Scotland may be first to adopt a Universal Income, will give $200 a week to every citizen for life

a reply to: Ameilia

Thanks.

200 a week seems high. But I guess that depends on what it's 200 of.

a reply to: Phage

Yes, it does. It sounds like redistribution of wealth right now.

a reply to: Ameilia

Still, if that's all it takes to survive in Scotland...

There are some advantages to the idea, at least on paper. The massive bureacracy that currently exists to decide who gets welfare and how much becomes redundant. Also the perverse incentives that can exist in the current system go away. I'd like to see the numbers.

Lets see 200 X 52 10,400. 10,400 x 5 million = 52 billion.... if they bring in 500 billion in income taxes they could just lower taxes from 40% to 30% and do the same thing...lol

Now 10,400 x 330 million = 3.4 TRILLION... Think Trump is trying to do the same thing but keep the money in our wallet to begin with.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: nOraKat
a reply to: pavil

I could care less where it comes from. A drop in the bucket compared to what goes to defense and other things.

I can sure use it. And to those who don't really need it well hopefully will boost the economy.

That's the spirit,who cares where it comes from as long as I don't have to pay for it!

Sigh....

How much is Scotland's Defense Budget? What "other things " will you get rid of for UBI? Are they enough to pay for UBI?

Trident. Scotland doesn't want it but is forced to keep it on their shores. Theresa May wrote a blank cheque in favour of Trident. It costs us trillions. One of the reasons why Scotland wants independence.

originally posted by: justwokeup
The massive bureacracy that currently exists to decide who gets welfare and how much becomes redundant. Also the perverse incentives that can exist in the current system go away. I'd like to see the numbers.

That's the idea of the Universal Credit. This is politics and because the nationalists don't want universal credit introduced because any initiative from the UK government is automatically "a wicked Tory thing".

Universal credit is where all these complex (welfare) benefits are wrapped into a single payment. "Ah look" say the nationalists, "we have a better idea. We will continue to oppose universal credit, but just give out money regardless".

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Ameilia

Thanks.

200 a week seems high. But I guess that depends on what it's 200 of.

200 a week in Scotland isn't actually high. Currently an unemployed single parent with two children receives just over that in welfare, excluding housing benefits. 200 a week would not cover basic living costs such as rent which can easily be 600-1000 a month in the private sector. Cost of living has risen a lot, some people spend more on food than their housimg if they have say a family of four. Gas and electricity are also extremely high, and Scotland is cold.

I agree with a UBI however people with children or people with disabilities would still need a top up. It would take away the nightmare for people on the lowest wages who find they are at times only £50-100 per month better off after working all month as opposed to if they didn't work and had their rent paid for them etc. However the issue is unfair on all sides as the private housing sector grossly overcharge on rent for example £1000 a month for a modest family home, where the current welfare scheme only pays £500 of this in benefits leaving people who are unemployed to conjeur the rest of their rent up from limited benefits (Tories cut benefits for families drasticly) or those on very low wages find their rent is more than their monthly wage and they receive very little in top up benefits.

I know many people who would have these stresses removed with a UBI and would happily work knowing they won't be worse off or if unemployed could actually volunteer and do something they enjoy and that is meaningful, fits around their family or other commitments etc as opposed to being forced to take any job the government forces upon you whether it will make you financially better off or not, whether it is in your own town or not, whether it is something you are not confident or comfortable doing or not. This is current government policy. If you do not take the jobs they force upon you, you are sanctioned ie punished by removing every penny of your welfare for anything from 6 weeks to 6 months. This is reality for millions just now, it is just being suppressed by media and ignored by Tories.

UBI would end a lot of suffering and administration costs in benefit calculations and roll outs. Tax credits caused chaos cost millions in errors and now universal credit is the same.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: justwokeup
The massive bureacracy that currently exists to decide who gets welfare and how much becomes redundant. Also the perverse incentives that can exist in the current system go away. I'd like to see the numbers.

That's the idea of the Universal Credit. This is politics and because the nationalists don't want universal credit introduced because any initiative from the UK government is automatically "a wicked Tory thing".

Universal credit is where all these complex (welfare) benefits are wrapped into a single payment. "Ah look" say the nationalists, "we have a better idea. We will continue to oppose universal credit, but just give out money regardless".

That's not the idea of universal credit. It is still means tested o income and outgoings such as rent and council tax. It has been a shocking catalogue of errors because as you say it replaces all the complex benefits into one benefit. So that means it is still complex to assess, the amounts vary depending on your income which can fluctuate so continual reassessment required. Rent and council tax costs are assessed, council tax can be complex if there are several adults in your home. People on disabilities are assessed. People with children are assessed.

The point of UBI is it is not means tested therefore no complex assessments.

This isn't about the Tories. The Scottish government have called upon Westminster to halt the roll out of universal credit because of all the administration errors and delays which is causing serious hardship and suffering. They have asked for it to be reviewed before it is rolled out. Tory MPs have also asked for this. All have been ignored.

originally posted by: nOraKat
I could care less where it comes from.

I do - I don't want to fund wastes of space and deadbeats with my income tax.

(Also, that phrase indicates you could, in fact, care even less than your profess to do. It's actually, "I couldn't care less", meaning - you cannot care any less as you are currently not caring at all. Just FYI.)

A drop in the bucket compared to what goes to defense and other things.

I'm very happy for my taxes to go to defence rather than 'give it away' to people who aren't doing anything for it.

I can sure use it. And to those who don't really need it well hopefully will boost the economy.

How will it 'boost' the economy?

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: nOraKat

Where are they going to get the money from?

Exactly. Who is going to pay for all this. I thought Scotland was already running a 15 billion pound deficit?

Norway has a £1 trillion oil fund from less oil and gas that has been harvested from Scottish waters yet Scotland has a £15 billion deficit and no fund whatsoever???...And you wonder why we want to go our own ways.

Oh, and How can a country that's not allowed to manage it's own financial affairs including asking the imf or anyone outside of the UK for loans be in debt...In debt to who.?

I'll admit to not reading all the responses - I can guess where most of them are going - the socialism thing, the entitled thing, the lazy thing, yadda, yaddo.

To those responders I ask - how is a national universal income any different then the yearly payments that Alaskan's receive from the oil industry?

a reply to: paraphi

You cannot call it welfare if everyone gets it. Its more like a tax refund for everyone.

originally posted by: nOraKat
a reply to: starwarsisreal

Well if everyone gets it, why?

I wouldn't want to do community service for it if I had a job.

You are one of the few. And the thing is, there are literally few who would do nothing. Most people do want to participate in society, but have no options.

I hear all the time how if universal assistance was given, everyone would just sit on their arse and do nothing. How many people who work for the fact they enjoy their work, would give it up? not many I'd think. For a lot of people having a purpose is something they crave. Not everyone is gonna sit down and watch the simpsons 24/7.

Now think about all the government agencies already paid to help people back into work, or provide assistance to the unemployed, but who don't often even care about personal circumstances and merely operate to balance the books. They are employed to cater to the unemployed. This sort of thinking, universal assistance, removes them from the situation. The funding for them, is put back into the people. And it's not a meager sum.

All I know is this. I would live off the land, preferring to gather my own means of survival, and be self sufficient. BUT I am not allowed to. I cannot just pitch a tent, I have to pay to do so. I cannot simply hunt, I have to pay to do so. I cannot subsist unless I am paying to do so, on government owned land.

If I opt to not pay, then I either starve and become homeless (again, they force homeless people out of areas of safety and into areas where they are in harms way) or I rely on welfare as governed by yet more agreements. There are many people in this situation and not all of them are there because they just want to be.

No one is free. We are indentured slaves by the act of birth. But as it stands, those who are in situations that render them either unable or unwilling to be working class, are detritus within society who don't contribute. This tactic, while joe blue collar says it's a scam, leads to people being able to at least live and contribute...

I certainly never asked if I wanted to be born a slave. Were you?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Ameilia

Still, if that's all it takes to survive in Scotland...

You could spend nights in the shelter and days at the pub.. Or visa-versa.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: nOraKat

There's another name for Universal Income, it's called welfare.

I think it would be more acceptable if people are required to do community service to get Universal Income as a form of contributing to society.

Well good for you, I think you live in the past and need to get over your medieval way of looking at the world....

It's just a social "catching net", so people that are suddenly out of a job don't immediately fall in a black hole or in extreme poverty...

So you have some time to get your life back together

Sounds like £150 in free beer vouchers to me! You can buy a lot of cheap cider for that a week...

There....now everyone has a star because regardless of right or wrong, the opinions shared are on topic and valid towards furthering constructive dialogue.

Stars shouldn't dictate an individual's input.

Back on topic:

Seems to be the dialogue sways more towards this being unsustainable in it creation...

How would it actually work, on a time table given the pains it would create INITIALLY... to being sustainable after a given time?

Economic majors....math majors...forecasters, we need your unbiased assessments.

Shoot.

a reply to: pavil

I don't know the details of their budget. I was thinking in regards to the USA if they were to do it, not specifically Scotland.

So lets see.. it would come out to about $55 Billion (US dollars) or less (to give $200 a week to every citizen). Thats about the price of a major construction project or about a few hundred modern fighter jets.

The government wants to give you a tax refund and you are complaining?! I would just accept it.