Vegas flight records reveal well-planned air assault and elaborate getaway extraction all possible

a reply to: Shamrock6

so they had 2 or more anti collision lights on but turned their transponder off, that makes no sense.


if they were so concerned about other aircraft why turn off the transponder while your in the air?

a reply to: penroc3

I wasn't flying the aircraft, so how would I know?

a reply to: penroc3

The transponder being off has nothing to do with anticollision light patterns. You see what you see, and I don't see it. It looks like a helo with multiple AC lights on it, engaging in something than straight and level flying to me. If you see "100% gun shots" that's fine.

a reply to: Shamrock6

i will have to agree now i don't see gunshots 100% BUT the flashes are of different light temperature and quality so that would require more than 2 different colored strobes on a single aircraft, is it possible? yes. is it possible it is an optical illusion?yes? is it impossible that its gunshots? no.

i spend allot of time around aircraft and sometimes helicopters, iv seen some strange light patterns but never one so out of sync. and iv never been on ANY flight where they turned their transponders off.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Yet another huge flaw in the theory that you don't seem to understand, and apparently don't want to understand. As I said in the other thread, that's not their actual transponder, that's their ADS-B. FlightRadar24 doesn't track their actual Mode A or Mode C, it tracks their Mode S transponder. Just because a flight doesn't show up on FR24 doesn't mean they have no transponder activated, it only means they don't have Mode S active. Only the tower and ATC will see Mode A or Mode C.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Any thoughts on the lights in video #3?

a reply to: penroc3

They're not flying with the transponder off, they're flying with Mode S off. FlightRadar24 doesn't see the transponder without Mode S active. The tower sees the other modes on the transponder that no one else can see without a way to interrogate them, which FR24 doesn't have.

a reply to: Shamrock6

If you're talking about the helicopter to the right in the very beginning of the video, they look like normal strobe lights. They normally have one either on the top of the engine, near the exhaust, or on top of the tail boom, and one under the fuselage on the bottom.

a reply to: Zaphod58

ahh, i will strike that from my argument. but why flip modes? seems very unnecessary considering the events on the ground.


im going to have to watch it again

a reply to: Zaphod58

The one in the video DerBeob posted under the OP, if that's the one you mean, yes. Thanks

a reply to: penroc3

Depending on what they're doing, they aren't required to broadcast Mode S, if they even have it. They only have to have their Mode A/C active for the tower. ADS-B won't be mandated on all aircraft until 2020.

a reply to: penroc3

lights still look strange to me.


but i will take the L on the flight radar

a reply to: Shamrock6

Yeah, that's the one.

a reply to: penroc3

Transponders are used to provide air traffic control data to assist in providing seperation for aircraft operating under instrument flight rules. ATC does not provide separation for VFR (visual flight rules). I have had ATC request that a transponder be turned off or placed on standby which has the same result, except it keeps the transponder warmed up. For instance, if a number of aircraft are flying in formation, the transponder reply data blocks might mask each other, so ATC will ask all the aircraft except one to turn them off. Also, if Mode S SSR signal is degraded, you can be instructed to go stanby. I would also be interested to know if the radar screen in the video was configured to show Mode A replies, Mode S replies, Mode C, and/or 978 MHz UAT transponders. Lack of a data block does not necessarily mean the t'ponder was turned off.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: penroc3

The transponder being off has nothing to do with anticollision light patterns. You see what you see, and I don't see it. It looks like a helo with multiple AC lights on it, engaging in something than straight and level flying to me. If you see "100% gun shots" that's fine.

It seems to me a little like the transponder mode is something of a distraction, since we don't actually know if they were indeed on or off without consulting someone a the ATC at the time, but if other behaviour by the helicopters seems to indicate a rationale for actually turning transponders off, then it is still a viable scenario.
It does seem that some of the aircraft with ID were hovering at some time in the area rather than a linear pattern of travel as the guy at Mustang LLC described.
There is also the airliner ID that seems to also be attributed to a helicopter, while that airliner was delayed on the ground far away, whatever.
Then this police helicopter crew arming themselves for flight, seemingly with something a tad more than a pea shooter, when would you use stuff like that over a city? so there needs to be something more mundane or rather, routine a reason for that operation..like transporting arms for police on the ground for instance by request, and there was definitely other shooting going on..which took a while to come out, and if it was 'just' criminal activity, those criminals were thinking on their feet, instead of getting pissed at the weekend.
To boot, a lot of info changed as the time went by, Loopy Linda upstaged the Sheriff on the timeline of Paddocks stay at the Mandalay Hotel for instance, even if she is a bit of a tit, and there was also the audio recording that the Mandalay released of firing that occurred in the hotel, before the shooter started firing on the crowd, as well as the Bellagio episode.

It's where the helicopters were hovering over the parking garage and another over the Delano hotel and the duration that is suspect, particularly in light of the fact there were in the area from which gunfire was being directed towards the concert grounds. There's no landing pad for choppers there, what were they doing there? Transponders and lights are ancillary issues to the where and whens of these helicopters.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Not if they were police helicopters trying to determine what was going on.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Not if they were police helicopters trying to determine what was going on.

Flight N911WY shows up identified as Las Vegas Police Department about 4 minutes after the other aircraft leave. It was the only chopper using a searchlight and it circled the Mandalay then did a quick hop to the airport. If those were other police helicopters they didn't show up as such, also why would they be there before the shooting?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

If they weren't police they were probably sightseeing or private helicopters waiting clearance to land, and once word of the shooting got to the airport they would have been put on hold until they figured out what was happening.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Or for that matter, they might have been filming the concert. Aerial footage of big outdoor events isn't uncommon, we hold a concert in town that usually pulls in 10-20k people yearly, and I always notice plenty of helicopter activity during the show.