Why Manafort will walk.....

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Trump pardoned Arpaio. Joe Flipping Arpaio.

No one said Trump was the sort of guy to do what is right. Arpaio should have faced the consequences of his actions, but Trump is like any other swampy politician and used his position to help his friend.

If anyone has dirt on Trump and Mueller is turning the clamps on their thumbs...don't you think Trump would pardon them? I do. Anyone who has dirt on Trump would have been assured a pardon the day Trump was elected. I don't believe otherwise.

That could be, but I still find the OP's assertion to be illogical.

Manafort faces some pretty serious charges. If he were to be granted immunity for turning on someone else, it would be a big "someone else".

And if Trump uses his pardons in such a manner, we can say he is corrupt.

ETA: The DOJ may be able to offer immunity...but Trump can offer a full pardon, at any time. He wins.

Sure he can, but will the people allow Trump another term if he uses his power to pardon to protect himself and his friends?

In such a scenario, even his supporters should be pissed.

Should be. Doesn't mean they will be.

originally posted by: introvert
And if Trump uses his pardons in such a manner, we can say he is corrupt.

And that's different how than what is already said about him?

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(BTW, I think Arpaio's case should have moved forward, too, but maybe not for the same reasons.)

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ETA: I don't see why his supporters would take issue with any pardons he gives. They always have Marc Rich to point to.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

And that's different how than what is already said about him?

It is proof that he is corrupt and is no different than those he claimed to want to drain the swamp of.

What people say is one thing. Trump proving it with his actions is another.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Tell it to Bernie Madoff.

Hey im praying they all go to jail, but with the track record of past deeds by corrupt politicians, or rich bankers, they usually dont do any jail time.

a reply to: introvert

Like I said, the bar has been set very low on presidential pardons.

I wouldn't blame any Trump supporter for not being outraged about some self-preservation type pardons. There's no precedent for that kind of outrage.

a reply to: dukeofjive696969

I agree. History shows that the 'special prosecutor' always indicts fall guys after months of getting people's hopes up.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: introvert

Like I said, the bar has been set very low on presidential pardons.

I wouldn't blame any Trump supporter for not being outraged about some self-preservation type pardons. There's no precedent for that.

I would blame them for putting the man in office on the premise that he would be different than the typical DC critter, and then not holding him accountable for his words and actions.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: introvert

Like I said, the bar has been set very low on presidential pardons.

I wouldn't blame any Trump supporter for not being outraged about some self-preservation type pardons. There's no precedent for that.

I would blame them for putting the man in office on the premise that he would be different than the typical DC critter, and then not holding him accountable for his words and actions.

Eh, Obama campaigned on ending the wars and said it was his number one priority. Nothing could be further from the truth and many people died and billions more spent ($807 billion+).

And then his supporters re-elected him.

I think this is less heinous than that.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: introvert

Like I said, the bar has been set very low on presidential pardons.

I wouldn't blame any Trump supporter for not being outraged about some self-preservation type pardons. There's no precedent for that.

I would blame them for putting the man in office on the premise that he would be different than the typical DC critter, and then not holding him accountable for his words and actions.

Eh, Obama campaigned on ending the wars and said it was his number one priority. Nothing could be further from the truth and many people died and billions more spent ($807 billion+).

And then his supporters re-elected him.

I think this is less heinous than that.

And that is exactly why I say Trump is nothing more than Obama 2.0.

I wasn't dumb enough to vote for Obama and why anyone would be dumb enough to vote for Trump, when his campaign used the same premise, is beyond me.

Lawnewz? LMAO!

No, he won't walk. He's screwed. He can't really flip or he'll end up dead and if he goes to trial, he's looking at a long time.

a reply to: introvert

I do not disagree.

It is what it is though. Trump could end this at any time with pardons and it wouldn't bury him. The bar has been set very low.

So, as long as it is allowed to continue, then I continue to believe that it's a contrived, controlled, and convenient scandal that will never be the ruin for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I do not disagree.

It is what it is though. Trump could end this at any time with pardons and it wouldn't bury him. The bar has been set very low.

It all depends on the integrity of his supporters.

He was voted in to be different and drain the swamp. If they have any integrity, honesty and balls, they would hold him accountable for such corrupt acts. But I do not have faith that would be the case.

So, as long as it is allowed to continue, then I continue to believe that it's a contrived, controlled, and convenient scandal that will never be the ruin for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

I do not think it's contrived.

Trump and friends put themselves in this position out of ignorance and arrogance.

a reply to: introvert

Even if they looked the other way on pardons...they would still be showing more integrity than Obama supporters have ever showed.

'Draining the swamp' is sort of nebulous...I get visions of sniffing out corruption. Trump wasn't promising to save lives.

'Ending the wars and bringing the troops home'? Obama promised lives would be saved and he lied for votes and dollars.

I'd still think less of Obama supporters even if Trump pardoned himself and was able to get away with that. I already believe Obama has done so much worse with nowhere near the scrutiny.


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Agree to disagree on whether this is contrived or not.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Lawnewz? LMAO!

No, he won't walk. He's screwed. He can't really flip or he'll end up dead and if he goes to trial, he's looking at a long time.

You can laugh at the source all you want. What they stated is true about the search and the naming of the Ukrainian President incorrectly.

And its more likely he was flipped a long time ago and has already been singing.

Podesta and Mercer didn't step down for the fun of it.

a reply to: Vasa Croe
After reading the what the OP wrote here is what I believe is going to happen and go on:

First there is the scope of Mueller, and that is: any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)" — including perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses.

As far as any additional evidence, there is one way it would not be ignored, and that would be within the scope of the warrant, and that is if it was in plain view. For example, lets say you have a file in a drawer, along with say a bit of a hard narcotic in same drawer. The police come in, with a warrant and open the drawer. Yes they do get the file, but the hard narcotic can now be used as part of evidence for another charge, as it was then considered in plain sight, in the course of the original search. Now if the hard narcotics were in the closet and outside of the scope of the warrant, then it would have been illegally gathered up.

It is early to tell what all is going on, however, here is what all I think is going to happen:

He has been indicted, along with Gates, and they both pled not guilty. This gives their attorneys time to go over the evidence found, and look at the charges, and find out all of the information that they can. After seeing the evidence, there will be meetings between the defense and the prosecution. At that time frame, they will start kicking around plea deals, and other discussions. If the evidence is damming enough, there will be attempts to plea deals, and that is where the flipping will happen and those indicted will have a chance to give states evidence. That goes part with any deals and they move onto the next person.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Willtell

Manafort won't get a pardon and doesn't need one with immunity from Mueller.

IF he gets immunity

He doesn't have to if Trump promises to pardon him

Mueller will have to give the case to the state DA

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Willtell

Manafort won't get a pardon and doesn't need one with immunity from Mueller.

IF he gets immunity

He doesn't have to if Trump promises to pardon him

Mueller will have to give the case to the state DA

Trump has no reason to pardon him. He has nothing on Trump personally. Popadopolous and Manafort and Gates, etc are the only ones in jeopardy. Trump hasn't met with nor have any ties directly to him and the Russians been found at all. Sure....apparently these guys attempted to get the meetings, but by every single account, none happened.

Mueller has a great reason to give him immunity...Manafort is the the Heidi Fleiss of the lobby world....he has dirt on LOTS of people and meetings.

Would love to see any recent pics of Manafort or his home to prove he's there. He would have multiple security officers onsite 24/7 if at home.

I am thinking the "house arrest" issued by the judge is because he is actually somewhere else still talking but they are making it easy for him not to appear in public by saying he's at home.

Could definitely be wrong about the last part as its just conspiratorial guessing as is the theory about the whole situation, but with the knowledge this guy has and the number of years and politicians he's worked with....he has a LOT of songs to sing on a LOT of powerful people.

So OP, if you are correct in your theory.'

I am recalling the picture of the Trumps with the Clintons and how Trump was on record as talking about buying politicians back in those days or the Clintons being at his wedding or something like that ...

And I am thinking this is a lot of effort for one person to go to in order to get revenge.

What on earth did they do to him?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I have no reason to dispute any possibility you mention.

But it’s still strange---the first words out of Manafort’s lawyers mouth
was about no Russian collusion.
Looks like an obvious curry favor to Trump

And why would he do that other than to seek a pardon eventually

originally posted by: ketsuko
So OP, if you are correct in your theory.'

I am recalling the picture of the Trumps with the Clintons and how Trump was on record as talking about buying politicians back in those days or the Clintons being at his wedding or something like that ...

And I am thinking this is a lot of effort for one person to go to in order to get revenge.

What on earth did they do to him?

Not sure if it would be revenge for anything, but if I had to guess at a revenge scenario...they used their political clout to either steal or block whatever business deal he was doing somewhere for their own gain mainly to show they could put him in his place....people in power do it all the time.