Trump Supporters Let The Russians Win

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I think the bigger issue is if the Republicans will continue to allow Russia to meddle in our affairs. From what I hear on ATS, many of them refuse to believe that the election meddling took place (despite the facts) and even if they do accept it, they don't think it's a big deal.

What bothers me the most were the completely fabricated stories being pushed by the Russians online, including slander - accusing Hillary and other Democrats of crimes they did not commit. Russia isn't the only entity that is pushing fake news, so are various conservative websites that spread "news" and make advertising revenue off of page views.

I can't quite put my finger on exactly what the Russians are trying to do by infiltrating both Republicans and Democrats on social media, but they have pretended to be a myriad of liberal and conservative groups, and even organized events on both sides that took place in the U.S.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It has always bothered me that three weeks into this Russian obstruction / control of this American election process, the F.B.I. and CIA both confirmed Donald J. Trump (Pres.) had nothing to do with it. I know never stated, just had to say.
As for the rest of the beehive stirring, there has never been a concrete, this is what was hacked by the Russian's, or advertised, or tweeted. I'm sure we trust all the sources, even if they are just quoting each other for the most part.
Even if there was concrete proof that the popular vote was influenced, so what, as we all know our vote means little to nothing, and I seriously doubt that the individuals within the electoral college were influenced at all by media rhetoric, in whatever form. Just look at the Bush; Chaney theft of the Presidency. Bush (Jr.) was, I think, the first president in history to have signs, held high, of disapproval and eggs tossed at his entire precession. We also have the Ohio supreme court case proving that the voting machines were tampered with in Bush's favor.
But I digress, let's say the Russians really did what the media is alluding to. What in Gods name did they get, a more compliant, agreeable stooge running America, rather than someone they would have to pay off in backroom deals, to get what they want. Whatever that is.
What did the American people get, a President that tries, at the very least, to do what he said he was going to do. Sure some things he said people don't like or agree with. But we should all, as critically thinking people, at least, find out what was said from the horse's mouth so to speak (eg... Illegal immigrants, not immigrants). Yes one little word, but it might make a difference to some people.
You also talk about being duped, well I was duped for over 30yrs. By the Democratic parties' propaganda machine. Try not to forget who President Lincoln (R) was fighting against, and why. For that matter which of the 2 big parties supported the KKK.
No one is a saint in the political arena, but we live in a representative democracy, fraught with shenanigans. We should at least give the duly (electoral college) elected president a real chance. It is even more interesting to ask why is this the only president in history to get hate, real hate from both of the 2 big parties. Is he really that horrible a president, go back a couple to Bush and take a look at what he did in his first 100 days in office. Then ask yourself how could he spend 100 Billion dollars in that time, and the give himself 1 Billion dollars as part of the TARP (Banking, Aircraft, Auto bailout).

27% of voters voted for Trump, 28% voted for Hillary, wasn't anything Russian that fixed it. The only reason why the liberals lost was because they put up Hillary. That is the truth to all this. It wasn't a whitewash, it wasn't the Russians, it was that the liberals stayed at home and didn't vote.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
With the recent arrests in the Mueller investigation I think that there is something that has to be said, its quite a obvious point but not one I have seen discussed. First lets just take away the whole idea of Russian collusion. While yes I do believe there there is more to be revealed from the ongoing investigations for now lets pretend that there was no collusion, none, nobody from the Trump campaign had any contact with any Russians or persons linked to Russia.

If we take this approach, there is still one massive problem, its now abundantly clear and has been for quite some time that the Russians influenced the campaign. They fought was I think could be regarded as the most successful misinformation war in history. They used various tactics such as hacking, advertising and social media manipulation to undermine the Democratic Party and actively promote Trump as the ideal presidential candidate.

I don’t see any point in going over everything that we already know, I think it is fair to say that the Russians influenced this election. Yet I already know who will deny this, the Trump supporters and then the question has to be why they deny this in the face of such overwhelming evidence.

I think the answer is quite simple, they were duped.

Trumps supporters have fell for this massive Russian propaganda campaign in the most spectacular way possible and as a result the desired outcome for the Kremlin has been achieved. All because Trumps supporters permitted themselves, through their hate of liberal ideals and the Democrats to be willingly influenced by the Russians and essentially let the Russians sway the election.

Trumps supporters have enabled the Russians to do what was previously unthinkable, they have aloud them to win, they have won, they got their guy into the Whitehouse, their candidate won. Trump was as much a candidate of the Republican Party as she was the Kremlin, collusion or no collusion for the Russians having Trump in the Whitehouse was always going to be the best outcome.

Not only that they have now demonstrated that with enough resources and know how they can influence even the most powerful democracy and bend it to their will. All because Trump supporters could not see through the Russian propaganda machine.

You guys let the Russians win regardless if there was collusion or not.

When Trump talked about getting tired of all the winning, no one realized he was talking about the Russians winning.

But your post summed it up pretty well. The Russians have utilized them fully. Millions of "useful idiots" laying around, providing a fertile ground for the seeds of disinformation, fertilized by tons of BS, to grow into Trumpensteins.

originally posted by: seedofchucky
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Trump didn't need russia to win . Hilary's incompetence , history of lies , deception , and body count of her and her husbands trail , was enough for the american people.



Stop peddling the nothing burger of Russia . USA is the biggest meddler of elections in other countries by far .... Do as i say not as i do right ?


Hilary lost , Liberals just using Russia as an excuse for their fallen hero hilary . Its simple as that.

Who writes a book of excuses called "What happened" ? LOL


be anti-trump all you want , end of the day its a witch hunt , and waste of tax payer dollars. They have nothing on trump , but sadly liberals don't care about the truth , they love smear campaigns .

Liberalism seriously is a mental disorder.

With all the things she blamed, it adds up to America.

She should have just came out and said america sucks.

It's obvious she hates this place, like the obama's.

She bought and ran the DNC, rigged the nom for herself and even giving the russians 20% of our uranium and getting a pass for multiple crimes, she still has a gripe.

She must have sold the russians some heavily stepped on yellow cake.

lol.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
27% of voters voted for Trump, 28% voted for Hillary, wasn't anything Russian that fixed it. The only reason why the liberals lost was because they put up Hillary. That is the truth to all this. It wasn't a whitewash, it wasn't the Russians, it was that the liberals stayed at home and didn't vote.

Well, she was so far ahead in the polls, why bother to go stand in line?

It was in the bag!

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
With the recent arrests in the Mueller investigation I think that there is something that has to be said, its quite a obvious point but not one I have seen discussed. First lets just take away the whole idea of Russian collusion. While yes I do believe there there is more to be revealed from the ongoing investigations for now lets pretend that there was no collusion, none, nobody from the Trump campaign had any contact with any Russians or persons linked to Russia.

If we take this approach, there is still one massive problem, its now abundantly clear and has been for quite some time that the Russians influenced the campaign. They fought was I think could be regarded as the most successful misinformation war in history. They used various tactics such as hacking, advertising and social media manipulation to undermine the Democratic Party and actively promote Trump as the ideal presidential candidate.

I don’t see any point in going over everything that we already know, I think it is fair to say that the Russians influenced this election. Yet I already know who will deny this, the Trump supporters and then the question has to be why they deny this in the face of such overwhelming evidence.

I think the answer is quite simple, they were duped.

Trumps supporters have fell for this massive Russian propaganda campaign in the most spectacular way possible and as a result the desired outcome for the Kremlin has been achieved. All because Trumps supporters permitted themselves, through their hate of liberal ideals and the Democrats to be willingly influenced by the Russians and essentially let the Russians sway the election.

Trumps supporters have enabled the Russians to do what was previously unthinkable, they have aloud them to win, they have won, they got their guy into the Whitehouse, their candidate won. Trump was as much a candidate of the Republican Party as she was the Kremlin, collusion or no collusion for the Russians having Trump in the Whitehouse was always going to be the best outcome.

Not only that they have now demonstrated that with enough resources and know how they can influence even the most powerful democracy and bend it to their will. All because Trump supporters could not see through the Russian propaganda machine.

You guys let the Russians win regardless if there was collusion or not.

When Trump talked about getting tired of all the winning, no one realized he was talking about the Russians winning.

But your post summed it up pretty well. The Russians have utilized them fully. Millions of "useful idiots" laying around, providing a fertile ground for the seeds of disinformation, fertilized by tons of BS, to grow into Trumpensteins.

So do you guys think the russkies will do it again in 2020?

Or will they elect some village idiot from the dem side next time?

They should prove they can do it and elect Johnson next time.

Otherwise, the narrative is fake and clearly an excuse.

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I think the bigger issue is if the Republicans will continue to allow Russia to meddle in our affairs. From what I hear on ATS, many of them refuse to believe that the election meddling took place (despite the facts) and even if they do accept it, they don't think it's a big deal.

What bothers me the most were the completely fabricated stories being pushed by the Russians online, including slander - accusing Hillary and other Democrats of crimes they did not commit. Russia isn't the only entity that is pushing fake news, so are various conservative websites that spread "news" and make advertising revenue off of page views.

I can't quite put my finger on exactly what the Russians are trying to do by infiltrating both Republicans and Democrats on social media, but they have pretended to be a myriad of liberal and conservative groups, and even organized events on both sides that took place in the U.S.

Well, sadly a big part of the problem is that Russia has spent time, resources and more importantly -- money on our politicians. Many in Washington DC have likely accepted Russian oligarch money. Some may realize it, and this could explain the foot-dragging. Others may just recently be learning that some of their SuperPAC donations actually originated from dirty Russian mafia sources.

I don't honestly think that a most GOP politicians want to accept campaign donations or influence from Russia, but when it comes to how these SuperPAC donations work, they might not be made aware until much later after the fact.

This raises a very disturbing possibility ... the DNC is likely also infested with Russian money as well. It would only make sense for Russia to try and sink their money and influence/leverage over both political parties.

This time we're being made aware of it on the GOP side. Just because it likely happens to both political parties doesn't excuse the GOP/Republican party. I think it would be only prudent for the Democrats to begin sweeping through their finances and donor lists to see just how infiltrated they are, and begin expunging any questionable donors immediately. This is a prime opportunity for the Democrats IMO to clean house, and make sure they're primed and poised to win more seats in the midterms.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
With the recent arrests in the Mueller investigation I think that there is something that has to be said, its quite a obvious point but not one I have seen discussed. First lets just take away the whole idea of Russian collusion. While yes I do believe there there is more to be revealed from the ongoing investigations for now lets pretend that there was no collusion, none, nobody from the Trump campaign had any contact with any Russians or persons linked to Russia.

If we take this approach, there is still one massive problem, its now abundantly clear and has been for quite some time that the Russians influenced the campaign. They fought was I think could be regarded as the most successful misinformation war in history. They used various tactics such as hacking, advertising and social media manipulation to undermine the Democratic Party and actively promote Trump as the ideal presidential candidate.

I don’t see any point in going over everything that we already know, I think it is fair to say that the Russians influenced this election. Yet I already know who will deny this, the Trump supporters and then the question has to be why they deny this in the face of such overwhelming evidence.

I think the answer is quite simple, they were duped.

Trumps supporters have fell for this massive Russian propaganda campaign in the most spectacular way possible and as a result the desired outcome for the Kremlin has been achieved. All because Trumps supporters permitted themselves, through their hate of liberal ideals and the Democrats to be willingly influenced by the Russians and essentially let the Russians sway the election.

Trumps supporters have enabled the Russians to do what was previously unthinkable, they have aloud them to win, they have won, they got their guy into the Whitehouse, their candidate won. Trump was as much a candidate of the Republican Party as she was the Kremlin, collusion or no collusion for the Russians having Trump in the Whitehouse was always going to be the best outcome.

Not only that they have now demonstrated that with enough resources and know how they can influence even the most powerful democracy and bend it to their will. All because Trump supporters could not see through the Russian propaganda machine.

You guys let the Russians win regardless if there was collusion or not.

When Trump talked about getting tired of all the winning, no one realized he was talking about the Russians winning.

But your post summed it up pretty well. The Russians have utilized them fully. Millions of "useful idiots" laying around, providing a fertile ground for the seeds of disinformation, fertilized by tons of BS, to grow into Trumpensteins.

So do you guys think the russkies will do it again in 2020?

Or will they elect some village idiot from the dem side next time?

They should prove they can do it and elect Johnson next time.

Otherwise, the narrative is fake and clearly an excuse.

Of course they will certainly try. Why wouldn't they? They tried it once here, and it turned out to be a complete success. Round 2 looks promising.

They are still feeding Trumpistanis with BS, stirring up crap and keeping their fake news pipelines pumping, so I do not see them stopping anytime soon, or wasting such a valuable tool.

What they will do in 2020 is anyone's guess. If they back a candidate at all, because i don't see Trump making his full term, let alone for an election. But it is still possible they might.

Putin's end game is to sow chaos, and to turn the U.S. on itself. So far, he's doing a damned good job, I'll give him credit for that. He has plenty in this country eager to help.

originally posted by: Kettu

Well, sadly a big part of the problem is that Russia has spent time, resources and more importantly -- money on our politicians. Many in Washington DC have likely accepted Russian oligarch money. Some may realize it, and this could explain the foot-dragging. Others may just recently be learning that some of their SuperPAC donations actually originated from dirty Russian mafia sources.

Do you think this is something new. Does anyone think we do not do the same. One thing we do know is EVERYONE had a chance to play with the Russians, some more than others, but all of it is not new and is part of the norm for the political arena.

The only reason why it is a big deal today is because people can not accept a Hillary loss and so it must have been external forces that did it.

originally posted by: Kettu


Well, sadly a big part of the problem is that Russia has spent time, resources and more importantly -- money on our politicians. Many in Washington DC have likely accepted Russian oligarch money. Some may realize it, and this could explain the foot-dragging. Others may just recently be learning that some of their SuperPAC donations actually originated from dirty Russian mafia sources.

Yes. It is a lot more prevalent than people realize. it is actually a major problem in Europe, and has been for a while, so it would come as no surprise that Russians would try the same here.

I don't honestly think that a most GOP politicians want to accept campaign donations or influence from Russia, but when it comes to how these SuperPAC donations work, they might not be made aware until much later after the fact.

I would agree generally. Most GOP, especially old school, seasoned politicians who have been in the game for decades who remember the Cold War. But like you said, super PACS are a different bird, and the way donations go through them is shifty, to say the least.

This raises a very disturbing possibility ... the DNC is likely also infested with Russian money as well. It would only make sense for Russia to try and sink their money and influence/leverage over both political parties.

You can bet your year's salary that the Russians have also bought Democrats, and have their fingers in the democratic party. The Russians would both certainly be playing both ponies in this race. However, I also think the strategy used on Democrats would likely be different than the one they use on the GOP. The money would be the same, but their goals, as far as what they expect their Democrat in the pocket to do, would be different. But whatever it is, it would not be in the interests of the U.S., whatever it is.

I actually have a couple of Democrat friends who believe the Russians are, at least in part, responsible for Democrats backing or supporting certain ideas like Cal-Exit and other movements. it is something that is actually worrying to a lot of Dems, but right now, it is only one of their problems.

This time we're being made aware of it on the GOP side. Just because it likely happens to both political parties doesn't excuse the GOP/Republican party. I think it would be only prudent for the Democrats to begin sweeping through their finances and donor lists to see just how infiltrated they are, and begin expunging any questionable donors immediately. This is a prime opportunity for the Democrats IMO to clean house, and make sure they're primed and poised to win more seats in the midterms.

This would actually be a good show of faith by the Democrats, I think, and could really bolster their position in the long run. The question is, will they, and I don't see them doing it. More than likely, it will end up being outed by Mueller or another investigation.

But make no mistake, the Russians are playing us. They have been playing this game in Europe for the past decade, and now, they brought it to our shores. Divide, conquer, sow diversion and confusion, dig deeper divides. Our leaders might not wake up to it, because most of them are too busy benefiting, even indirectly.

TFW the Dems realize that the Trump "russian collusion" investigation was a bait and switch to investigate real corruption in the previous administration.

While I am against other nations meddling in US elections, if letting "Russia win" means Hillary isn't our President, we are far better off. Hillary has taken $100+ million from Russian interests, anyone saying Trump is more of a Russian stooge than Hillary is lying or clueless.

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
While I am against other nations meddling in US elections, if letting "Russia win" means Hillary isn't our President, we are far better off. Hillary has taken $100+ million from Russian interests, anyone saying Trump is more of a Russian stooge than Hillary is lying or clueless.

See? Right here, you have just proved the OP's point. You bought the Russian package.

You aren't the only one, but this is a good example of how well it has worked. You believe that a foreign adversary manipulating, influencing, or directly involving itself is a good thing, because you believe their propaganda mills.

It's working, so I don't see the Russians changing this tactic.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Kettu

Well, sadly a big part of the problem is that Russia has spent time, resources and more importantly -- money on our politicians. Many in Washington DC have likely accepted Russian oligarch money. Some may realize it, and this could explain the foot-dragging. Others may just recently be learning that some of their SuperPAC donations actually originated from dirty Russian mafia sources.

Do you think this is something new. Does anyone think we do not do the same. One thing we do know is EVERYONE had a chance to play with the Russians, some more than others, but all of it is not new and is part of the norm for the political arena.

The only reason why it is a big deal today is because people can not accept a Hillary loss and so it must have been external forces that did it.

Here, listen to this idiot/guy.





Congressman Pencilneck and russian hacking

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
While I am against other nations meddling in US elections, if letting "Russia win" means Hillary isn't our President, we are far better off. Hillary has taken $100+ million from Russian interests, anyone saying Trump is more of a Russian stooge than Hillary is lying or clueless.

You aren't the only one, but this is a good example of how well it has worked. You believe that a foreign adversary manipulating, influencing, or directly involving itself is a good thing

"I am against other nations meddling in US elections "

Hello, are you brain damaged? Hillary's Foundation has received millions of dollars from Russian interests (which she uses to finance her lifestyle of limos, private jets, 5 star hotels etc.), that's not Russian propaganda, it's fact.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: AboveBoard

Guess you didn't check in with Bernie, Donna or Elizabeth...or the ocean of other people who say the same.

Baffled why some people continue to hold water for HRC.

I am tired of "Bernie should have won" because, frankly, he lost. He was not robbed. I voted for him in the primaries because I liked some of his ideas. I let it go when he lost, in spite of Russia trying to help him take Dow HRC.

Donna is not a trustworthy person. Elizabeth is not being fair minded and the facts do not bear out for any "Bernie was robbed" narrative.

It's amazing to me the Loyalty you have to someone who lost the Presidential Election.

You voted for Sanders, yet you don't believe the DNC favored one side over the other?

You have to be blind and deaf quite honestly not to see the evidence. Keep holding water for her.

Hi pavil.

Bernie wasn't a Democrat. He's always been an Independent. He used the Dems in order to gain a more legitimate platform and the money and assistance of the DNC.

There were loyalists within the DNC who naturally resented this.

I am an Independent. I've voted for Republicans in local, State and National elections before if they were, in my opinion, a better candidate.

The Emperor God/ She Devil narrative is really stale. History, assuming we survive Trump with democracy intact, will not be kind to those who created it and kept it alive.

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Painterz
But now Trump is the establishment, the ATS membership have largely stuck with him. Illustrating interesting things I think about the psychology of the Trump Cult Of Personality. (Like it or loathe it, it is A Thing.)

I think there are plenty of people here questioning him.

Yes but then they get shouted at and bullied and called names like lefty and libtard and people start saying Hillary did some stuff and then the thread goes to #.

Aye, that's a big problem. Not a single thread can be started to ask questions about if there's anything in any of these allegations that cast light on Trump, because the dogpile of alt-righters charges in to throw insults around and totally destroy any attempt at serious investigation or examination.

And of course the stars of passive-aggressive support.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, the stars need to be taken away for political postings, and the mud pit needs to be removed completely. Before this places degenerates completely.

Yep.

That's why we can't have nice things anymore, like civil discussion.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Poroshenko wasn't Russia's choice in the 2014 Ukraine election. It was Dobkin.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: AboveBoard

With the Clintons, it goes back much further than the 90s to find where their money (and thus to whom they are beholden) originates, one has to look here:

The Stephens family has provided the Clintons with crucial help, both private and public. They became the Clintons' financial advisers and portfolio managers in 1976; a Stephens executive, William Smith, handled their account at the firm until 1984. During four of those Years, Clinton was governor, and the state awarded Stephens millions of dollars in bond-underwriting contracts. In 1990 the Stephens family gave financial assurances that helped Clinton secure a $50,000 bank loan in the last days of his closely contested gubernatorial campaign. And in March 1992, in the dicey days before the Super Tuesday primaries, Worthen Bank extended a $3.5 million line of credit to Clinton's campaign. The Federal Reserve is examining whether that act violated a federal law prohibiting securities firms from controlling bank operations.

The rise of the Stephenses meant new business for Little Rock's sleepy law firms. Foremost among them was Rose, where Hillary worked from 1976 through 1992, and where she did business deals and legal work that now put her at the center of the Whitewater probe. With her help, her three closest friends in the firm obtained key jobs in the administration: Webster Hubbell, now associate attorney general; William Kennedy III, who was a Rose managing partner and who is now associate White House counsel, and the late Vincent Foster, the former White House deputy counsel, whose suicide last July is also under investigation.

Newsweek

And yes, all of the above relates to what is happening today. The Rose law firm mentioned above is where Mary Jacoby (wife of Fusion GPS founder, Glenn Simpson) worked for Hillary as a file clerk. Her father worked for the Stephenses for a long long time.

And you are showing me this because??? You think this is somehow worse than Trump or any other politician? Should Clinton have zero connections with other long-time Little Rock AK related figures and individuals? Wouldn't it be impossible to not know people? Fusion worked for Republicans before the Clinton campaign bought out the oppo. What does that have to do with someone Hilary knew way back when?

I'm going to be as clear on this as I can.

I believe Trump Administration is the most corrupt America has ever seen in its structure and equally corrupt in its intent to suck more money and resources up to he very top tier of our already bloated American Oligarchy.

I am equally blown away that people in Trump's camp (not saying you specifically, but in general) can't see this just like you guys are blown away that I can't see how "horrible" Clinton is in your eyes. I get that.

Both sides thinks the other doesn't have "real dirt" on their favorite. I'm not quite that bad, really, in that I can see how Clinton's many years "in the game" both allowed her to become the first woman Presidential canditiate of note, and also created a network of favors that ALL major political candidates have. NONE of them get up there without a pile of favors and friends with expectations.

The Clinton Foundation is a massive organization that was also imperfect, but had lofty goals and also did good in the world. (I know the thought that she's done anything good makes some people crazy here but truth is truth.)

Most of what people hat about her are manufactured stories from agent provocateur types.

I have had people calling me "clueless" here just because I see this from a different angle. I guess I can't hang with all the cool kids who high five each other over their Clinton insults, many of which are based in Russian troll farm lies and long-time political trolls on the right, right here in America.

Clinton ain't perfect, no question about that. To say that she is somehow worse than other Presidential candidates is a product of decades of disinformation and, frankly, trying to put down a woman who dared step into The Boys Club of power.

Thank you for not insulting me, by the way. I appreciate that.