Yemen’s Houthi Rebels Claim They Have Shot Down A Saudi Eurofighter Typhoon Over Yemen

The Saudi Airforce may have lost another Typhoon. Houthi rebels are claiming that they shot down a Typhoon. The initial reports are as of yet unconfirmed. My understanding is that they at best posses MANPADS and lack any sort of sophisticated SAM systems. So Its possible that it was a lucky shot or perhaps poor tactics (The type is fairly new for them) in the CAS Role. This highlughts IMHO the sheer lunacy of the USAF's plan to use F-35's in the CAS role.

theaviationist.com...

I'm starting to wonder about the f-35's.....maybe just keep em high, huh

rebels got lucky....got close

a reply to: FredT
One of the sources says that they have targeted the plane with a surface-to-air missile, not that they have shot it down, the same way Syrians regularly target Israeli aircraft I guess.

a reply to: FredT

Why would this have anything to do with the f-35?

Look into the performance of the f-35 at Atlantic Trident 17.

a reply to: FredT

A claim is not proof of anything. They once claimed they shot down an F-15, and showed a picture of an external fuel tank that was dropped as proof. Until they show wreckage it's nothing but a claim.

MANPADS are less than effective against fast movers. They work to a degree, but they're not as effective as they once were.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: FredT

Why would this have anything to do with the f-35?

Look into the performance of the f-35 at Atlantic Trident 17.

He was talking about the F-35's survivability in a CAS role. If you think he's wrong, debate him on its CAS ability. Its performance at Atlantic Trident 17 was strictly in air-to-air scenarios wasn't it?

a reply to: face23785

How well does the B-52 do in CAS missions? Or the B-1? You're both under the impression that CAS requires them to be low and dive down on their targets, like it used to. That changed after Desert Storm with the proliferation of PGMs in our weapon inventory.

There are occasional times when you want to perform a strafing run and will have to get low, but that won't change the fact that MANPADS don't work well against fast movers. They're still somewhat effective against older platforms, but not against others.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I wasn't taking either side of the issue in that post, I just pointed out that his retort that "what about it's Atlantic Trident performance" was kind of irrelevant. I thought the big takeaway from that was the air-to-air performance of the F-35. I don't remember reading anything about CAS simulations there, although I admit I could've missed it.

a reply to: face23785

It's an A2/AD exercise.

Those threat range from advanced air defenses such as the Russian-made S-400 and S-300V4 to the Chinese HQ-9 surface-to-air missile defense systems. “The nature of A2AD missions provide a highly-contested environment where adversaries have the upper-hand, creating barriers that limit U.S. and allied efforts,” an Air Force statement reads.

nationalinterest.org...

a reply to: Zaphod58

So it focused on going up against a relatively advanced adversary that had high-end air-to-air and ground-to-air defenses. That was kinda my point. The F-35's performance in those areas doesn't really prove it's a good CAS plane. I'm not saying it is or isn't, I'm just saying that's not a good thing to bring up if you're arguing that it is a good CAS platform. That's all I was saying.

a reply to: face23785

And what do you think it's going to be going up against in the CAS role? We're either going to be fighting an asymmetrical war, like we are now, which means few to no defenses after an initial fight against SAMs, or a near peer/peer war, in which case we're talking high end SAMs.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: face23785

And what do you think it's going to be going up against in the CAS role? We're either going to be fighting an asymmetrical war, like we are now, which means few to no defenses after an initial fight against SAMs, or a near peer/peer war, in which case we're talking high end SAMs.

Right. So they found out how it does in case B, but not in case A. And it's not like performance against SAMs is a CAS-specific thing. For case A, can it, traveling at high enough speeds where it's not vulnerable to ground fire, accurately pick out and take down ground targets in a chaotic battlefield without hitting friendlies? How's its loiter time? Is the quantity of munitions it can carry and the number of aircraft that are likely to be dispatched useful for the role? Things like that are what I'm talking about. None of that was tested at Atlantic Trident, from what I've read. Again, that is my only point.

a reply to: face23785

And if it can handle B, what makes you think it can't A, is what I'm saying. If it can do CAS against high end systems, it will be even better against targets with few to no defenses. It will be carrying its externals in that case, which means more weapons.

As for all the others, it's not any different from the F-16 and F-18 beyond not having external fuel tanks yet. The same things that apply to them flying that mission will apply to it as far as those factors go. Just as with them it's going to depend on range to target area, if they're only internal or a combination of internal and external, and all kinds of factors, just as with other CAS platforms.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah and all of that was one reason why I really wasn't trying to get into whether it will be a good CAS platform or not. Again, my only point was that Atlantic Trident didn't really show whether it was or not. I think we've pretty much run this one into the ground, boss.

a reply to: face23785

If you think that an A2/AD exercise doesn't show that it can perform one of the missions that it was designed for, then yeah, we have.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: FredT

Why would this have anything to do with the f-35?

The USAF as justification to kill off the A-10 have said that the F-35 would be used in the CAS role. Thats why I brought it up

a reply to: FredT

As are the F-15, F-18, F-16, B-52, etc. Why would the F-35 be any different? CAS, most of the time, is simply a matter of punching in coordinates, flying over, and hitting the pickle button.