Americans Hopeful This Will Be Last Mass Shooting Before They Stop On Their Own For No Reason

a reply to: joemoe

Then why don't we shelve The Constitution, a set of laws and liive just by the rifle. Like the middle East.

Placing limitations on purchase, ownership, etc. of firearms themselves is not the solution. It simply isn't. The US is unique in the world in our freedom to carry. We have more guns than most world militaries. These are just facts.

a reply to: SudoNim

Well its clearly doing a great job

200,000 to 2 million Defensive gun use a year depending who's doing the stats.

a reply to: Gryphon66

How can you argue that after seeing the effect in Australia after their restrictions on semi/full auto and shotguns in the wake of the '96 massacre? There hasn't been another 'mass' shooting in the country since.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: joemoe

Then why don't we shelve The Constitution, a set of laws and liive just by the rifle. Like the middle East.

It is because the Constitution, we live with the Freedom we have. I realize that Government can go bad .... I've seen it and have been to places like Cambodia where I can see the worst a Government can do. Having an well Armed population is the only way to keep Government in Check. If you do not like it there are provision to change it. If you can not change it then there are so many other countries with the form of Government that you may like that you can move to.

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: SudoNim

Well its clearly doing a great job

200,000 to 2 million Defensive gun use a year depending who's doing the stats.

Exactly... whose feeding you those stats. I mean, if you discharge a firearm you must report it right? So these stats must be verifiable. Or is it all just word of mouth

Another NRA sheep.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Gryphon66

How can you argue that after seeing the effect in Australia after their restrictions on semi/full auto and shotguns in the wake of the '96 massacre? There hasn't been another 'mass' shooting in the country since.

A) The situation in the US has always been different than the situation in Australia.

more specifically

B) Legal limitations on gun ownership in the US are unconstitutional.

What gets me is how many on here seem to think that stricter gun control laws or out right bans on guns will some how magically make all the guns go away and there will not be problems any more.

That US citizens will "conform" to these laws and be good little slaves and just turn in their guns, even the criminals.

Even with the strict gun laws that we have on the books, the horrifying incident at LV still happened, and even with an out right ban on guns, could still of happened.

What then? More draconian laws? Give the police the right to kick in your door and ransack your property to search for guns without a warrant? I mean, if we can get rid of that 2nd amendment, why not get rid of that pesky 4th one? There you go! Now the gestopo law enforcement can just come right in to your house, your car, anywhere and search it, no warrant required!

What? People are hiding their guns then claiming they've been lost or stolen. No problem: round 'em up. Arrest them. We already have the largest prison population in the world, why not make it even bigger?

Oh wait, that didn't quite work, people still being sneaky and obtaining fire arms to hide, guess we'd better get rid of that stupid 3rd amendment too, right? Yep! Now we can force people to house our loyal solders who will monitor everyone!

350 million Americans. We have a LOT of people here. There are a LOT of guns here. The US is not all New York, Chicago, Miami, etc. Most of the US is still even today wild country. Plenty of remote areas that are very large. Not everyone lives in a small apartment crammed into some city.

We have plenty of laws on the books already. But what gun grabbers fail to understand is this:



Hopefully the above picture will help people understand: no mater how draconian you make the laws, people if they are willing will go around it.

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: SudoNim

Well its clearly doing a great job

200,000 to 2 million Defensive gun use a year depending who's doing the stats.

Exactly... whose feeding you those stats. I mean, if you discharge a firearm you must report it right? So these stats must be verifiable. Or is it all just word of mouth

Another NRA sheep.

Who said discharge?
Showing the business end can have some positive results.

a reply to: SudoNim

Don't go to a gun fight... stop pretending you are ever going to fight an enemy invasion or tyrannical government.

No one in their right mind wants to go to a gun fight. The criminals tends to come to them. I've been to countries where the Government failed the people and see first hand what could happen ... so no it not fantasy .... it happens all the time. Look up Cambodia ... the Khmer Rouge disarmed all the citizens before they murdered millions. I've been to the killing fields, I see the worst of Government.

a reply to: Bluntone22

More often than not... it doesn't.

I'll quote from the article again.

" [T]hey were confident that, after living through the most deadly mass shooting in modern American history and taking no material steps to change gun laws, reevaluate safety standards, increase access to mental health care, or even have a national conversation about how mass shootings could be avoided in the future, tragedies of this kind would at long last come to an end."

What solutions are there without using the words "gun control"? (Because those words simply divide even further.)

originally posted by: Gryphon66
B) Legal limitations on gun ownership in the US are unconstitutional.

Therein is the problem, and its not like the constitution hasn't been amended since its inception. You are conflating national identity with hard facts.

originally posted by: Gaspode
I'll quote from the article again.

they were confident that, after living through the most deadly mass shooting in modern American history and taking no material steps to change gun laws, reevaluate safety standards, increase access to mental health care, or even have a national conversation about how mass shootings could be avoided in the future, tragedies of this kind would at long last come to an end.

What solutions are there without using the words "gun control"? (Because those words simply divide even further.)

There you go.

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: SudoNim

Don't go to a gun fight... stop pretending you are ever going to fight an enemy invasion or tyrannical government.

No one in their right mind wants to go to a gun fight. The criminals tends to come to them. I've been to countries where the Government failed the people and see first hand what could happen ... so no it not fantasy .... it happens all the time. Look up Cambodia ... the Khmer Rouge disarmed all the citizens before they murdered millions. I've been to the killing fields, I see the worst of Government.

Well in that case, its been proven that having a gun doesn't help your odds.

Gullible fools fed fantasies by the NRA of preventing crimes.

Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime

a reply to: Gaspode

Big BIG sigh...

The first reported murder was Cain murdering his brother Abel -- and it wasn't done with a gun. Take away all the guns and those who want to commit mass murder and mayhem will find another way.

Shall we outlaw trucks too, since they can be driven on bridges and promenades and kill the masses? You note that auto manufacturers go to great lengths for safety... but any vehicle is lethal when the driver decides to make it so.

Bombs are illegal too... did that help Manchester???

And what about knives? Or arson? Or poisoning the water supplies? Shall we outlaw water??? (I have heard that dihydrogenoxide can be lethal).

And, of course, there's those other arms that are hanging from our shoulders that we've heard how lethal those are... should we outlaw limbs too?

Where does it end? It doesn't. Not even if we make any and all firearms illegal anywhere and everywhere forevermore.

a reply to: TerminalVelocity

This dumbass argument again...

Just because something is easy to do when illegal means it doesn't matter?

It would be easy for me to burn your house down, does that mean we should make arson and murder legal since it doesn't matter anyway?

The reason WHY this shooting (or any other one) happened isn't because of gun laws pro-or-con.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Where does it end? It doesn't. Not even if we make any and all firearms illegal anywhere and everywhere forevermore.

So then I imagine you are for completely open and unrestricted weapon access. I am sure arms companies would love to sell heavier/more expensive equipment to a hungry US public. Is your solution to let everyone have access to mortars, grenade launchers, mines, chemical weapons, etc merely because you can't envision a solution to the problem?

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Gryphon66
B) Legal limitations on gun ownership in the US are unconstitutional.

Therein is the problem, and its not like the constitution hasn't been amended since its inception. You are conflating national identity with hard facts.

Yes, you're right.

Last time the Constitution was amended to ban something: The 18th amendment, Prohibition, the sale and transportation of liquors was made illegal in the US.

Look at how that turned out. Made ordinary citizens into criminals and helped organized crime get even more organized.

Didn't work out so well.

Finally after 14 years it was repealed with the 21st amendment.