Why Manafort will walk.....

A. Immunity has been secretly granted for flipping evidence (my opinion)
B. The search was not kosher and garnered evidence outside the scope of the warrant
C. The indictment incorrectly names a key player

lawnewz.com...

During that raid, Mueller’s investigators took documents considered to be covered by attorney-client privilege, sources told CNN. Lawyers from the WilmerHale law firm, representing Manafort at the time, warned Mueller’s office that their search warrant didn’t allow access to attorney materials. The documents in question have now been returned, the sources say.

This goes to the reasoning about the issue of them speaking with Manaforts attorney as a potential party to the crime if they found attorney client privileged info in the raid and went through it illegally.

Then we have the fact that the indictment states

At the direction of MANAFORT and GATES, Company A and Company B engaged in extensive lobbying. Among other things, they lobbied multiple Members of Congress and their staffs about Ukraine sanctions, the validity of Ukraine elections, and the propriety of Yanukovych imprisoning his presidential rival, Yulia Tymoshenko (who had served as Ukraine President prior to Yanukovych)…

The problem with that?

Yulia Tymoshenko was not the president of the Ukraine prior to Yanukovych. In fact, Tymoshenko has never been the president of the Ukraine. She ran in the Ukrainian presidential election against Yanukoych in 2010 and came in second. Tymoshenko ran again in 2014 and came in second then, too.

lawnewz.com...

So a great investigator and an entire team of investigators get something that big wrong in an indictment? WTF?

Anywho....my belief is this was planned and was cover for Manafort to appear as if in trouble while working with the investigation the whole time to bring down larger players.

Have heard wind of both Podestas being indicted this week and another even larger one next week.

Guess only time will tell as far as Manafort walking...

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I think any politician whether right or left breaks the law they should serve time in prison. I'm just sick of these jerks taking advantage of the public trust and the non-billionaire American people.

Personally speaking, I believe Trump has been orchestrating this and is cleaning house in a big way. I also believe it is ego driven for him. He wants to leave the WH with the legacy of giving the American people the largest political corruption case and convictions in history.

Plenty can call me crazy, but everyone has to believe in something right?

Anywho...all of this is better than watching TV for me.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I think any politician whether right or left breaks the law they should serve time in prison. I'm just sick of these jerks taking advantage of the public trust and the non-billionaire American people.

Totally agree. Problem is it takes one of their own to flip on them in order to get the dirt.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Well, I hope he doesn't walk. Of course, there are bigger fish to fry but he, Manafort, deserves to go to jail.

You may be right, after all they can't un-see the documents between him and his attorney.

So what you're saying is that nothing will change and no one will be charged with anything? This whole thing might end up being a nothing burger just like every other headline news talking point over the past few years?

I wouldn't be surprised at all, the actors are playing their parts and the audience is eating it up. How can you throw someone in jail for playing the part they agreed to?

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Personally speaking, I believe Trump has been orchestrating this and is cleaning house in a big way. I also believe it is ego driven for him. He wants to leave the WH with the legacy of giving the American people the largest political corruption case and convictions in history.

Plenty can call me crazy, but everyone has to believe in something right?

Anywho...all of this is better than watching TV for me.

No way he is "orchestrating" this, and that is my opinion. Like you said we all have to believe in something. Too much is far too close to home, for trump to have any control whatsoever about this. Almost every time something goes wrong, he brings up Hillary and Obama, who have 0 to do with what is going on with the trump administration. The man wants you to angry about Hillary, to distract you from coming to the realization Russia indeed is great big triple cheeseburger, oozing with grease.

originally posted by: Plotus
You may be right, after all they can't un-see the documents between him and his attorney.

Bingo. Once taken they also can't prove they didn't look either. This would make anything taken inadmissible in court....an investigator of Muellers calibre doesn't make a mistake like that. If it gets tossed out, you can bet it was planned for a reason, but the speak of his attorney being involved using the "crime-fraud" wording makes me think that they did indeed screw the pooch on the search.

originally posted by: kurthall

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Personally speaking, I believe Trump has been orchestrating this and is cleaning house in a big way. I also believe it is ego driven for him. He wants to leave the WH with the legacy of giving the American people the largest political corruption case and convictions in history.

Plenty can call me crazy, but everyone has to believe in something right?

Anywho...all of this is better than watching TV for me.

No way he is "orchestrating" this, and that is my opinion. Like you said we all have to believe in something. Too much is far too close to home, for trump to have any control whatsoever about this. Almost every time something goes wrong, he brings up Hillary and Obama, who have 0 to do with what is going on with the trump administration. The man wants you to angry about Hillary, to distract you from coming to the realization Russia indeed is great big triple cheeseburger, oozing with grease.

I have no doubt Russia is involved, but not with Trump. The people under investigation are lifetime politicians with PLENTY of Russian contact and connections...to think Trump suddenly comes on scene and suddenly Manafort is shown to have been working for Russian interests since 2004...well.....that is quite a bit before Trumps time and only a few months of even being a part. Manafort had 13 prior years of doing this with MANY others....hence all the freaking out with politicians and lobbyists.

Money talks and most of them will walk, im sure a few minions lower on the totem pole might do some time, but no power player on either side will Go to jail.

Yeah, I wonder how they missed Yulia Tymoshenko being Prime Minister ?

Could be a planted intentional "mistake".

Look at how many immunity deals (at least two of which were violated by the ones being granted immunity) were handed out in the email investigation.

The simple simon mistakes outlined in your OP show either a blatant intent to throw the investigation or utter incompetence by those doing the investigating.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Indictments do not have to be 100% accurate, nor does the evidence in a grand jury have to meet the evidentiary standards of a trial.

Your concerns may be slightly justified because the reality is that Manafort is a big player in politics and therefore will have a better chance of exploiting technicalities, but as long as evidence that was gathered incorrectly or that has wrong information is not entered into evidence during trial, it doesn't matter.

A grand jury is not a part of the trial, it is a completely separate thing--and isn't even mandatory in order to bring charges in court.

Be concerned, but don't worry too much about your three points just yet.

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
The simple simon mistakes outlined in your OP show either a blatant intent to throw the investigation or utter incompetence by those doing the investigating.

They are so diabolically cunning in the Justice Department...it has to be that first thing you said!

a reply to: SlapMonkey

And, yet, I still feel there is something behind these 'errors,' fatal or not.

They undermine the prosecution.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I disagree--it is highly normal for charges at the time of trial to be a bit different from the indictment. Not to mention that superseding indictments can subsequently come along with changes, etc., etc.

Again, be skeptical, for sure, but don't be too concerned yet. It's WAY too early in the process to be able to guess where this is going.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Personally speaking,I believe Trump has been orchestrating this and is cleaning house in a big way. I also believe it is ego driven for him. He wants to leave the WH with the legacy of giving the American people the largest political corruption case and convictions in history.

Plenty can call me crazy, but everyone has to believe in something right?

Anywho...all of this is better than watching TV for me.

its his own people getting caught, you do understand that?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Normal or not, getting basic facts wrong -- like who was president of the Ukraine a couple of years ago -- undermines the prosecution. It's a basic fact that can be easily researched. With as many people who have probably helped proofread and prepare the indictment...nobody caught it?

Was that intentional or incompetence?

Either way, it undermines the prosecution, now.

And maybe later, too.

originally posted by: cinerama

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Personally speaking,I believe Trump has been orchestrating this and is cleaning house in a big way. I also believe it is ego driven for him. He wants to leave the WH with the legacy of giving the American people the largest political corruption case and convictions in history.

Plenty can call me crazy, but everyone has to believe in something right?

Anywho...all of this is better than watching TV for me.

its his own people getting caught, you do understand that?

It's long time politicians getting caught....ones that have been doing this for much longer than Trump has been in politics...decades longer.