Local Plumber Fired Shot That Took Out Texas Church Shooter

originally posted by: DerBeobachter

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

Good on him. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. That's why it is important to have properly trained armed citizens.

Without armed citizens nobody has to stop, with guns, lunatic armed citizens that go postal with firearms.
Or is that wrong?

And if alcohol didn't exist no one would ever get a hangover or die from getting hit by a drunk driver. I don't know what fantasy land you're living in but these things (guns, alcohol) are a part of this world. No amount of legislation is going to make them go away. Read prohibition.

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Its the DISARMING issue here.
No one's figured it out.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I want to point this out for the pro-gun crowd who are going to turn this into a story about how Guns save lives.

Current statistics show that so far this year there have been about 1700 confirmed cases were a gun has been used in self defence. However these same statistics also show that there have been almost as many cases of accidental shootings. This means that for every time someone uses a gun in self defence another persons is accidentally shooting either themselves or someone else. That means that when you look at the numbers the self defence aspect of owning a gun is almost muted because of accidental discharges.

This plumber is a hero, he faced off against a armed murderer who had already killed multiple people in the bravest way possible.

lets not forget however that this guy was still able to mow down 26 people before this guy was able to act.

Mate...

I have followed you here at ATS right from the very beginning... you were the first person to welcome me here under my old user name of Rodinus...

I am British and have lived in France for nearly 30 years now. I own quite a large variety of shotguns and hunting rifles ( some being the old fashioned side by side double barreled ones and some being one barreled 3 cartridge semi automatic ones)(Not to mention the .270 rifles etc I use for hunting too...))

I am a hunter first of all... blood does not excite me but under the right respectful conditions I feed my family.

I own guns for this reason but will also use if needed to defend myself or my loved ones from a gun toting nutcase (pretty darned rare over here in France))

Otherwise said nutcase dies the death of a thousand kicks and punches...

My guns (as a European and OUR culture) are locked up and only used as above...

Too many (sadly) second amendment people that REFUSE to try to change and come up with the same old argument...

« Shrugs shoulders » cultural differences and BIG blinders mate.

Warmest respects

Lags

originally posted by: djz3ro
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

It's being reported on UK news he died from a self inflicted gunshot wound

May have, but that was after the good guy with a gun put an end to the terror...

UK will NEVER admit guns can be used for good....

Yup, if I saw someone doing something like that, I would go get my gun and shoot him too. It was obvious that this guy was shooting the people at the church, he needed to go down. It was probably luck that he hit the guy in a gap in the armour though, god must have helped with that a bit. The shooter who killed all those people was a loose cannon, how come nobody noticed that and helped him before he did this? The Military gave him a dishonorable discharge and abandoned all responsibility for trying to get him fixed, their policies actually made this happen. I wonder how many people the military breaks and gets rid of this way, how many of them go loose cannon?

a reply to: rickymouse

Not many.
The ones who do won't get far,anyway.
We are trained to win ,not murder.

originally posted by: DerBeobachter

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

Good on him. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. That's why it is important to have properly trained armed citizens.

Without armed citizens nobody has to stop, with guns, lunatic armed citizens that go postal with firearms.
Or is that wrong?

If both wouldn´t be armed, nobody got hurt and nobody had to stop somebody with weapon power.

Btw, why is nobody talking about the perpetrator, that he was not allowed to buy guns, because of dishonorable discharge from the miltary?

My understanding is he received a Bad Conduct discharge, which usually comes as a result of being found guilty of a misdemeamor level violation. It was for domestic violence as I understand it, so he would have had to lie on the ATF gun purchase form and, if the gun dealer called it in as required, the dealer would have to have been given a green light to sell. This presumes the Air Force updated NICS to reflect the domesic abuse conviction. If they didn’t, there would be reason for the gun dealer to be suspicious. This also presumes the guns weren’t bought before the prosecution/ conviction. Laws are in place to prevent someone with his conviction from buying guns. Unfortunately, criminals don’t follow laws, no matter how many are made.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Yup, if I saw someone doing something like that, I would go get my gun and shoot him too. It was obvious that this guy was shooting the people at the church, he needed to go down. It was probably luck that he hit the guy in a gap in the armour though, god must have helped with that a bit. The shooter who killed all those people was a loose cannon, how come nobody noticed that and helped him before he did this? The Military gave him a dishonorable discharge and abandoned all responsibility for trying to get him fixed, their policies actually made this happen. I wonder how many people the military breaks and gets rid of this way, how many of them go loose cannon?

Wow. If you’re going to start calling out the US military, I think you might want to check on how many mentally challenged folks are roaming the US who have never had any affiliation with the military. Oh, and the military does provide care to Veterans...just can’t FORCE them to accept medical care...free country and all that.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

I'm glad they were there and put a stop the madness. Probably didn't require a gap in the armor though...most hunting rifles are armor piercing.

BTW hunting rifles are not armor piercing only that the velocity that which most high power rifles fire will typically pierce standard level III bullet proof vests. Actual armor piercing rounds are highly protected and not commonly sold.

LE vests are only designed to stop standard pistol rounds and shotguns. (AKA pistols are what most criminals carry) Bullet proof vests are NOT armor and are NOT designed to stop high velocity rounds like hunting rifles.

Not trying to make you sound dumb only pointing out facts so people don't over sensationalize your broad comment of "most hunting rifles are armor piercing".

a reply to: GuidedKill

Any armor is better than no armour.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: GuidedKill

Any armor is better than no armour.

True...But people in the know are also aware of the differences in concealment and cover...but I digress.

However most people don't know anything about firearms and such broad factually untrue statements can lead to triggering.

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: djz3ro
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

It's being reported on UK news he died from a self inflicted gunshot wound

May have, but that was after the good guy with a gun put an end to the terror...

UK will NEVER admit guns can be used for good....

Yes, that's right, no loss of life because of this hero, no wait...

The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Whereas in Europe, like in the Bataclan theatre, bad guys with guns can murder over 90 people, and engage in ritualistic torture, while they wait for the police to arrive.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: djz3ro
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

It's being reported on UK news he died from a self inflicted gunshot wound

May have, but that was after the good guy with a gun put an end to the terror...

UK will NEVER admit guns can be used for good....

Yes, that's right, no loss of life because of this hero, no wait...

Americans will NEVER admit guns can be used for evil....

If only guns were treated like marijuana in this country.

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: DerBeobachter

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

Good on him. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. That's why it is important to have properly trained armed citizens.

Without armed citizens nobody has to stop, with guns, lunatic armed citizens that go postal with firearms.
Or is that wrong?

If both wouldn´t be armed, nobody got hurt and nobody had to stop somebody with weapon power.

Btw, why is nobody talking about the perpetrator, that he was not allowed to buy guns, because of dishonorable discharge from the miltary?

My understanding is he received a Bad Conduct discharge, which usually comes as a result of being found guilty of a misdemeamor level violation. It was for domestic violence as I understand it, so he would have had to lie on the ATF gun purchase form and, if the gun dealer called it in as required, the dealer would have to have been given a green light to sell. This presumes the Air Force updated NICS to reflect the domesic abuse conviction. If they didn’t, there would be reason for the gun dealer to be suspicious. This also presumes the guns weren’t bought before the prosecution/ conviction. Laws are in place to prevent someone with his conviction from buying guns. Unfortunately, criminals don’t follow laws, no matter how many are made.

The news that I first heard was that he had a dishonorable discharge. That later changed to a Bad Conduct discharge in later stories. He was said to have been court martialed for assaulting his wife and child and did a one year term in a military prison. That is usually grounds for a dishonorable discharge.
Regardless of which it was, it is a felony charge and he would not be allowed to possess, let alone purchase a firearm according to federal law.
I heard a news report that the rifle he used in the shooting had the serial numbers removed.

a reply to: GuidedKill

Class IV armor weighs about 30 lbs,a TON if you have to shoot and move,I don't see a NON CONDITIONED, zoomie getting far in one.
A class III is a nominal type as you say.
.223 Ar will penetrate it.
I guess he was expecting light resistance.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

The US is not the UK. We never had a gun culture like the USA.

That's right.

The UK had the sword culture,torture culture, and the church culture for the LONGEST time.

Those with glass houses eh.

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: rickymouse
Yup, if I saw someone doing something like that, I would go get my gun and shoot him too. It was obvious that this guy was shooting the people at the church, he needed to go down. It was probably luck that he hit the guy in a gap in the armour though, god must have helped with that a bit. The shooter who killed all those people was a loose cannon, how come nobody noticed that and helped him before he did this? The Military gave him a dishonorable discharge and abandoned all responsibility for trying to get him fixed, their policies actually made this happen. I wonder how many people the military breaks and gets rid of this way, how many of them go loose cannon?

Wow. If you’re going to start calling out the US military, I think you might want to check on how many mentally challenged folks are roaming the US who have never had any affiliation with the military. Oh, and the military does provide care to Veterans...just can’t FORCE them to accept medical care...free country and all that.

Yes, the military does care for their vets. But there is some problems with those dishonorably discharged. Evidently there is supposed partial coverage if the problem did arise from their being a soldier. www.va.gov... But there is still a problem with them getting approved because there is the question as to whether it is service connected some times. So, the number of those not getting help is lower than what I had initially thought, but it still is a problem.

I have respect for the military in our country and also the police. I am not so proud of our intelegance agencies though, they seem to be too entitled. When something around here involves a need for the FBI or a special government police agency, the process is slow and many times things go wrong because the agencies running things have agents who are not from around here, they mess things up quite a bit. I have a lot of respect for the cops here though, they live here. The State seems to want to transfer people around in the state police and the cops just get used to who does what and where to look and they get transferred out. I guess a cop who knows few people gives out more tickets from what I heard from a State Boy a few years back.

Back to the Military after going off track, I was wrong, there is some coverage available for the dishonorable discharged soldiers. Hopefully they have patients, it takes quite a while to get approved for anything with the Veterans administration around here. You often need a lawyer to get things approved, my stepfather and others I know went through hell to get their benefits but once they did, they were treated well.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

I'm glad they were there and put a stop the madness. Probably didn't require a gap in the armor though...most hunting rifles are armor piercing.

Just for clarification, the round can be armor piercing, but the weapon cannot.

To further clarify armor piercing ammo is illegal and very difficult to get.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: GuidedKill

Class IV armor weighs about 30 lbs,a TON if you have to shoot and move,I don't see a NON CONDITIONED, zoomie getting far in one.
A class III is a nominal type as you say.
.223 Ar will penetrate it.
I guess he was expecting light resistance.

I used to know guys who would take out their trauma plate because it was too heavy to wear day to day...And the trauma plate is only a 6x8 piece of steel that goes over the chest....

And no criminal should ever expect light resistance....unless their in a no gun zone.