Steven Greer - ‘Unacknowledged’ ,Untangled and Unbelievable!

a reply to: mirageman

That appears to be a very exhaustive hit piece on the “fringe” area of ufology except for the very early days. As with many current and former politicians the world over, in a large sense Greer and others can be excused as they fall within bounds of human nature, even the most despicable of both lots. It happens, we expect it, and contrary to common sense, we allow it to varying degrees as part of our human culture and society.

How myopic it is to trash that area of ufology when it is mostly already know by many and ignored by many not cared about by most. No one wants to be handing out Nobel Peace Prizes to any of these folks (even if in politics such mistakes have been made). It’s part of the human circus.

The prime question is what do these people have to do with the existence of UFO/AETIs? The answer, is nothing or very little directly. The mystery remains for most of the world’s population and little is being do to get fully acquainted with the whole cosmos-shattering reality that humans have not yet taken seriously. What we have here is a definite side-tracking of the main issue, every bit as strong as the over half a century of official denials that we know so well from our governments.

Don’t blame the snake-oil hawkers. As in any area with unknown limits, they hang out on the fringe. We see it in every field of human endeavor. None is worse than our governments. They deny, ignore, obfuscate and belittle civilians and mandate severe penalties on their own people that see an undeniable UFO or try, from a place of authority, to unmask that mystery (the most important of which have been former US Presidents). When has there ever been an intense, unbiased and public official scientific program by any country to answer the large question? There never has been because that confirmation would be too much of a blow to the entire psyche of the human race if delivered as a whole, raw truth. So the answer comes piece-meal, controlled, slowly with the aid of social engineer that is ever so slight that few recognize the clever ploys of what actually is a entirely natural advancement of human idealization in an ever-increasing modern world. Any day now they will announce the possibility of, possibly, intelligent signals from a “goldilocks” planet around a distant sun, a seemingly safe distance away.

Who’s at fault if decades ago a earthly government not only secretly acknowledged the UFO but spent trillions of dollars understanding the rudimentary elements of those fabulous ships and built there own versions, those objects we see as distinctly different UFOs, the triangles? Yes, it was the US and the world is a dangerous place. So secret military weapons are the name of the game in this current world, but how long should this game of having this technology which is akin to the development of the wheel going to be accessed only by the military when it could be enriching the entire earth’s populace in so many ways? When does the need for military secrets and spending end and the rights of the citizens the world over are held as paramount?

As a revelation of the underbelly of some of the misdeeds in ufology that has no official ethics and guidelines as in most disciplines, it can be called a masterful hatchet job, I suppose, but it is not a credit to the task at hand. At best, should be seen as a diversion, a side road on the journey of ufology and our learning that we are not alone. Even if every carefully chose derogatory word in thread work is correct in a general sense, it remains a mud hole on a side road of that journey we all are on, an area to be avoided as it takes away from the experience of the trip and the focus of our thinking ahead to the adventure ahead.

a reply to: 0bserver1

OK thanks for clarifying it. You are as valid a witness as anyone else in my mind. Although we both know that's not how things always work.

Seeing a UFO and being unable to explain it is one thing.

Telling us that it was an alien spacecraft, we have harnessed free energy from aliens and the US government is involved in a conspiracy to cover this all up is an entirely different matter.

Yes that could be the case of course.

But Greer uses deception, as just one example, by selectively quoting the Hottel memo to make his case. It's not a one off. But many people who are new to the UFO subject can easily get taken in by this. On the one hand I suppose we should be glad that he has piqued their interest. But one the other it's simple dishonesty (or plain stupidity).

And you are of course allowed to disagree and/or air your opinion. Thank you for doing so in such a respectful, considered manner.

a reply to: mirageman

damn i thought i loathed and hated greers bs and ragged on him. damn if this ain't some serious and a thorough thrashing.
double your stars my man.👽👽👽

a reply to: mirageman

I've watched the program and found it interesting and well done.

I hope that's ok with you.

You've put forth quite an effort here trying to debunk all of ufology and disregard a lot of information.

Cheers anyway.

The agenda behind the thrashing, and the agenda of the one being thrashed are miles apart. I will chose Greer's, because he's on the right side of this issue.

Thanks anyway.

a reply to: Unity_99

The agenda behind the thrashing, and the agenda of the one being thrashed are miles apart. I will chose Greer's, because he's on the right side of this issue.

so your saying you can lie and use deception or any other dishonest tactic, while they line their pockets, so long as their on the right side of a issue.

pitiful, pitiful, pitiful.

who's to say whats the right side of the issue. or can anybody get a pass so long as it's your view of the issue.




ETA: i for one believe that there maybe indeed life other than our in the universe, but i'm not gonna makeup unfounded bullsh@@ about it.
i'm i on the right side.

I usually think of Greer as "controlled disinformation", and I do think that some entities in the shadows control him for whatever purposes. I always get that aura from him, that he's a pawn and knows it and hints at it.

About MJ-12; of course it's called a "hoax". If there was even one shred of truth about it than there would be a hardline concentrated "debunking and derailing effort" against it, which there has been for years. They would never ever let a piece of information like that slip through without attacking it relentlessly.

So MJ-12 is up in the air still as far as I'm concerned. All of the stuff "showing it's a hoax" could have been fabricated, just as easily as the entire original docs could have been fabricated. There's no way to really know either way without being directly in the know on a personal level with the individuals involved.

I have a really nuanced view on this whole subject though:
E.T. is almost certainly real and visiting Earth, but all of the people who discuss E.T. in any depth are generally talking out of their # because they far too often claim specifics that they'd have no way of knowing either way. They also, I believe, use language improperly when discussing the topic, like 'inter-dimensional'. Those words are totally misused all the time and I usually end up just thinking to myself "Too bad no one knows anything about any of this"...

a reply to: mirageman

I think the real problem is that our governments essentially lie to the people for a living.

The only way to really find out anything is through personal experience, and considering this topic specifically (E.T.), experience can be really really #'d up and confusing, so even then it's incredibly difficult to make any solid determinations of much. It's hard to know what's real and what's not the closer you get to "it", whatever "it" is.

So although I understand people hating on the UFO cult for "lying", I think it needs to be said that the master of lies and deceit is the government itself.

I have also discovered that a lot of people are very quick to call someone else a liar without any evidence or logic backing it up. In my last two threads tons of people called me a liar but I actually know as a fact I wasn't lying about my experiences, so the credibility of "just calling someone a liar" is extremely low.

I could call the OP a big huge lie, but does that make it so? No.
Only reality determines what's truth and what's fiction. Not us.
It's up to us to have the wisdom to recognize the truth and lies, and from what I've seen, we are all struggling immensely with this task. Everyone thinks they know everything already and that's a huge detriment.

When people finally admit they don't know for sure I will be happy.

a reply to: mirageman

Two interesting examples about how I could utilize the fallacious tactics (employed upon me personally this last month), and I'm sure the readers will enjoy it.

I could say:

1)
I think you're probably lying about all of this. Greer is probably legit and you want to discredit him and ridicule him (that's why you focus on the demeaning pictures of Greer so much, to attack him personally and utilize personality as the underlying basis of the attack) - that is because your agenda is probably to cover up that he's legit.

2)
I think you're probably lying about all of this. Greer is probably a fraud but you are employing sneaky advertisement tactics. By attacking him you know you are actually promoting his new film, therefore making money. No one was talking about this that I noticed lately, so you are marketing it for him (by covering it up with a lot of attacks designed to look like you're discrediting him). No press is bad press, as they say.

The point of that exercise is to show that no matter what I believe, no matter what way we slice this thing, I could call you too a liar and then create a narrative around that premise. And of course I wanted to show everyone that 1 and 2 are employing flawed logic and fallacies purely to be contentious and controversial.

a reply to: Urantia1111

I watched Sirius maybe 10 or 12 days ago and thought it was pretty interesting. I don't really know what's true or false but I do find all of this very interesting.

I am as skeptical of the debunking as I am of the original claims. I have seen enough to know there are con artists on both sides of the equation and or that most people simply made up their mind and everything they think is geared to support that prior theory, which is a classic fallacy. Facts are only important inso much as they support their theory, and they are reluctant to entertain any theory other than their own preconception. They get personally attached to "their" theory and cannot accept anything contradicting it. All humans face this dilemma, some more than others.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I think there are several key points here for those who are either confronted with the unknown entities , and those who don't want to accept that there is something going on that exceeds human comprehension.

People who are confronted with these anomalies seem to have and open mind for it ,and want to learn everthing there is about this subject . Something like having a hobby that they can't let go .

People who are to busy to even take the time to understand, but read stories about it and taking on the assumption that what others tell could be true from the patterns and repeated stories.

People who definitely don't think there's even a universe out there ,let alone that there would be aliens . To them only God angels and demons exist in realm of mankind.

From those groups some will exploit and earn money and try to become some kind of demigod as if they are the ones any alien civilization would turn to if disclosure would happen.

There also the ones who try to connect with the phenomena within deep meditation to gain knoledge telepathically not knowing if what they learn can be fully understand or infact were true happenings?

And those who don't give a damn if they are around or not to busy with other things in live and worry about it when it's happening within that moment.

And those who are eagerly want to see a UFO but never did and are so frustrated that they kick agains every aspect that wears the the name UFO and Aliens. Or those who know to much and have the order to destroy every aspect or chance to diminish the knoledge of their existence.

So it's like Columbus discovering the amerikas and the resistance it got before discovering it .

But at the End he did discover the continent and the world accepted.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: mirageman

I've watched the program and found it interesting and well done.

I hope that's ok with you.

You've put forth quite an effort here trying to debunk all of ufology and disregard a lot of information.

Cheers anyway.

The production standards of the film are high. But so is the deception involved. So check the facts out for yourself and make your own mind up rather than just accept what is presented in the movie.

Great thread as always, I really miss threads like this on ATS.

Well researched and well written....

Good ol Greer though huh? Repackaging all that continuously recycled information into a a different format and presentation , and reselling it again!!!

He's nothing if not industrious I suppose

a reply to: muzzleflash

About MJ-12; of course it's called a "hoax". If there was even one shred of truth about it than there would be a hardline concentrated "debunking and derailing effort" against it, which there has been for years......So MJ-12 is up in the air still as far as I'm concerned.

An example of problems in the MJ12 documents? See : Link

The SOM1-01 Operations Manual is dated April 1954. (Page 1)

On page 11 it refers to "Area 51 S4", which is nomenclature that did not appear until the 1980s. It was generally known as Groom Lake facility, Watertown, The Ranch etc. Area 51 was not developed until April 1955 anyway. A year after the manual was allegedly produced. A mistake like that is a clue that the whole thing is a hoax.

I am as skeptical of the debunking as I am of the original claims. I have seen enough to know there are con artists on both sides of the equation and or that most people simply made up their mind and everything they think is geared to support that prior theory, which is a classic fallacy. Facts are only important in so much as they support their theory, and they are reluctant to entertain any theory other than their own preconception. They get personally attached to "their" theory and cannot accept anything contradicting it. All humans face this dilemma, some more than others.

Yes indeed there are con-artists on both sides of the equation. At the end of the day we all have to make our own minds up based on the evidence presented (or lack of it).

However Roswell is portrayed as a real alien saucer crash right at the start of this movie. Greer uses Richard Doty (a self professed deception artist), Bill Uhouse (a man who says the spaceship was taken to an Area 51 that wasn't built in 1947) and Glenn Dennis (a man proven to be lying over his story). Not a good start and it's easy to check these claims out.

Thanks for the informative post OP.

I watched the film and found it lacking. I was following him quite well for the first 45 minutes and then I felt he went off a cliff and never came back. I found the last half of it lacking and a jumbled mess.

a reply to: mirageman
I still maintain that Greer is a controlled opposition of sorts meant to discredit both the Fake Alien Invasion theory, as well as promote the standard New Age cultism. Two birds with one stone technique - haters will disbelieve in the invasion conspiracy, and supporters will believe in his Space Brothers religion. But at least he proved faeries are real to paying customers!

Hynek always seems very genuine to me in his interviews. But I think he was constantly manipulated (or at least pressured) by the CIA.

originally posted by: 0bserver1
So it's like Columbus discovering the amerikas and the resistance it got before discovering it .

But at the End he did discover the continent and the world accepted.

Columbus never set foot in North America man, might want to check your history!

Basically we are still at the point of debating if aliens and alien abductions are real or not.
Best evidence is far to many credible people know they are real but are not sure what is happening.
Travis Walton case is a major classic case of established credibility.There are many others.

As soon as I seen Richard Doty in this I knew it was just a production.


If Greer were serious, he wouldn’t have had Doty as a witness to anything legit. Doty is an admitted liar and disinformation agent

a reply to: Ridhya

I still maintain that Greer is a controlled opposition of sorts...

Yes it has crossed my mind. As I mentioned earlier perhaps a number of famous ufotainment personalities are paid off to pump out false and misleading information to confuse the UFO community? So the military can study the serious stuff without us ever being aware of what was really going on.

But don't worry Tom DeLonge will be telling us soon. Just wait a little bit longer

Certainly Greer is not a perfect individual, and whatever Greer is in the greater scheme of things, the overall evidence is clear to those who look--that a strange phenomenon is occurring that science cannot explain.

UFO’s or whatever are just laymen’s terms that mean little. In reality any beings from wherever are as much “aliens” as we are.

The universe is one, and there are worlds and worlds and worlds and worlds…