Bill Bennett uses openly gay author Oscar Wilde quote at homophobic Values Voter Summit

a reply to: 200Plus

Which claims were made in this thread that aren't in the bible?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ketsuko

Maybe you guys (Christians) should clamp down on that spiraling out-of-control divorce and adultery rates. At least those are specifically condemned in the bible whereas homosexuality being a sin needs to be inferred. Yet so much time is spent on the "evil gay" when Christians throughout the world are embracing two relationship situations that are more condemned than homosexuality.

Not sure where you're getting info that divorce rates are spiraling out of control. Average divorce rate is 30%. If you dig further you can calculate how many of those people were multiple divorcee's that would reduce the percent of the population that has been divorced. I don't know of anyone that would say less than 3 in 10 is spiraling out of control.

I won't comment on adultery rates as I don't have information on those.

a reply to: jjkenobi

According to the Bible, no one should be getting divorce. Also, homosexuality is only prevalent in something like 10% of the population, so if gay people require near constant rage from Christians than SURELY 30% of the population should be popping their blood vessels.

PS: The divorce rate is between 40 - 50%.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not to mention, Christ was pretty specific about caring for the poor, the sick, widows, orphans, and so forth.

Yet, many "Christians" seem to be utterly against anything that helps these groups.

Odd, ain't it?

a reply to: Gryphon66
True Christians do it on their own accord directly for the recipients. Using government as an avenue for it is disingenuous and inefficient.

originally posted by: SouthernForkway26
a reply to: Gryphon66
True Christians do it on their own accord directly for the recipients. Using government as an avenue for it is disingenuous and inefficient.

Nah, not so much. Far more actual help can be provided to those who are in need through regulated programs than through alleged charity.

Further, for those of us that don't believe in religion, we're also glad to do our ethical part in caring for the needy with ZERO need for dictations from imaginary friends.

a reply to: SouthernForkway26

Actually it's probably the reverse. Christian donations are inefficient. Do you honestly think that those giant mega churches where the pastors drive around in escalades and wear rolexs are really doing the same kind of charity work as a small church? Furthermore, of the typical charities and churches that ARE honest about their donations do you think they apply their donations equally or are able to help everyone?

Welfare may be a bureaucratic mess, but it serves anyone who needs it. Also, the workers can't skim any money from the welfare funds as they are on government salaries that adhere to a pay chart. It may not be perfect, but it's probably the most helpful system devised for the people in desperate need situations. It is very disheartening that a huge segment of the population values greed over assisting others who need it. Especially when a large segment of that population believes in a mythology that preaches selflessness over selfishness. Hearing the phrase "Taxation is theft" makes me angry as it shows a fundamental ignorance of not only Constitutional law but literally how any government in history works.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Sadly the greatest portion of the so-called "charitable giving" on the part of Christians goes to their churches ... to buy vacation homes, boats, and planes for their pastors.

Scale it up or down either way.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Both Bill Bennett and Wilde are catholic.

Is this your answer to my query: "Am I missing some subtle nuance here? "

If so, then I assume that you are telling me that I'm drawing too many conclusions from this simple use of a quote from a well known philosopher. I think that using an Oscar Wilde quote was an intentional action on Bill Bennett's part. While I haven't looked, I suspect that there are likely other quotes that would have sealed Mr. Bennett's apologism just as well or better.

It's also possible that Bennett selected a quote from this author sub-consciously. Perhaps he really believes in this crusade on homosexuality. And he unknowingly used this quote because in the back of his mind he knew that the persecution of Oscar Wilde is a perfect example of a Win for his side.

On the other hand, perhaps you are drawing parallels to the Catholic Church's proven history of hypocrisy on this issue. Condemning the homosexual behavior in the religion's adherents, while the all-male Clergy practiced the most vile form of this behavior, behind closed doors, by raping young boys.

Then again, perhaps this answer is another one of your inscrutable one sentence answers to stimulate in me deeper thought on the issue. Like a one hand clapping kind-of thing...

Or, maybe you're just being a smartass.


Thanks,
-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

He would HAVE to care about that before he quoted him.
They're NOT his primary focus,just part of an attack demographic against him.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not to mention, Christ was pretty specific about caring for the poor, the sick, widows, orphans, and so forth.

Yet, many "Christians" seem to be utterly against anything that helps these groups.

Odd, ain't it?

And that was one of the reasons that drove me to create this thread.

These high-and-mighty Conservative Christians are so very eager to very visibly demonstrate their holiness by publicly persecuting the "unholy", an activity that is demonstrably hurtful in reality; rather than by spending their time, energy, and money trying to help those who are in need.

Perhaps the very notion of reality is at the core of this conundrum. Those of us who exist in this reality can perceive the harm being done by these people.

However, those who are not necessarily in tune with this reality, and whom expect some greater heavenly reward if they can demonstrate their holiness now, dismiss this harm. Perhaps the logic here is that the poor and afflicted will get into Heaven anyway, simply by being poor and afflicted; and if they can rid society of the "evil homosexual influence" more people will be able to get into Heaven.

Such "logic" twists my brain into knots and gives me a headache.

-dex

a reply to: Gryphon66

Sadly the greatest portion of the so-called "charitable giving" on the part of Christians goes to their churches ... to buy vacation homes, boats, and planes for their pastors. Scale it up or down either way.

The Prosperity Gospel is a real thing. And it is particularly prosperous for those who preach this belief to their congregants.

My wife came home one day with an image of her pastor, in an expensive suit, standing in front of his brand new Escalade. It turns out her church had leased the vehicle for him as part of his "pay package." She was beaming with pride because her small church could afford such a nice vehicle for their pastor. I thought to myself about how Jesus and his Disciples walked everywhere they went. Although I believe Christ road a Donkey once to make a point... Perhaps the Gospels forgot to mention that Jesus and the crew's horse-driven chariots were in the shop.

I just walked away, shaking my head. There was nothing I could say that she could even comprehend about how wrong this appeared to me.

-dex

a reply to: ketsuko

Ask any parent who has a child who has fallen into drug use or fallen afoul of the law by way to criminal activity.

So, being gay is comparable to drug abuse and criminal behavior?

That's disturbing to me if that's what you believe.

-dex

a reply to: dfnj2015

Ah yes, the G3 theory: God, Guns and Gays.

That's a lot easier to understand for some people. Why learn the other 25 letters of the alphabet when one will do?


-dex

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Probably not. The Trump crew don't know what nuance is. Trump is on the record for remarking how he likes shallow responses to situations.

The shallower the better. And they get extra credit for using multiple superlatives, redundantly and often.


-dex

a reply to: 200Plus

I'm not a Christian, just to clarify.

So, I assume that from your comments that you are not an atheist, but some kind of deist. Given that you are not a Christian, are you able to understand the divine instruction manual?

Proselytizing Atheists always seem to have "outgrown" Christianity. They claim to have read the Bible, yet make assertions that are simply put - not in the book.

I, for one, am completely accepting of correction for any misstatement that I make concerning the Christian Canon. However, as far as attempting to get into the mind of Bronze-age, camel-mounted, goat-herders; I'll admit that my imagination is not that good. And I have a very good imagination. So, being in tune with any organized religion, and their tightly scripted interpretation of ancient documents is not possible for me.


-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

I understand. My mom was an early convert to that crap in the 70s and 80s.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: DexterRiley

He would HAVE to care about that before he quoted him.
They're NOT his primary focus,just part of an attack demographic against him.

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that there was less meaning to this specific use of Oscar Wilde's quote than what I think.

But using the quote is part of the bigger overall strategy of the Christian Conservatives' attack against people and behaviors they consider "unholy."

If that's what you're saying, that certainly adds a new dimension to understanding the behavior of this group.

Thanks,
-dex