Multiple people down in shooting at Colorado Walmart: police

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: SunnyDee

you don't see any Muslims standing up against terrorists

Watch them and weep...

...in case you don't watch videos.

and with that, he is ghost.

a reply to: Bluesma
You're in our thoughts...hope everything is OK.
JC

in Colorado?

So how long do you think it will take before mary jane is blamed for the incident, or linked to it in some way?

a reply to: ZombieWoof

You must be one of those people I was talking about.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Bluesma
You're in our thoughts...hope everything is OK.
JC

Thanks. I have had news, he's fine. Flying back home. Seems they set out for Walmart, drove by it, but decided to go to another store instead. Looks like the protection spell I had sent out when he left worked.

Still sad for the families of those victims though. Hope they catch the guy. People shouldn't be able to get away with doing stuff like that.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: 3daysgone

My point is that if it's a brown guy then it suddenly speaks for all brown people, but if it's a white guy then it only speaks for him as an individual and not all white people.

Are you denying that that isn't usually the case? Do you deny that there are some who will use this guy's actions as a wedge against all gun owners in the same exact way?

I’ve never heard that before. Who said one Brown person speaks for all Brown people?

originally posted by: Bluesma
Hope they catch the guy. People shouldn't be able to get away with doing stuff like that.

They just caught him. Identified as 47-year old Scott Ostrem.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I've never heard it either but judging by some people's reactions that seems to be what they think.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: JBurns
I don't know what the self defense laws in Colorado, but those who are able to carry a weapon for self defense should seriously consider doing so.

Having a gun might lull your average citizen into a false sense of security but at the end if the day are more likely to shoot another civilian, or miss entirely. All this bravado from people who think guns are a good thing is so sickening.

That is untrue. As a former LEO for several decades, I can say I've never even heard of a case where a Citizen CCW holder mistakenly shot the wrong target. Not everyone carries a firearm for active shooter defense (although it would be helpful). Most of us carry to defend ourselves from muggings, violent assaults, deadly killers in the streets etc.

Less guns is not the proper solution: as we saw in NYC criminals will always find a deadly weapon. More guns, much more, is what is required to properly oppose all criminals and terrorists.

Freedom comes with responsibility, but the people in our country aren't giving up anything involving the second amendment. If anything, we need to push for national reciprocity for non-LE people so they can carry at all times. Citizens who choose to pack a firearm don't do so lightly, and have usually undergone a considerable degree of training (on legal issues, basic shooting qualification, etc.. a little less than your average new LEO goes through, shooting wise).

I can show you 2 dozen cases where armed Citizens stopped a murderous criminal in their tracks with a firearm. Can you show me even one case where an armed Citizen shot the wrong person?

When you have a violent criminal charging you with a knife, you need a firearm. Firearms are the most efficient means to putting down an attacker, bar none.

If you have a person using a vehicle as a weapon, you need a firearm. Modern defensive ammo from .380 auto up will punch through windshields and car bodies while retaining enough weight/energy to enter the target and shut him/her down. .380, 9X19, .40, .45, 10mm - all are great defensive cartridges.

More important than cartridge selection is making sure that your CCW is comfortable in your hands, that you are effective with firing a "fast" speed (slow is smooth, smooth is fast) and that you can get sufficient number of rounds into your target's vital areas to either 1) destroy the CNS causing quick incapacitation or 2) cause enough bleeding to induce shock also resulting in incapacitation.

Those who can carry should do so, if comfortable with the responsibility of being an armed Citizen. Those who do not wish to, well, I still recommend purchasing some LE used IIIA body armor from ebay. You can pick up a used vest for around $50, and from my own testing they will still stop bullets. I've shot my vest with an array of handgun calibers and even buckshot and the vest stopped them (with significant backface deformation on the 12ga )

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What will we all say if he's Asian?

Well surprise surprise, another angry loser white guy clutching his guns & bibles goes on a mass killing spree.

Man who killed three in Colorado Walmart was ‘angry’ loner with no furniture but stacks of Bibles

www.rawstory.com...

He was particularly hostile, she added, to Hispanics. “He wouldn’t say nothing to us, but he talked to the only white couple who lives here,” Muniz recalled. “I don’t understand where that hatred comes from.”

K~

originally posted by: aethertek
Well surprise surprise, another angry loser white guy clutching his guns & bibles goes on a mass killing spree.

Man who killed three in Colorado Walmart was ‘angry’ loner with no furniture but stacks of Bibles

www.rawstory.com...

He was particularly hostile, she added, to Hispanics. “He wouldn’t say nothing to us, but he talked to the only white couple who lives here,” Muniz recalled. “I don’t understand where that hatred comes from.”

K~

Zzzzzzz😴

a reply to: aethertek


That is an extremely bigoted and discriminatory thing to say.

Race/religion have no connection to violence.

Firearms have nothing to do with this, as the recent attacks have shown - criminals/terrorists will use whatever deadly weapons they have available (cars, knives, firearms, gasoline, hands/feet, etc).

Furthermore, how does this conspiracy theory you're pushing fit into the shooting at Starbucks in Chicago today? Was that another white guy clinging to a Bible? Absolutely not, and the implication is disgusting. You can do better than that.

Racism and biggotry are not acceptable. Given your apparent stance on several issues this should be clear to you.

a reply to: JBurns

Mass shooting in America? 99.9% of the time angry right-wing white guy, so say the stats.

Argue those.

K~

a reply to: aethertek


For starters, lets look at your figures: 99.9%. Really? May I ask you to cite your source?

To my knowledge, demographics regarding terrorist attacks and mass shootings do not include the race of the perpetrator. It may be contained within some vital statistics information, but otherwise is irrelevant.

There has been research conducted throughout the years to answer the question of whether or not race/religion was a predictor of violent/extremist behavior. It was concluded (rightfully so) that race and religion do not predict violence/atrocity.

Either way, racism is not OK.

White Men Have Committed More Mass Shootings than Any Other Group
www.newsweek.com...

Fine I'll drop it to 58% of the time still whats the matter with all these right-wing wackjobs going on killing sprees.

Caveat, the only criteria for mass killings is 4 or more, hell a standard drive by could cover that many, so beyond the numbers look at the reasoning behind the kills.

White guys with their guns & bibles are killing for no reason other than to kill, what's white Americas problem that keeps producing these psychos.

Mother Jones magazine has collated a database of American mass shootings that extends from 1982 to now. It contains a grievous record of 91 crimes where a shooter killed at least four victims. The race of the shooter was coded as unknown or unclear in three cases. Of the 88 remaining shootings, 51 (58%) were committed by whites. Read more at: phys.org...

phys.org...

K~

a reply to: aethertek

58% of the time is more accurate, but that number doesn't take into account the higher percentage of the population who are Caucasian. If you were to adjust that number for population you would see it is no less or higher than other races. This is exactly why race doesn't predict violence.

When you attempt to stereotype all white people with firearms you are no better than people who blame all Muslims for Islamic terror or all AA's for gang violence in Chicago - it is a logical fallacy.

Mass murder has nothing to do with being white or whether you choose to exercise your second amendment rights. It has everything to do with a criminal/terrorist who has decided they have the right to deprive you of your life. Firearms have never killed a single person - people kill other people using whatever deadly instrument they can get their hands on.

Firearms are necessary for defense of self and state precisely due to their lethal nature. A deadly weapon is the most appropriate tool to thwart a dangerous attacker. In order to stop an unlawful use of deadly force, you must either disable the attacker's central nervous system or cause them to lose enough blood to cause shock. There is no other tool available (besides a rifle) that can as readily and reliably produce the desired result of stopping an attacker before they can carry out their deadly act.

Attempting to blame firearms or an entire race of people for the actions of an individual (we're all responsible for our own acts, no one else) is not the answer. I reject this as a solution, and call on my fellow Citizens to reject it as well.

a reply to: aethertek

And of course by percentage of population I mean multiplying or dividing where needed to get an accurate look at all demographics.

Why is MotherJones only looking at shootings, though?

Are knife murders any less deadly? Are car murders any less deadly? Are murders with hands or feet any less deadly?

Taking a look at only firearm murders is a dishonest practice - murder as a whole is the problem, and not any one specific pet type.

Fact: fewer Americans die from gun related causes than vehicle related incidents in a year. Have you taken any steps to examine the race of those involved in vehicular deaths? Can you see why that would be silly?

a reply to: aethertek

Furthermore, in your OP, you somehow make a correlation between "whites" and "right wing."

Can you also explain this correlation? Or was that simply your bias and bigotry showing again, where you assume anyone that is white must also be right wing?

To do so exposes yet another logical fallacy in your original argument.