Trump signs order to eliminate ACA insurance rules, undermine marketplaces

Business is about profits. For Health Insurance companies, profits go up when they don't help people. Finding ways to not help people is the key to their success. That's a pretty perverse business model.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: UKTruth

What kind of silly reasoning is that?

The kind of reasoning people who are not blinded by hate engage in.
Who'd have thought, choice and buying power for the consumer and pressure on insurance companies - how silly.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

And you think this won't happen with single payer? Who will pay all of the extra taxes? We will who will foot the bill when people stop working because they don't have to? We will. Who's going to have nothing left after said taxes? We will.

You want to know how the ACA could have worked. The public option. As is you have to qualify for the subsidized healthcare. Originally the plan was to have a public options which would mean EVERYONE qualifies for the subsidized cost, which means NO ONE's premiums go up.

Guess who fought that? Republicans. So in the end... the Public Option was removed. Insurance Companies were now required to cover things they didn't cover before, and cover people who couldn't previously afford it. BUT, they had an out. Because there wasn't a public option, they could f*ck over everyone who could afford health insurance by driving those prices up. Hurt everyone and blame Obamacare.

The problem is Obamacare didn't go far enough. Single Payer/Public Option/Medicare For All.... This is how you achieve lower (or no) premiums and all the healthcare.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Would that be paid for by the magic money tree?

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: spiritualzombie

And you think this won't happen with single payer? Who will pay all of the extra taxes? We will who will foot the bill when people stop working because they don't have to? We will. Who's going to have nothing left after said taxes? We will.

We'll all be paying for it much more efficiently -- because it removes the billions going to the Health Insurance middle man. Imagine Health Insurance as a non-profit organization.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: spiritualzombie

Would that be paid for by the magic money tree?

There are a lot of ways to pay for it... the most common idea is a tax. By getting everyone in on it, and getting rid of the for-profit middle man, you pay much less and get all the healthcare. It's not necessarily run by a government. An insurance company could opt to run it, or any organization,but you have to imagine a non-profit... organizing a pool that can sustain everyone much more efficiently.

What I'm talking about is a better deal for people. Trump should be fighting for that deal.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

B...b...bu...but taxes!? Taxes are scary and I don't want to pay them because they're scary! I'm too poor to pay taxes! Unlike those poor people who don't pay taxes! I'm too poor!!!

Waahhh...scary tax bogeyman...waaahhhh!!!

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Since we elect them, and they say they are capable of doing these things, and because they didn't let the public read the bill prior to voting on it, I have to assert that if Obamacare didn't go far enough, it lies solely on the shoulders of the people who crafted the bill.

RE: Republicans protesting the bill....Obamas party owned both houses of congress. Why does the GOP get scapegoated? Not that I care about the GOP...but it seems to me that Obama held all the cards, and instead of putting up what he thought was the best plan, he instead chose this big stinking turd.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree Obama didn’t go far enough, but he had the GOP and fake news “death panels” twisting the minds of people. The GOP actually got people to talk about their god given right to die and deny healthcare.

The public option was there. Republicans fought hard against it, and it was removed. A lot of democrats soured on Obamacare after that moment.

Doesn’t change the point.. the problem with Obamacare is it didn’t go far enough. It left room for insurance companies to retaliate against the working class.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

you seem quite sure your socialistic love fest is the right way, and I don't think it is. I also think I can articulate why I am upset with all this.

Think back to just before the ACA. Remember what wonderful things Obama promised us all? Reduced cost for insurance as opposed to what we were paying. (that single incredible lie is the crux of my disdain) Then you have the keep your doctor, this will be better, and of course the "we need to pass it to find out what's in it".

So while you seem to think all those lies are OK, and you somehow aren't paying the highly inflated rates for garbage coverage I seem to be forced into, I am not enjoying having to subsidize everyone else, through my past inability to afford insurance (and the subsequent fine that went along with it) and the now, 5000 deductible I must meet before my # hole insurance pics up their 75%.

If you wish to continue to tell us all how great this is, Please explain how those of us who are in this same boat should find a way to be as happy getting #ed up the ass, as you seem to be. Bong hits?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Krazysh0t
So while you seem to think all those lies are OK, and you somehow aren't paying the highly inflated rates for garbage coverage I seem to be forced into, I am not enjoying having to subsidize everyone else, through my past inability to afford insurance (and the subsequent fine that went along with it) and the now, 5000 deductible I must meet before my # hole insurance pics up their 75%.

Exactly why you should have been in favor of expanding Obamacare to include a public option. Then you WOULD have qualified for the subsidized costs and the insurance companies wouldn't have the leverage on you they do now, to basically use the pain they inflict on you as a voice for them.

Just imagine a non-profit organization doing the work of insurance companies. Managing the pool of money, but NOT skimming billions off the top for themselves while figuring out ways to deny coverage. Imagine a non-profit that means no more co-pays -- and all the healthcare you need. It's a better deal for people and more efficient by removing the wasted for-profit middleman.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

The ACA wouldn't implode if Trump weren't actively sabotaging it and he should be held legally responsible for doing so. The only way the ACA implodes is if Trump lets it. All his rhetoric about it failing were lies until he started making it fail. He is playing games with the American public and this should be unacceptable to any hard blooded American.

Bull#. The exchanges were collapsing well before Trump.

Or are you saying Trump is responsible for what happened before he was elected?

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

The ACA wouldn't implode if Trump weren't actively sabotaging it and he should be held legally responsible for doing so. The only way the ACA implodes is if Trump lets it. All his rhetoric about it failing were lies until he started making it fail. He is playing games with the American public and this should be unacceptable to any hard blooded American.

Bull#. The exchanges were collapsing well before Trump.

Or are you saying Trump is responsible for what happened before he was elected?

The first couple years of Obamacare were the hardest because you had all these people who desperately needed healthcare and couldn't afford it, opting in to the system. Before Obamacare insurance companies could deny people based on pre-existing conditions, or raise rates based on how sick they were. So, yeah, you bet your *ss the insurance companies felt that while Obamacare went through it's initial phases.

But the fact remains, it has gotten stronger and stablized more-- HOWEVER, now there is a growing uncertainty by Trump to stop payments by the government to help the subsidies. If Trump stops payments then Insurance companies will be 100% on the hook for billions in healthcare payments. So Trump causes fear to destablize, and if he chooses to stop payments that will surely destabilize it.

Trump is absolutely trying to kill it off and he's lying when he says it's failing. He's failing it. It needs to be expanded on.

What I don't understand is why Republicans believe middlemen insurance companies skimming off billions of dollars that people pay into healthcare and then deny coverage to... is acceptable. Wasteful spending. All that fat. Two systems that should not be for profit... prisons and healthcare. It's sick.

You can pay hundreds of dollars a month into your insurance, go to the doctor, and you still have to pay an extra $20 co-pay, and then they find a problem, address it, and somehow the thousands you've been paying don't add up to sh*t because now you're told insurance is only going to cover "this much" or "sorry you're doctor's out of network" so none of it is covered?

But they say thanks for the money, I can now buy my second vacation home thanks to all those premiums.

Who in their right mind thinks that's a good deal...

Start with the concept of non-profit health insurance. That right there saves billions. The money isn't there for profit. It's there solely to pay for people's health. The money you put in, is not used for someone's new Yacht while your grandmother dies penniless. The money is used for healthcare. Doesn't have to be government run. Any number of organizations could manage it, and be auditable.

There are better deals out there... better options than this wasteful for-profit middleman system.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

I imagine the VA, who I do contract work for and then endless waste that I see everyday.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No he actually campaigned to repeal it. He is trying. This is another step to it.

a reply to: projectvxn

Of course they are. Just like we cannot blame anything on O since DJT is in office. It is called not taking responsibility.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: spiritualzombie

I imagine the VA, who I do contract work for and then endless waste that I see everyday.

Yep, and now imagine the compounded waste of a for-profit system where that waste is encouraged and considered profits. Where people are putting money into a system of healthcare, only to have individuals skimming millions of dollars directly into their pockets-- while coming up with reasons to deny helping the people who are paying for it.

Pay me $400 a month and I'll buy your groceries... with a few stipulations. Anytime you call me, I'm going to charge you $10. And none of the money you pay me goes toward your actually groceries. I'll get the groceries, and then tell you how much I'll cover... let's say... generally 60-75%. So, $400 a month, you pay 25-40% for the groceries, and if you ever talk to me, you pay extra. And if you go to a different store without checking with me first, you pay for it all. Oh and we haven't even talked deductible... so in addition to the $400 a month you agree to pay me, you'll also need to pay the first $2000 in groceries yourself.

And if you're wondering if my costs are really that high to require all this? No, of course not, I'm just here to make a profit.