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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Vasa Croe
Looks like Papadopoulos has been an informant since July 27th. That could be a problem for Trump.
originally posted by: Vasa Croe
originally posted by: Painterz
... I suspect a lot of you are going to be disappointed.
Remember the Starr investigation went over everything Clinton related with a fine toothed comb and found nothing to even bring charges on, let alone secure a conviction?
The benghazi thing was thoroughly investigated. Congressional Republicans spent $7m on 33 separate hearings over four years. They found zero evidence of criminal wrong doing.
The email thing, no charges.
Does this mean the Clintons are innocent? No. Does it mean no evidence has been found despite multiple high level investigations, yes.
I'd be very surprised if this current investigation goes in their direction. This is all Trump's swamp I'm afraid folks.
Let me know when you can connect Trump back to 2006 political lobbying and Ukraine.
This is all going towards the Dems and mostly the Podesta group...after all the Podesta group did recently have to revise it's filings as well....gee...wonder why that suddenly came up....has to be coincidence right?
www.politico.com...
Whoops!
20. As part of the scheme, in February 2012, MANAFORT and GATES solicited two
Washington, D.C., ?rms (Company A and Company B) to lobby in the United States on behalf of
Yanukovych, the Party of Regions, and the Government of Ukraine. For instance, GATES wrote
to Company A that it would be ?representing the Government of Ukraine in [Washington,]
21. MANAFORT repeatedly communicated in person and in writing with Yanukovych, and GATES passed on directions to Company A and Company B. For instance, MANAFORT wrote
Yanukovych a memorandum dated April 8, 2012, in which he provided Yanukovych an update on
the lobbying firms? activities ?since the inception of the project a few weeks ago. It is my intention
to provide you with a weekly update moving forward.? Toward the end of that first year, in
November 2012, GATES wrote to Company A and Company that the ?rms needed to prepare
an assessment of their past and prospective lobbying efforts so the ?President? could be briefed by
?Paul? ?on what Ukraine has done well and what it can do better as we move into 2013
22. At the direction of MANAFORT and GATES, Company A and Company engaged in
extensive lobbying. Among other things, they lobbied multiple Members of Congress and their
staffs about Ukraine sanctions, the validity of Ukraine elections, and the propriety of
Yanukovych?s imprisoning his presidential rival, Yulia Tymoshenko (who had served as Ukraine
President prior to Yanukovych).
The European Centre for a Modern Ukraine was formed in 2012 by three senior members of the Party of Regions, a pro-Russia party led by President Viktor Yanukovych and advised by Manafort.
At the time, Ukraine's government faced rebuke by the Obama administration and Congress for jailing political opponents.
The center, based in Brussels, said its mission was to strengthen Ukraine's relations with the West.
The Podesta Group said in the 2012 lobbying disclosures that the center "provides information about Ukraine to governments, business and other interested parties." Podesta lobbyists were working on "issues pertaining to relations between Ukraine and the United States."
One of Washington's most powerful lobbying firms did not disclose the wide extent of its lucrative political work for a Ukrainian group tied to both onetime Trump adviser Paul Manafort and to pro-Russian politicians, new records show.
The firm, the Podesta Group, said nothing in a 2012 lobbying report to Congress about at least 32 meetings, emails and other communications it had with the State Department, at a time when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was scrutinizing Ukraine's upcoming election, records show.
originally posted by: luthier
originally posted by: Vasa Croe
originally posted by: Painterz
... I suspect a lot of you are going to be disappointed.
Remember the Starr investigation went over everything Clinton related with a fine toothed comb and found nothing to even bring charges on, let alone secure a conviction?
The benghazi thing was thoroughly investigated. Congressional Republicans spent $7m on 33 separate hearings over four years. They found zero evidence of criminal wrong doing.
The email thing, no charges.
Does this mean the Clintons are innocent? No. Does it mean no evidence has been found despite multiple high level investigations, yes.
I'd be very surprised if this current investigation goes in their direction. This is all Trump's swamp I'm afraid folks.
Let me know when you can connect Trump back to 2006 political lobbying and Ukraine.
This is all going towards the Dems and mostly the Podesta group...after all the Podesta group did recently have to revise it's filings as well....gee...wonder why that suddenly came up....has to be coincidence right?
www.politico.com...
Whoops!
Lol, you have no idea where this is going. Nobody but the special council does.
originally posted by: Grambler
20. As part of the scheme, in February 2012, MANAFORT and GATES solicited two
Washington, D.C., ?rms (Company A and Company B) to lobby in the United States on behalf of
Yanukovych, the Party of Regions, and the Government of Ukraine. For instance, GATES wrote
to Company A that it would be ?representing the Government of Ukraine in [Washington,]
21. MANAFORT repeatedly communicated in person and in writing with Yanukovych, and GATES passed on directions to Company A and Company B. For instance, MANAFORT wrote
Yanukovych a memorandum dated April 8, 2012, in which he provided Yanukovych an update on
the lobbying firms? activities ?since the inception of the project a few weeks ago. It is my intention
to provide you with a weekly update moving forward.? Toward the end of that first year, in
November 2012, GATES wrote to Company A and Company that the ?rms needed to prepare
an assessment of their past and prospective lobbying efforts so the ?President? could be briefed by
?Paul? ?on what Ukraine has done well and what it can do better as we move into 2013
22. At the direction of MANAFORT and GATES, Company A and Company engaged in
extensive lobbying. Among other things, they lobbied multiple Members of Congress and their
staffs about Ukraine sanctions, the validity of Ukraine elections, and the propriety of
Yanukovych?s imprisoning his presidential rival, Yulia Tymoshenko (who had served as Ukraine
President prior to Yanukovych).
www.justice.gov...
Sure there arc charges of money laundering and what have, and dont get me wrong, these are crimes that they should be punished for.
But here is the meat about collusion.
Manfort and Gates were working on behalf of the pro russian Ukranians, and was seeking to get influence for them in the US.
So they approach to firms, the indictment calls the Company A and Company B.
Who were these companies. Well we know for a fact that Manafort approached and worked with the Podesta group in 2012.
The European Centre for a Modern Ukraine was formed in 2012 by three senior members of the Party of Regions, a pro-Russia party led by President Viktor Yanukovych and advised by Manafort.
At the time, Ukraine's government faced rebuke by the Obama administration and Congress for jailing political opponents.
The center, based in Brussels, said its mission was to strengthen Ukraine's relations with the West.
The Podesta Group said in the 2012 lobbying disclosures that the center "provides information about Ukraine to governments, business and other interested parties." Podesta lobbyists were working on "issues pertaining to relations between Ukraine and the United States."
And we know that the Podesta group failed to disclose its work for a foreign agents.
One of Washington's most powerful lobbying firms did not disclose the wide extent of its lucrative political work for a Ukrainian group tied to both onetime Trump adviser Paul Manafort and to pro-Russian politicians, new records show.
The firm, the Podesta Group, said nothing in a 2012 lobbying report to Congress about at least 32 meetings, emails and other communications it had with the State Department, at a time when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was scrutinizing Ukraine's upcoming election, records show.
www.cnn.com...
Ig group A or B are the Poidesta group, it looks like there may well be charges against them soon. We know that Group A and B lobbied for the pro russian Ukranians just like Manafort. We know the Podestas did not properly disclose there dealings.
So if they are group A or B, which I think is very likely, this indictment shows that they knowingly lobbied for pro russsian ukranians, just like Manafort, and they din not disclose it.
Even if charges aren't filed, this shows that at the very least the Podesta group (if they are one of these geroups) was working with manafort to push for pro russian positions.
This is the best evidence of actual russian collusion or malfeasance that we have.
Nothing in the indictment seems to connect Trump in any way. This isnt to say its not coming, but at this point its not there.
But we do have pretty good evidence that company A and B broke the law and worked for russia, and we have good evidence that one of those may be the Podesta group.