Astroid from outside the solar system, or something else?

Is this a warning shot from the bugs from starship troopers? Probably not but it does bring up an interesting question. We've all heard the panspermia theory. If not it basically states that life on Earth was seeded from astroids loaded with microorganisms from other places in the universe. I would love for NASA to check this one out to see what is on it. Obviously we don't have the budget or the technology to do this but it would go a long way to help prove theories of how life came to exist on this planet.




www.engadget.com...

Researchers observe the first known interstellar
comet

To date, every comet humanity has seen inside the Solar System has come from the Solar System, whether it's the Kuiper Belt or the billions of comets believed to make up the Oort Cloud. Now, however, it looks like astronomers might have found a comet of interstellar origin. They've used Hawaii's Pan-STARRS 1 telescope to track C/2017 U1, an object with a very eccentric, hyperbolic orbit (that is, moving quickly enough to escape gravitational pull) that wasn't connected to the Sun. The trajectory suggests that it's a comet which escaped from a nearby star, rather than something knocked out a familiar path and drawn in by the Sun's gravity.
These are preliminary findings, and there's more work to be done before researchers can be completely sure. If they confirm the orbit, though, it'll expand our understanding of space: we'll have tangible evidence that star systems can "swap" comets if the circumstances are right. The concept wasn't far-fetched given that comets are fairly common, but it's good to have tangible proof.

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a reply to: Somekindofwizard

They've used Hawaii's Pan-STARRS 1 telescope to track C/2017 U1, an object with a very eccentric, hyperbolic orbit (that is, moving quickly enough to escape gravitational pull) that wasn't connected to the Sun. The trajectory suggests that it's a comet which escaped from a nearby star, rather than something knocked out a familiar path and drawn in by the Sun's gravity.

Except if its a first time comet, 'displaced' from the ORT cloud and falling towards the sun. How could they tell the difference?

a reply to: intrptr

Well that's a great question that I am assuming the science guys know the answer to.

a reply to: Somekindofwizard

S&F I love this stuff. Great post.

This is Fascinating. I agree with you in that we should land a probe on this thing or at least do a fly-by sample grab from the tail. This thing actually came from trillions of miles away! I wonder if they could run some calculations and pinpoint its origin? That would be cool!

Why do you think we don’t have the tech to land a probe or do a sample grab? Is it simply because we don’t have the timeframe?

... Dynamicist Bill Gray calculates that it would have a diameter of about 160 meters (525 feet) if it were a rock with a surface reflectivity of 10%. "It went past the Sun really fast," Gray notes, "and may not have had time to heat up enough to break apart."

According to Gray, Comet PanSTARRS appears to have entered the solar system from the direction of the constellation Lyra, within a couple of degrees of right ascension 18h 50m, declination +35° 13′. That's tantalizingly close to Vega — and eerily reminiscent of the plot of the movie Contact — but its exact path doesn't (yet) appear to link any particular star.

This object entered the solar system moving at 26 km (16 miles) per second. At that speed, in 10 million years it would traverse 8,200,000,000,000,000 km — more than 850 light-years.

Sky and Telescope, Oct. 25, 2017 - Astronomers Spot First-Known Interstellar Comet.

Cool find!

We seem to be finding smaller objects in space doing things we have never witnessed before!

Solar systems, swapping comets... kind of like particles swapping electron!

a reply to: intrptr

My guess is it might have something to do with speed. Other than that I have no idea how they could tell. I would love for them to get a sample of that thing if it is in fact interstellar though!

Further observations of this object are very much desired. Unless there are serious problems with much of the astrometry listed below, strongly hyperbolic orbits are the only viable solutions. Although it is probably not too sensible to compute meaningful original and future barycentric orbits, given the very short arc of observations, the orbit below has e ~ 1.2 for both values. If further observations confirm the unusual nature of this orbit, this object may be the first clear case of an interstellar comet.

Minor Planet Center

There are ways they can tell if this came from the region of the Oort cloud or beyond. More measurements are needed to be certain but eventually, they will have enough observations in order to make a solid determination.



(further observations would allow for a more precise orbit and if it doesn't have an identifiable aphelion, it came from outside our solar system)

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: Somekindofwizard

S&F I love this stuff. Great post.

This is Fascinating. I agree with you in that we should land a probe on this thing or at least do a fly-by sample grab from the tail. This thing actually came from trillions of miles away! I wonder if they could run some calculations and pinpoint its origin? That would be cool!

Why do you think we don’t have the tech to land a probe or do a sample grab? Is it simply because we don’t have the timeframe?

Technology we probably do have, I know we've done it before but under vastly differently circumstances. You're right it's the time frame we lack. Although I would love to see it happen.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: intrptr

My guess is it might have something to do with speed. Other than that I have no idea how they could tell. I would love for them to get a sample of that thing if it is in fact interstellar though!

They can tell the orbit is not a repeat orbit. That science is sure, they are tracking it. Doesn't prove its a new comet from outside our solar system, though.

Ot if that is proof of panspermia.

Samples would show whats in the deep freezer, though.

originally posted by: Somekindofwizard
Now, however, it looks like astronomers might have found a comet of interstellar origin.

Hah! I guessed it.

Well, you have to explain it as it is an object that flies on past our sun really close unaffected and then turns.
www.mnn.com...

a reply to: Alien Abduct

It is actually the speed and trajectory that gives it away.

Think of the solar system as a mostly flat plate with the sun at the middle. The path of comet came in from above the flat plate and emerging out from underneath making a hyperbola. Because of the "steepness" (how close the sides of the hyperbola are to each other) of the curve, they calculated the path it had/was taking. Other sun orbiting bodies make huge hula-hoop like loops. This was more like an open-ended curve, then they knew for sure it was not a solar system body.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: intrptr

My guess is it might have something to do with speed. Other than that I have no idea how they could tell. I would love for them to get a sample of that thing if it is in fact interstellar though!

Sounds logical, the observed direction it came from, plus the speed. What they are saying is that it wasn't captured, or may not be captured by the Sun, and that it may still be intact.

a reply to: intrptr

They can't tell the difference. All they know is virtually all comets that come into view are on a path that, strangely, just misses the sun and equally strangely, have just the right amount of angular momentum to their motions that they swing around the sun and then return exactly back to the point in the heavens from which they appeared. Comets have many secrets that never gets admitted to or told to the public.

As far as coming from another star, what would be the odds that such an incoming "comet" or "asteroid" has the exact angular momentum (meaning velocity and angle) to orbit the sun? The odds would be pretty much zero. If coming from another star it is unreasonable to think that its velocity (alone) would be within the typical realm of our comet velocities (supposedly) coming from the outer edges of our system.

Regardless of its velocity, a good bet is that this unknown object will also have the proper amount of angular momentum.
It will come in, orbit close to the sun, and retreat along the straight as a railroad track that it had on the approach.

It is typical for long-distance comets to be calculated to be approaching on one specific orbit, frequently hyperbolic, but then be found on closer approach to be on a different path. The original computations are then blamed on faulty early data. Because, obviously, comets cannot really change their given motions if they are assumed to be inert, natural bodies.--Maybe they are interstellar ships, natural bodies fashioned into huge ships moving at phenomenal velocities between stars but slow for obvious reasons as then enter a visited solar system.

Astronomy has many secrets that they can't tell you about as they are the keys to understanding the cosmos.

are not most Asteroids traveling only in the 10s of thousands of MPH range...

well, if the outsider is currently speeding at 16 miles-per-second... that translates to 129,600 MPH... Way faster than Ort or Kuiper belt rocks or ice that fall to the inner Solar System

that orphaned asteroid may have been in a distant Solar System's own OOrt Cloud and was pushed into deep space by the Super Nova explosion & has been 10 Million Years sailing through the MilkyWay...
but Sol itself seems to be a strong attractor considering the 'U' turn approximation in the projected 'Orbit' instead of just a slight 'dog-Leg' bend in the Alien Rocks flight path


interesting stuff
hey... i'm just quoting the math from this calculation page, see graph:
www.metric-conversions.org...

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: Alien Abduct

It is actually the speed and trajectory that gives it away.

Think of the solar system as a mostly flat plate with the sun at the middle. The path of comet came in from above the flat plate and emerging out from underneath making a hyperbola. Because of the "steepness" (how close the sides of the hyperbola are to each other) of the curve, they calculated the path it had/was taking. Other sun orbiting bodies make huge hula-hoop like loops. This was more like an open-ended curve, then they knew for sure it was not a solar system body.

Ah okay thanks for that, I was thinking the ort cloud was shaped more like a sphere for some reason.

The orbital eccentricty is currently calculated to be 1.189718, which is significantly hyperbolic. However, the observational arc is not very large at the moment, so lots more observations are required over a much greater timespan to be certain. Nevertheless, this is a very interesting discovery.

As for the comment further up that "the comet appears to pass close to the Sun unaffected, and then turns later"....that is an illusion caused by the projection of 3D space onto a 2D monitor. If the viewpoint was adjusted to exactly perpendicular to the plane of the comet's orbit, you would see that the trajectory is perfectly normal for an object moving under the influence of the Sun's gravitational field.

a reply to: Aliensun

As far as coming from another star, what would be the odds that such an incoming "comet" or "asteroid" has the exact angular momentum (meaning velocity and angle) to orbit the sun? The odds would be pretty much zero.

I agree. But that claim gets everyone's attention doesn't it...

When I was younger I remember reading somewhere that most comets are unknown as to origins, they sweep in and disappear , their periodic orbits being too long to identify a return.

Besides encountering the influence of the other objects gravity in the solar system as well.

]--Maybe they are interstellar ships, natural bodies fashioned into huge ships moving at phenomenal velocities between stars but slow for obvious reasons as then enter a visited solar system.

That was interesting. I suppose if I were a space agency monitoring the earth I would disguise myself from their (our) instrumentation as a random comet. A comet rather than an asteroid because we can't resolve the object inside the halo of gas and dust.

If it begins slowing down, let me know.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Somekindofwizard

They've used Hawaii's Pan-STARRS 1 telescope to track C/2017 U1, an object with a very eccentric, hyperbolic orbit (that is, moving quickly enough to escape gravitational pull) that wasn't connected to the Sun. The trajectory suggests that it's a comet which escaped from a nearby star, rather than something knocked out a familiar path and drawn in by the Sun's gravity.

Except if its a first time comet, 'displaced' from the ORT cloud and falling towards the sun. How could they tell the difference?

The speed and how hyperbolic the trajectory is, is the sign here. First-time visitors from Oort cloud are slower and, even when their trajectory is hyperbolic (i.e. leaving the Solar System forever) it's only slightly so.

This particular comet's trajectory is strongly hyperbolic.

originally posted by: wildespace

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Somekindofwizard

They've used Hawaii's Pan-STARRS 1 telescope to track C/2017 U1, an object with a very eccentric, hyperbolic orbit (that is, moving quickly enough to escape gravitational pull) that wasn't connected to the Sun. The trajectory suggests that it's a comet which escaped from a nearby star, rather than something knocked out a familiar path and drawn in by the Sun's gravity.

Except if its a first time comet, 'displaced' from the ORT cloud and falling towards the sun. How could they tell the difference?

The speed and how hyperbolic the trajectory is, is the sign here. First-time visitors from Oort cloud are slower and, even when their trajectory is hyperbolic (i.e. leaving the Solar System forever) it's only slightly so.

This particular comet's trajectory is strongly hyperbolic.

And if you look at the direction the object appeared to come from, it's within a few degrees of the solar apex, the velocity vector of our solar system relative to the local stars projected out onto the sky. That fits neatly with the notion that this particular object is from outside our solar system and its motion relative to our solar system is as much a function of our solar system's motion relative to the local standard of rest as it is anything else.