My Fellow Americans, Why Are We Such Suckers ?

a reply to: seagull

Don't forget that a lot of people have been sympathizing with 1930s Germany figures & ideologies lately. So they may not even see your comparison as a bad thing.

a reply to: Liquesence

I can promise you this....If a certain religion (let's just use Scientology for the sake of an example) suddenly began to kill innocent people who were just out doing everyday things, and finished every massacre with "Praise Hubbard!", I would expect that after a few of these types of attacks, common sense would dictate a look-see at what is being taught in that religion to make people suddenly turn violent.

a reply to: queenofswords

OH, are you alright with surveillance on your own bad self, too? Who knows, you might be dangerous to me and mine. Actually, your attitude towards people who've done nothing to you is dangerous.

I'm hyperventilating, am I? Who again is advocating mass surveillance, and who is advocating removing innocents from this country? ...and I'm the one over-reacting? Spare me.

I live in peace with my neighbors. I feel no need to peer into their living rooms, nor their bedrooms. I care not in the slightest what God they worship.

I will judge them by their actions, not their thoughts. Nor would I see them harmed on "might".

Should this stupidity ever come to pass? Guess who I'll be on the side of. Go ahead, guess.

a reply to: Liquesence

Sort of like lumping all Muslims in the same group as the Islamic extremists (terrorists) who pervert and use Islamic teachings to justify their own violent means?

You mean, like that?

No, I mean intolerance of those who hold different opinions than oneself, like I said.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I'm sure the innocent ones burned at the stake in this witch hunt will agree.

I'm sure all the Jews cast out/murdered in various pogroms all over Europe and elsewhere would agree.

Are you people even listening to yourselves? My Muslim neighbors have earned the right to be judged on their own merits, not judged by a bunch of knee jerk idiots who want to burn down the f'n village in order to "save it".

To answer the analogy put forward by the OP. I'll take my chances. Something tells me I might be safer with the Muslims in the long run than some of you. Who becomes the next "enemy"?

All I was trying to say in the OP is:

Things are crazy enough without importing more problems.

I think we should pause. Look at the lotto system.

I am not talking about hurting anyone.

Just making sure we aren't importing new problems.

Who knew that would be so controversial.

a reply to: queenofswords

You're over-reacting, hyperventilating, and closing your mind to what is actually being said.

Lmao. Oh, that's rich.

Overreacting and close-mindedness you say? Pot, meet kettle.

It is people like you that prevent a closer scrutiny of what is causing someone who is a neighbor and peaceful for years to suddenly become a raving mad religious lunatic.

No, it's people like us who don't knee-jerk and overreact by trying to lump all Muslims in with extremists/terrorists.
⬆️ THAT is close-mindedness.

a reply to: seagull

I'm sure the innocent ones burned at the stake in this witch hunt will agree.

I'm sure all the Jews cast out/murdered in various pogroms all over Europe and elsewhere would agree.

Are you people even listening to yourselves? My Muslim neighbors have earned the right to be judged on their own merits, not judged by a bunch of knee jerk idiots who want to burn down the f'n village in order to "save it".

To answer the analogy put forward by the OP. I'll take my chances. Something tells me I might be safer with the Muslims in the long run than some of you. Who becomes the next "enemy"?

Talk is talk. You can listen and speak your mind and judge whatever you want until the cows come home and not suffer a single injury. That's the beauty of living in a free society. When we're speaking of terrorism, that is the murder of human beings for ideological purposes, it's a whole different ball game.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

They'd do well to remember 1940's germany, too.

We were on the sides of the angels that time...odd how things change.

As I said in my last post, should this madness ever happen, I'll bid this country a not so fond "good riddance" as I walk out with you.

Because it'll no longer be a country with any redeeming value, what so ever.

a reply to: seagull

They'd do well to remember 1940's germany, too.

We were on the sides of the angels that time...odd how things change.

As I said in my last post, should this madness ever happen, I'll bid this country a not so fond "good riddance" as I walk out with you.

Because it'll no longer be a country with any redeeming value, what so ever.

Move to Germany. They've criminalized criticism of religions. You'd be nice and safe there.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: queenofswords

OH, are you alright with surveillance on your own bad self, too? Who knows, you might be dangerous to me and mine. Actually, your attitude towards people who've done nothing to you is dangerous.

I'm hyperventilating, am I? Who again is advocating mass surveillance, and who is advocating removing innocents from this country? ...and I'm the one over-reacting? Spare me.

I live in peace with my neighbors. I feel no need to peer into their living rooms, nor their bedrooms. I care not in the slightest what God they worship.

I will judge them by their actions, not their thoughts. Nor would I see them harmed on "might".

Should this stupidity ever come to pass? Guess who I'll be on the side of. Go ahead, guess.

You ARE hyperventilating.

I don't advocate any of those things.

Read my posts.

People kill everyday. Gangs. Domestic Violence. Robberies. Anger. Psychopaths. Revenge. Jealously.

But, when the killing is done in the name of a religion or ideological belief, it is time to look at that ideology and ask ourselves some questions honestly and forthrightly.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Gee, I agree with all that.

Yet we have a, thankfully small minority who would punish on a "maybe". Judge the entirety on the actions of a portion. I will fight them on a computer screen to the last, then on the streets, as need be.

I'll be called any number of things for that attitude, I suppose. But I will not see innocents persecuted and not say anything. Or hide them, comes to that.

Call it enlightened self-interest. Call it doing the right thing. Call it whatever the heck you want. Because I'll eventually be on that list of "enemies", too.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Liquesence

Sort of like lumping all Muslims in the same group as the Islamic extremists (terrorists) who pervert and use Islamic teachings to justify their own violent means?

You mean, like that?

No, I mean intolerance of those who hold different opinions than oneself, like I said.

Which is like lumping all Muslims in with extremists, which is in itself intolerance for belief.

a reply to: Liquesence

No knee-jerking here.

But, if one of those people that lay dead on the road with a twisted bicycle next to her were your sister or best friend, you would probably be saying the same thing. Isn't it time we look closely at how someone that has lived in our neighborhood, gone to school with our kids, worked side by side with us, can suddenly go from a peaceful muslim to a "Allahu Akbar" screaming maniac that mows down our fellow citizens.

a reply to: Liquesence

Which is like lumping all Muslims in with extremists, which is in itself intolerance for belief.

Without generalizing, conversation would be impossible. I think the onus is on you and any other listener to not confuse language with reality.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Liquesence

No knee-jerking here.

But, if one of those people that lay dead on the road with a twisted bicycle next to her were your sister or best friend, you would probably be saying the same thing. Isn't it time we look closely at how someone that has lived in our neighborhood, gone to school with our kids, worked side by side with us, can suddenly go from a peaceful muslim to a "Allahu Akbar" screaming maniac that mows down our fellow citizens.

I would say the same for anyone who happened to snap; I wouldn't condemn or demonize the entire group. Hastily demonizing or condemning the entire group is knee-jerk.

Just saying.

a reply to: queenofswords

Yet, you're headed down that very road.

My neighbors, some of whom happen to be Muslim, as you may have guessed, have done none of that. They've lived in this country, as a family for over a century and a half, they've served honorably in its military in at least one case--probably more. Yet you would blame them for the actions of others.

You aren't advocating that. Nope. You, however, seem to be if not actively supporting those who do, you're at least willing to look the other way.

I'm not. It's that simple.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I'm sure the innocent ones burned at the stake in this witch hunt will agree.

I'm sure all the Jews cast out/murdered in various pogroms all over Europe and elsewhere would agree.

Are you people even listening to yourselves? My Muslim neighbors have earned the right to be judged on their own merits, not judged by a bunch of knee jerk idiots who want to burn down the f'n village in order to "save it".

To answer the analogy put forward by the OP. I'll take my chances. Something tells me I might be safer with the Muslims in the long run than some of you. Who becomes the next "enemy"?

All I was trying to say in the OP is:

Things are crazy enough without importing more problems.

I think we should pause. Look at the lotto system.

I am not talking about hurting anyone.

Just making sure we aren't importing new problems.

Who knew that would be so controversial.

I know, life was so much simpler when we could just hate the Mexicans. Those were the good old days eh?

I don't think the wall will stop many Muslims though.

a reply to: seagull

Most of my close family already have passports, and over the past year or so have been keeping a close eye on the situation.

But I don't think I could personally leave because I'm helping raise my young nephew. His mom is a black Caribbean immigrant who became a citizen a few years ago & his stepdad is a deeply conservative right wing white guy (you know what they say, love conquers all lol). I have no problem with interracial relationships & they even have a multiracial child now, but I'm pretty sure their family would be one of the families targeted by these bigots & their proposals.

So I guess I'd have to take after my granddad & help fight against the Nazis again. Like they say, history doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes.

a reply to: seagull

Gee, I agree with all that.

Yet we have a, thankfully small minority who would punish on a "maybe". Judge the entirety on the actions of a portion. I will fight them on a computer screen to the last, then on the streets, as need be.

I'll be called any number of things for that attitude, I suppose. But I will not see innocents persecuted and not say anything. Or hide them, comes to that.

Call it enlightened self-interest. Call it doing the right thing. Call it whatever the heck you want. Because I'll eventually be on that list of "enemies", too.

I think that's honorable and I agree. But looking out into the world seeing the religious fascism, the theocracy, the terrorism, the persecution, the totalitarianism, there is one particular religion at the root of it. The moderates, the critics,the reformers, many of whom are members of that religion, have all been drowned out, silenced, even murdered. So if the voices showing opposition begin to sound more and more frightening the further we get along, it's because we refused to stand up and defend the moderate ones.

a reply to: whyamIhere

I really must disagree with your premise. I don't want terrorists living in our cities and towns.

But I do want to live in a free society.

So, unfortunately, we must expect this from time to time.