"Bush lied, people died" "Obama killed, we were thrilled"

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: Grambler

I understand your sentiment and I can pretty much agree with the general consensus...but it doesn't apply to me. That's the reason I didn't like nor support a second Obama term. I believe that the wars we have been waging since 2001/2002 are a direct result of the military industrial complex complicit with the banking industries, and our intelligence agencies meddling in the area since the late 1940's.

Oh there are great people on all sides that are consistent with this.

Even in the powerful people I mentioned.

Rob Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Tulsi Gabbard, Dennis Kucinich, and many others.

But clearly these voices were in the minority.

a reply to: theantediluvian

When the facts & arguments in a thread blow you away, why do you always cut and run... but then keep pushing on as if it never happened?

So after all of the bluster by some on this thread, not even one comment about the prime minister of Qatar saying the entire US stance on syria is a lie?

Again, had it been Bush or Trump thats started this, they would be fuming.

I agree with your premise. And yes, a lot of faux leftists that protested Bush then happily applauded Obama's operations in Libya and Syria. However, not ALL of us did. I was one on the left that protested the wars under Obama, and regime change success in Libya and attempt in Syria.

There two parties are one: the one party of war and the rich.

a reply to: Grambler

Who cares what the prime minnie of Qatar says?

a reply to: Grambler

Just to be clear, if fascism becomes powerful, one should oppose it totally, and wipe it utterly from the world. That is not the same thing as suggesting a genocide. For example, I am not suggesting we destroy the children of fascists, because they know yet nothing of the world, have yet to have the opportunity to learn decency and common respect between people. I am not suggesting killing everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders either. I am suggesting opposition to fascism, in every form, from every quarter. I suggest opposing it when it is inflicted on citizens by governments (regardless of which party happens to be in power in a given nation), whether in the shadows or the open, and I suggest opposing it when it is inflicted on a nation by a group of individuals outside government.

Thats as clear as it can get. You will note that at no time have I suggested actual genocide, and I never would. You know why? Because I simply have far too much class to believe that such a thing is the correct approach.

a reply to: Grambler

Theres little to say on the matter of the PM of Qatar saying the entire US stance on Syria is a lie, because the data is old, because some of us have been sure that the US stance on foreign affairs has been broken for some considerable time. In short, theres little reaction, because there is nothing new in the data he provides, and he does not go far enough to illuminate for the idiots at the back, why that stance is incorrect.

And by the way, Trump is ramping up military and intelligence service action at the moment, the precise opposite of what is either needed, nor necessary, nor justifiable from a moral or ethical point of view. In short, the only right move for the US, would be to withdraw all troops, all funding for rebel groups, all military interventions of any kind by the US, in the Middle East or North Africa, entirely cease, on all quarters and fronts, in every way, shape and form. No more supplying the terrorists so that trillions can be spent fighting them, no more arming the terrorists, so that they become a threat, no more training the terrorist recruiters, so that they always have a method to pull in members, and no more bombing innocent non-combatants, so that the terror recruiters always have weak, scared, scarred people to recruit.

Who started it, as it was when Obama was in office and still fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, is absolutely irrelevant in the following regard:

Doing the right thing, is still right, even when the guy before you was wrong.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Yes but you define Trump supporters as fascists, correct?

Meaning that if they gain enough political power, they need to be killed.

I am not trying to misrepresent you, so I am just asking for clarification.

a reply to: Grambler

I think its more accurate to say that there are fascists who voted for Trump. So the requirement for a just prosecution of war against the fascist may indeed result in the deaths of some Trump supporters, but not all by any stretch of the imagination, because not everyone who voted for the man did so because they were fascists.

Many did, but not all.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Ok so we just have to kill "many" fascist that are trump supporters.

Can you describe in your mind how we determine which trump supporters are fascists?

a reply to: TrueBrit

Define "fascist".

Now explain how that isnt the bulk of these Identity Politick / SJW / BLM / Antifa types (that is its about pointless even mentioning their ilk for one side but not the other)

Or describe how Marxists arent Communists and how they're better for humanity than Fascists.

Because this ZOMG ITS TEH FASCISTS mania from followers of Marx is quite bizarre and played out at this point.

a reply to: Grambler

Well, its pretty simple.

You ask 'em.

Fascists tend to be pretty thick, so when you ask them what they think of a certain race, sexual preference, or what have you, they will express their tendencies without filter, or with very little filter at any rate.

I mean heck, Richard Spencer, for example, is a fascist. There is no question to ask him, you only have to put him on a slightly raised area with a mic somewhere on it, and he will tell you exactly what he, and the only people who can stand to be in the same room as him believe.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Grambler

Well, its pretty simple.

You ask 'em.

Fascists tend to be pretty thick, so when you ask them what they think of a certain race, sexual preference, or what have you, they will express their tendencies without filter, or with very little filter at any rate.

I mean heck, Richard Spencer, for example, is a fascist. There is no question to ask him, you only have to put him on a slightly raised area with a mic somewhere on it, and he will tell you exactly what he, and the only people who can stand to be in the same room as him believe.

No you are being vague.

You are suggesting killing people.

Given that, the least you could do is provide a pretty damn specific criteria for who needs to die.

Would someone who defends white supremacist or be an apologist for them need to be killed?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
And by the way, Trump is ramping up military and intelligence service action at the moment,

Link please.

And now that Bush/Cheney+Obama/Hillary blew up ME and paid Al Qaeda+ISIS into becoming a regional hegemonic empire, should the US completely abandon the entire place leaving Al ISIS to become a superpower of beheadings and destability?

Veterans Hurt by Chemical Weapons in Iraq Get Apology - NY Times

Mr. Carson was appointed last fall by Chuck Hagel, then the defense secretary, to lead a Pentagon working group to identify service members who had been exposed to chemical weapons and to offer them medical screening and other support. The effort was in response to an investigation in The New York Times that revealed that the military had secretly recovered thousands of old and often discarded chemical munitions in Iraq.

Army seeks to ID troops exposed to Chemical Weapons in Iraq - Military.com

More Than 600 US Troops Say Were Exposed to Chemical Weapons in Iraq - The Guardian

Defence secretary Chuck Hagel ordered an internal review of military records after the Times reported in October that US troops encountered degraded chemical weapons from the 1980s that had been hidden or used in makeshift bombs.

The initial newspaper report disclosed that 17 service members had been injured by sarin or sulphur mustard agent, and several more came forward after the story appeared, the Times said Thursday.

VA program for exposed servicemembers to register

They did have WMD. C'mon guys, we know he used them on the Kurds. In addition, we know he used them during the war with Iran. What we #ed up was that they weren't in an active state of production. A lot of chemical weapons have a shelf life, but when they go past their shelf life they merely lose effectiveness, they don't become safe, as evidenced by the soldiers who received burns and have ongoing medical issues to this day because of exposure.

Don't forget, Bush didn't just order the war. They had to present their evidence to Congress. Congress thought the intel was convincing. They saw the same classified reports Bush and his staff did. Then later they pretended they were misled. That's false, they were just wrong. Our intelligence was wrong. They didn't have an active WMD program. But we do know he had this stuff, and some of our soldiers were indeed exposed to chemical agents handling chemical-laden artillery shells. They were also used by insurgents to construct IEDs. The victims and the VA don't have the luxury of pretending there was no WMD.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Grambler

No, and here is why.

I never once heard an Obama supporter, a genuine Obama supporter from back in the day, when he had a movement, rather than an administration, suggest genocide or ethnic cleansing.

I heard that nonsense from the far right every day for two years though, right before your golden idiot got elected.

You cant just say that stupid BS and not at least provide a link to wtf you are talking about. I dont remember hearing any of that BS from anyone except idiots like you saying it was said.

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Grambler

No, and here is why.

I never once heard an Obama supporter, a genuine Obama supporter from back in the day, when he had a movement, rather than an administration, suggest genocide or ethnic cleansing.

I heard that nonsense from the far right every day for two years though, right before your golden idiot got elected.

You cant just say that stupid BS and not at least provide a link to wtf you are talking about. I dont remember hearing any of that BS from anyone except idiots like you saying it was said.

Careful. you dont want to get lumped in with the many trump supporters he thinks need to be killed

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: TrueBrit
And by the way, Trump is ramping up military and intelligence service action at the moment,

Link please.

And now that Bush/Cheney+Obama/Hillary blew up ME and paid Al Qaeda+ISIS into becoming a regional hegemonic empire, should the US completely abandon the entire place leaving Al ISIS to become a superpower of beheadings and destability?

erm , it was a pretty big part of his election campaign, did you forget?
try googling 'trump north korea' and 'trump iran' you obviously managed to miss his many threats against those countries also.

a reply to: notsure1

I can do what the hell I damned well please, thank you very much. And people worry about lefties being authoritarian!

Richard Spencer is a Trump supporter. He was overjoyed by the election of Trump, because he believes that a good majority of the things listed as part of the effort to Make America Great Again (including the prevention of immigration, legal or otherwise from certain locations, the harassment of immigrants in the US currently, the erection of the wall, for example) are examples of Trump beginning to erect an ethno-state, by "soft" ethnic cleansing. He said as much at the time, and I will not be quoting that dirty, traitorous, rotten piece of filth. His comments are enshrined in other posts on this website, and many places all over the web, so if you somehow managed to allow your rose coloured spectacles to filter out that part of history, you can go and look them up for yourself.

He is not alone in his summation of Trumps plans either.

The alt-right is literally rife with people either eagerly awaiting, or openly demanding that ethnic cleansing of varying degrees of overtness and violence, be enacted post haste. The most socially acceptable ones just want support for immigrant populations to end, meaning basically that anyone with an accent should be mistrusted until they prove their citizenship. The least noble and decent simply want everyone who is not "white" to be either terminated or deported to any other location, regardless of the risk to the individual of persecution, torture, being murdered, or simply starving to death. These are the people who were the most ardent supporters of Trump, the most eager to see him usher in his effort to MAGA, the same people who think that MAGA is tantamount to scouring every dark skinned person with an accent, off the face of the United States, and oppressing anyone who falls outside their idea of an ethnic norm, with the support of the government.

Essentially, those who most vocally support Mr Trump, are those who have the notion that his policies will bring about the end of the multicultural melting pot that America has always been, ever since it first declared itself a country and had itself a flag made, but more particularly, will unbalance the nation to the point where white is right, and everything, and everyone else, is boned sideways with a pitchfork.

Now, you can protest if you want, and say that no one has ever said that, and yet yes, people have said it. You just have not been listening, or paying the slightest attention to what is going on around you, which is the only way you could possibly have missed these things. Those guys in Charlottesville, waving Swastikas and shooting into the crowd... Do you think those guys were all about voting Bernie Sanders? You know which side their bread is buttered, and you know what drew them to Trump as well. And you can claim that outliers have said and done all sorts of crazy things, not indicative of the beliefs, either private or public, of the majority. But you cannot tell me in honesty that these things have not been said, or that it was not avid, almost rabid Trump supporters who said them.

a reply to: TrueBrit

That's a lot of wind without anything but your words to back it up. I guess living in the UK has made you an expert on US politics huh...