Syrian War, and Saudi Arabia's boycott of Qatar this summer has pushed Qatar to form an alliance with Iran. My end goal is peace and I think Iran is a fairer partner than Saudi Arabia, so I see this new alliance as potentially being a good thing. After all, if Wahhabi-controlled Qatar can work together with Shiite controlled Iran, maybe it can finally wipe away the Wahhabi vs Shiite blood feud.