A possible fix to our political system??

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
Was it worth being nice to Bob in hindsight, or should Bob have fended for himself from the beginning?

I try not to let hypothetical people move in.

Publicly Funded Elections!!! No money from anyone but the collective called "We The People".

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
Was it worth being nice to Bob in hindsight, or should Bob have fended for himself from the beginning?

I try not to let hypothetical people move in.

That doesn't answer the scenario.

Hypothetically, what if the government said you *had* to let Hypothetical Bob move in?

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Publicly Funded Elections!!! No money from anyone but the collective called "We The People".

It'd be more fun to just require our "representatives" to wear their "corporate sponsors" logos on their suits.

We could even make them run around an oval and make "vroom" noises.

originally posted by: aethertek
No # Sherlock.

Try starting with that Republican travesty called Citizens United.
You know the one where ,,, corporations are people & money equals speech.

K~

and unions, don't forget they benefited just as much as corporations did from that ruling.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I'm not the one complaining. My taxes are just about right for my situation.

Well, I am complaining. My effective tax rate is around 47% by the time you factor in federal, state, local, and hidden taxes.

I basically have to work until the last week of June before I start getting into the black.

It just seems to me that if you choose to buy a house and raise a family in a particular community, that is how you decided to invest your life and the lives of your family members.

And that's how most communities, at least in my state, are run. Local sales and property taxes are higher to fund schools and public services. So it's understandable if someone gets a little peeved when freeloaders work their way in.

Otherwise, it sounds like somebody wants more money to buy a bigger truck or a boat, so screw schools and stop signs and clean water and police. Way to support the community.

So what if someone wants a bigger truck or boat? What business is it of anyones?

I don't know about your local area, but my local metro area is full of waste and graft. Our crime rate is sky high, but we have a "Public Safety Director" who "advises" the local fire and police chiefs while the Director's and his assistants salary are in the seven figure range... for a redundant position.

Want more money? Don't choose a life that costs so much.

I'm more in favor of letting the individual choose what's right for them, and letting them reap the consequences all on their own. Be they rich or poor, doesn't matter.

Equality of opportunity, not forced equity through taxation.

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
Hypothetically, what if the government said you *had* to let Hypothetical Bob move in?

Which hypothetical government is that?

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
analogy

i don't think comparing a freeloading houseguest to millions of citizens who already struggle in their lives and contribute to the system through sales tax and through spending money that helps stimulate the economy is at all accurate. you're basically talking about disenfranchising all those people. do you really see that going in a good direction?

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
Hypothetically, what if the government said you *had* to let Hypothetical Bob move in?

Which hypothetical government is that?

The same one which maintains that if you don't pay the "voluntary" tribut... err... taxes, they will send men with guns to take away your freedom and/or property.

But yeah, it's "voluntary".

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
analogy

i don't think comparing a freeloading houseguest to millions of citizens who already struggle in their lives and contribute to the system through sales tax and through spending money that helps stimulate the economy is at all accurate. you're basically talking about disenfranchising all those people. do you really see that going in a good direction?

Struggle, right. The same ones I see in cars nicer than mine, with the latest gadgets, buying booze and illicit drugs, then going to the local gambling facilities. Yes, they struggle so much.

If it can be shown that a person contributes $0.01 more than they receive in tax benefits per year, they get to vote. That wouldn't exclude very many people, much less millions.

All I'm asking is that to have some say in how resources are spent, one should make a contribution. They should have some skin in the game, if you will.

Ever heard the phrase "Beggars can't be choosers."?

a reply to: cynicalheathen

They don’t do that on the government dime really...

The welfare cash payout is nothing.. it’s garbage..

Here in MS I think the max is 250 a MONTH.

The thought that welfare queens are making bank is laughable.. that shows that those people have never applied for benefits to actually know..

Is there fraud?? Absolutely.

But how anyone could think that is the major problem when tptb are making multi billion dollar backroom deals I have no idea..

a reply to: ketsuko

Not all people, and those on social security and such are definitely upside down.

None of this is even relevant because automation is about to RAPE the pitiful labor force we already have..

Self driving cars ALONE kill like 30% of all jobs basiclly day one..

This whole “they aren’t paying there fair share” mentality is gonna kill us as there is no way for people to pay their way.. work ethic is irrelevant, there will be almost no jobs to do.

a reply to: cynicalheathen

How does your mentality work when automation steals all the jobs tomorrow???

Self driving cars end 30% of all US jobs INSTANTLY.

All the waiters and cashiers will become kiosks. There’s another 15% gone.

And that’s just the beginning..

Plus, there is absolutely no industry poised to take their places..

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
Struggle, right. The same ones I see in cars nicer than mine, with the latest gadgets, buying booze and illicit drugs, then going to the local gambling facilities. Yes, they struggle so much.

look, i don't want to just be dismissive but this kind of statement just works my nerves. you have no idea what someone is going through. you don't have any idea of what the life is like of someone with a nicer car than you. you know about their finances how, exactly?

every citizen deserves to have a say in how our country is run. even the poorest among us. even the homeless. to exclude their voice is to guarantee that the only policies we pass screw them over even worse.

i really don't understand what people like you are so angry about. how terrible that poor people should get help! how awful that they should vote! you sound monstrous and i'm sure you're not generally a monster... but when you say things like that.... it's just disgusting.

a reply to: fiverx313

I disagree..

From his 3 min. Interaction with them while waiting in line at Cosco he knows their whole life story and employment history...

(Sarcasm)

Repeal the 17th Amendment. Senators were not intended to be voted in by the People. Senators were intended to maintain the interests of the State governments, and their legislative powers were enumerated with that in mind.

originally posted by: fiverx313
look, i don't want to just be dismissive but this kind of statement just works my nerves. you have no idea what someone is going through. you don't have any idea of what the life is like of someone with a nicer car than you. you know about their finances how, exactly?

Too bad, and I have a better idea than you think. I deal with the poor and downtrodden on a regular basis. I also have friends, family, and neighbors of all economic situations. I do the best I personally can to help locally, but I give a hand up, not a hand out. I do not enable bad behavior.

A common theme I see in those who are poor is poor decision making and financial management.

I went to public school and got valuable life lessons in how welfare actually works early on. When the kids who *brag* about being on welfare come to school in nicer clothes, cars, and jewelry than you do it's hard not to notice.

I actually got a pretty good lesson in how economics actually works via the "free lunch" program. You see, I had a job, so I had to pay for my own lunch. Some kids got free lunch if they met certain criteria. Well, at the beginning of the year, we could get say, 6 chicken nuggets. About half of the kids who already got the free lunch were greedy, and would steal food. By the end of the year "Oh, you can only get 3 chicken nuggets for the same amount, we're out of money." Kind of a valuable lesson on the economics of "free" stuff at an early age.

every citizen deserves to have a say in how our country is run. even the poorest among us. even the homeless. to exclude their voice is to guarantee that the only policies we pass screw them over even worse.

And to guarantee the people more "free stuff" with every election will only kill the goose that laid the golden egg. When people vote for the politician who promises to give them more of other people's money, something has to give.

I really don't understand what people like you are so angry about. how terrible that poor people should get help! how awful that they should vote! you sound monstrous and i'm sure you're not generally a monster... but when you say things like that.... it's just disgusting.

Who says that "people like me" are angry? I've stated before and I'll state again that I'm not opposed at all to poor people who actually need help getting it. However, if you have more than one TV, iPhone, reliable vehicle, and can afford to drink/do drugs/gamble you are not poor. I have seen true poverty. It is a concrete block building with no running water, central heat, or air conditioning. Poverty is not having a less than 5 year old vehicle, nice clothing, a 60" flat screen and an X-Box.

You're free to be disgusted and call me a monster if you wish. I prefer the term "realist."

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
How does your mentality work when automation steals all the jobs tomorrow???

Someone has to repair the machines.

I should be okay. My job is not mindless and requires quick decision making. I should be good at least until retirement.

Self driving cars end 30% of all US jobs INSTANTLY.

Right up until the first lawsuit when something goes wrong.

All the waiters and cashiers will become kiosks. There’s another 15% gone.

Well at least I won't have to feel obligated to tip 20% anymore.

I for one welcome our new robot overlords.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Actually, my local Costco pays pretty well. I believe $13/hr starting. Hardly poverty level wages.

I grew up in one of the poorest states in the nation, in a working class family, went to public school, and in my adult life deal with a wide range of people from the very wealthy to the homeless.

But yet, I don't "know poor people's stories." Well, I guess I should discount all the things I've seen and had poor people tell me then.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Come to Central Alabama, have a sit, and people watch for a while. Your eyes will be opened.

I have stated before that I am opposed to corporate welfare as well. Both are bad and should be reformed/eliminated.