White House says All The Women Who Say Trump Sexually Harassed Them Are Liars

a reply to: spiritualzombie

If you're going to bring up Weinstein then you have to bring up Bill Clinton and Hillary who dismissed the allegations of rape.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Listen... You’re missing something over and over. I’m not talking about locking up. Get the “locking up” thing out of your head. You and I agree on legalities. We both agree judges and juries decide that.

I’m talking about assessments... much like we do with Harvey Weinstein’s or Hillary Clinton’s or Bill Clinton’s.

Look at what trump has said. Look at what the women have said. Is Trump lying or are all 16 women lying? What’s your gut say?

a reply to: spiritualzombie

you seem to be not able to perform some basic reasoning when you refer to Trump "admitting" to assaulting women. Are you aware of the context he was referring to? Are you aware that in order for Trump to "just kiss" someone that they would have to put themselves willingly in his proximity? Do you think he was chasing them around the room? Just HOW do you think he was able to engage in physical contact with them? Context matters. The married woman he was referring to went shopping with him for pity sake. That directly implies voluntary association. Please explain to me how the context contained in that story could possibly imply sexual assault when the story hes telling makes it clear that they were hanging out, going shopping together and spending intimate time together by HER OWN CHOICE.

Additionally, the grab em comment was clearly, obviously within the context of those who wanted to be around Trump because of who he is. Thats called "voluntary association". Do you know what groupies are? They also choose to put themselves into sexual situations with "stars" knowing full well whats coming or what is likely to occur.

"when youre a star they let you do it"

Yes, when a woman pursues being in the company of a "star" they know full well what they are doing. Do you disagree? Please tell me you honestly think a woman who chooses to spend time ALONE with a powerful media personality has ZERO clue that something romantic might happen. I want to know that you are that naive and ignorant of how the world works.

I am getting fed up with women accusing people of sexual abuse via medias.

We can never know what wnt down. Was it real, is it just a made up accusation?

The only thing it furthers the mistrust in potential victims and destroys the career of the possibly innocent alleged abusers.

These cases should be reported to police. Immediately. Not 10 years after. Then it‘s the Police and the Justice Sytem to deal with the issue and to find out if true or not.

And false accusers should be punished as well as sexual abusers.

I am pretty sure that all high profile men accused of sexual harassment would claim that their victims are liars.

Its difficult because I do not doubt that some may be liars, indeed some have been proven to be liars.

However there are a number of incidents that for me, make the idea of Trump having sexually harassed or abused women to be true. His comments about groping women genitals, the accusations from his ex-wife, his comments about women in the past and the nature of some of the accusations for me all indicates to Trump having sexually harassed or abused women.

If Weinstein or Cosby came out and said that their accusers were basically all liars everyone would laugh at them, it would probably actually make them look desperate and even more guilty in many peoples eyes. Yet when people are blinded by political allegiance this common sense goes out the window.

Trump supporters will never admit to his flaws and this only compounds the problem, so long as his base of support don't question him or criticise him he will continue to feel like he can get away with whatever he wants. I fear that may even include sexual harassment.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

ill put to you the same analysis and questions i put to spiritualzombie. Can you find fault with my reasoning and if so would you be willing to demonstrate it?

a reply to: tribal

I think your exact logic could be applied to Winestien.

Actually its a really twisted logic you present and its totally wrong.

There is no such thing as "voluntary association".

Are you aware of the context he was referring to? Are you aware that in order for Trump to "just kiss" someone that they would have to put themselves willingly in his proximity?

So basically what you're saying is that anytime a women is in range of of a kiss they are fair game?

What about when they get in range of a penis?

Plenty of women put themselves into "willing proximity" but that does not mean they want you to kiss them.

Actually you know what?

Phases like "willing proximity" and "Voluntary association" sound like the kind of defences that a inept defence lawyer would use to defend a rapist.

The married woman he was referring to went shopping with him for pity sake. That directly implies voluntary association. Please explain to me how the context contained in that story could possibly imply sexual assault when the story hes telling makes it clear that they were hanging out, going shopping together and spending intimate time together by HER OWN CHOICE.

Again just stupid twisted logic, you are basically saying if a women choses to hangout with you its impossible to sexually assault her.

I have a few really good friends who are girls, I regularly go over to their homes, we chill out and watch a movie or something, pretty sure if I started groping their gentiles they would call it sexual assault and not content by voluntary association and their partners probably wouldn't take kindly to it either.

Honestly your entire post absent of any kind of reasoning, you are literally trying to make excuses for sexual assault.

Take your entire argument and place it in the context of any other sexual predator and it falls to bits.

a reply to: svetlana84

These cases should be reported to police. Immediately. Not 10 years after. Then it‘s the Police and the Justice Sytem to deal with the issue and to find out if true or not.

Until recent years, I'd totally agree with this point. Sadly, we've had half a dozen famous TV/radio stars convicted of molesting/raping scores of children since the late 60s (at least). Many of them tried to report the crimes and were fobbed off by incredulous police. The worst of them, Jimmy Saville, died of old age and never faced investigation despite decades of allegations.

Nowadays I can fully understand why people come out years later. Often it's because they had no voice at the time or were intimidated into silence by the potentially negative consequences against them. Another thing is how rape victims have been treated in courts since forever. A woman in court was typically treated like a temptress or a tease - at worst a whore.

With the Weinsteins, and possibly Trumps, of this world, women had very small prospects of seeing a prosecution and a massive chance of having their careers ruined. Also there always remains a degree of shame attached to victims which is magnified when their claims are dismissed.

As much as I agree with the point, it isn't as clear cut as reporting to the police.

And false accusers should be punished as well as sexual abusers.

Amen to that! It's a despicable thing to falsely accuse people of violent and/or sexual crimes.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kettu
Dude, the man admitted to sexually harassing and assaulting women.

He also bragged about walking into the changing rooms of under age girls at a beauty pageant.

No he didn't and you can't prove it! Liar!

Donald Trump used to “stroll right in” to the dressing room of beauty pageants while the contestants - some of whom were teenagers - were naked or half-dressed,

Link

But of course it never happened right?

Because lord Donald would never do that?

Mariah Billado, Miss Teen Vermont 1997 told BuzzFeed, "I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, 'Oh my god, there's a man in here.'" Three other teenage contestants from the same year confirmed the story. The former pageant contestants discussed their memories of the incident after former Miss Arizona Tasha Dixon told Los Angeles' CBS affiliate that Trump entered the Miss USA dressing room in 2001 when she was a contestant.

"He just came strolling right in," Dixon said. "There was no second to put a robe on or any sort of clothing or anything. Some girls were topless. Others girls were naked. Our first introduction to him was when we were at the dress rehearsal and half-naked changing into our bikinis."

Link

nah not daddy trump....

On an appearance on The Howard Stern Show in 2005, published on Sunday by CNN, Trump described going backstage at the beauty pageants while the contestants were undressed. “Before a show, I’ll go backstage and everyone’s getting dressed, and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” he said. “You know, I’m inspecting because I want to make sure that everything is good.”

“You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody okay?’” he continued. “And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that.”

Link

ohhhh hummm.....

yeah looks like he was actually walking in on teenage girls getting dressed.

He also described his 17 year old daughter as a "piece of ass".

Trump is just another scummy rich guy who thinks he can treat women like bits of meat.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Where have I heard similar allegations? ...oh that's right Bill Cosby. "Where there's smoke there's fire." One or two alleging sexual harassment would be questionable, but sixteen? Trump has already shown himself to be a scumbag in public when it comes to women. The interviews and recordings can easily be found on YouTube and there's more than just these. Money and power tends to make people like him, Weinstein and Cosby think they're above the law.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

i see you have foregone the route of using reason to that of hyperbole. Not surprising.

Do you know what a groupie is? Do you know what a "star effer" is? Well, these are just two terms that most people not living in a cave have heard of and know what they mean.

You use yourself as an example and a basis of comparison which is absurd on its face. You are not a media mogul, or a billionaire, or a rockstar, so how, pray tell, do you think you can use yourself as an example of ANYTHING when what we are talking about here are very well connected power players who are highly sought after by those who wish to USE them for those resources they have to provide?

The truth is you cant, and yet you attempted to which is HILARIOUS.

The fact is people like Weinstein and Trump exist in the rarefied air of CELEBRITY. Let me say that again if today is a slow day for you. Trump, Weinstein, Ozzy Osbourne and many others in the entertainment industry are CELEBRITIES.

I'm going to go really slow for you so you have no reason to not get this.

Celebrities are part of a cult of personality that has been carefully curated over decades to induce the general public to view shows, buy merchandise and attend events. Guess what? It has worked perfectly.

I have ZERO respect or sympathy for those who WILLINGLY, of their own FREE WILL, with no gun to their head or other legitimate threats, go into a room with someone whom they KNOW is a freak, a pervert and a user of others.

The women who went to see Weinstein knew exactly what they were getting into. They had every opportunity to second guess their decision to willingly go into a room and be alone with a person who was well know in his behavior and methodology.

The fact is they wanted something from him. It really is that simple. They wanted something from him, and he wanted something from them and in many cases he got it.

How you can sit back in your comfortable chair and distort the reality to conform to your distorted SJW mindset and put the entire blame on one party of a two party engagement is truly baffling. We are talking about adults here, not children. We are talking about people who in many cases grew up in that industry and had prior knowledge of how that industry worked and decided to go into the spider den nonetheless.

Its called "buyers remorse". These MILLIONAIRES who traded sex for acting roles got exactly what they wanted, but now they feel bad and guilty about what they did to get what they have and want to use the current mindless PC culture to their advantage and paint themselves as victims. Well, they are victims arent they.....of their OWN BAD CHOICES.

No one wants to take personal responsibility anymore. Everyone is looking for a scape goat. I detest people who refuse to fully own the consequences of their bad decisions. It is everything that is wrong with the world.

As to Trump, he said it himself "when youre a start they let you do it". Thats right.....because the people who want something from a "star" knowingly put themselves in rooms alone with those stars knowing full well its not to sit down and have a cup of tea.

Nothing in such a quid pro quo arrangement qualifies as a crime however you try to spin it.

Nowadays its getting to the point where if two drunk people get together and have sex and one regrets it later they can in some cases claim they were raped and have such an insane claim validated by the same mindless PC cult zombies that cant parse the english language well enough to understand Trumps words and the context they belong to.

Context matters, free will and free association matters, yes it exists you can look it up, and not all the blind hatred in the world will change the common sense and REAL logic that makes the conclusion plain as day to anyone who actually cares about rationality.

a reply to: tribal

You don't need to slow it down for me I am not retarded.

What is retarded is your idea which essentially boils down to arguing that because a individual has celebrity status they are incapable of sexually abusing women. Its a sexist and misogynistic view as you are saying that these women knew they were going to be sexually harassed so its their own fault and in any case its ok for rich powerful men to sexually harass or abuse women.

I understand that some of you are really blind by politics that you are going to stick up for Lord Trump all day but I find your comments about Weinstein really disturbing.

He raped women.

I don't care what the circumstance is, there is never any excuse to commit a act of rape, nor is their ever any excuse for sexual assault against any individual. He used his power over these women's careers to bribe them for sex, its revolting and its revolting that you are defending him by blaming his victims.

You and I are never going to agree on this, you are not going to change my mind because in my mind sexual assault and rape can never be excusable. So long as you peddle this crap that a celebrity cannot sexually assault anyone because they are famous you might as well go crawl under a rock.

I also think you would do well to treat the subject of sexual assault with a bit more sensitivity, this is something that happens to people on a daily basis, I am sure many members on this site have been victims of sexual assault so when you try to describe those calling this out as SJW its pretty pathetic.

You lot though the term social justice warrior around as a insult, its not a insult I am proud to be a advocate of social justice and I am proud to call out those who defend sexual predators.

a reply to: tribal

How can you talk down to the guy when your entire premise is to lay blame on the victims?! You're using the 'she asked for it' defence used in many a courtroom over the years by counsel as well as offenders.

Weinstein's silence is a tacit admission of guilt. When you read and hear women saying they were raped, it's because they were raped (use of force). Cosby's targets were spiked with sleeping pills. They hadn't entered some non-verbal agreement; it was sexual assault and rape.

Have you got female friends? You've spent time with them, right? They're in relationships, but you've spent time alone with them: shopping, watching TV, glass of beer etc. If you chose to grope one of them, it'd be your fault. It wouldn't be their fault because they 'associated' with you.

You know what your argument reminds me of? Saudi Arabia! It's where a sexual assault victim is automatically to blame.

a reply to: Kandinsky

How can you talk down to the guy when your entire premise is to lay blame on the victims?! You're using the 'she asked for it' defence used in many a courtroom over the years by counsel as well as offenders.

exactly its pathetic!

Sad day when I am being talked down to by someone making excuses for a rapist by blaming the victims.

a reply to: Kandinsky

one question and i think we can clear up just exactly how you guys approach this issue:

if a drunk man and a drunk woman go to the guys house after the bar and they have sex and the next day the woman thinks about it and feels bad and decides that she might have told him to stop and he didnt and then reports it as rape to the police should he be charged?

simple question, simple answer. Please dont muddy the waters with qualifiers, if ands or buts....

yes or no.

a reply to: tribal

Did she say stop or not?

a reply to: Kandinsky

i guess you cant read.

i said "she decides that she MIGHT have told him to stop...".

the issue is both people are impaired beyond the point of being able to remember clearly the details of what happened other than that they had sex.

see, you reveal by your lack of comprehension that you have already made up your mind. You tilt the tables toward the woman even though she is an equal participant and decides AFTER the fact that she didnt like what she did and then invents a way for her to feel like a victim and you just eat it up.

you dont believe in personal responsibilty.

a reply to: dragonridr

So bottomline all 12 women that came forward dropped their law suits for sexual harassment and there allegations never made it throughthe discovery stage.

Very few of the women who came forward attempted a law suit. In fact, the one's who did are not the ones who went public. Most of the women who came forward couldn't sue, because the "Statute of Limitations" had come and gone.

Women came forward, not because they were looking for a payday by accusing Trump, but because they wanted to testify to his character with their first hand knowledge Their timing was critical because it was during the campaign season, at a time when Trump was exposed by the Access Hollywood tape and he was denying that he actually sexually harassed women, "Just locker room talk folks!"

originally posted by: tribal
a reply to: Kandinsky

one question and i think we can clear up just exactly how you guys approach this issue:

if a drunk man and a drunk woman go to the guys house after the bar and they have sex and the next day the woman thinks about it and feels bad and decides that she might have told him to stop and he didnt and then reports it as rape to the police should he be charged?

simple question, simple answer. Please dont muddy the waters with qualifiers, if ands or buts....

yes or no.

Your question is deflective, off topic and moot. Everyone knows that Trump doesn't drink.

a reply to: tribal

No mate, I see bait and switch a mile away.

You've written about 1000 words justifying rapes and blaming the victims. You've given male celebrities immunity from blame and freedom to molest at will. The comedy irony is you've basically argued there's no such thing as a sex crime and think we're stupid for pointing it out lol.

A rape or assault can't take place if two people aren't close enough to touch. Your genius argument is the woman is automatically to blame if she's near the guy. Can you understand how stupid an idea that is? It means that as soon as a guy touches a woman in a non-consensual sexual way, he's innocent. Are you a Muslim cleric by any chance?