U.S. Debt Tops $20T

a reply to: Gryphon66

Question: What would be the implications if you were to make this 'accounting measure?'

a reply to: JinMI

It's all only ones and zeros....right?

Yep. Has no foundation, only backed by faith. Endless debt is endless interest payments, impossible to pay off.

This is what happens when the promise to back all promissory notes with hard assets (gold) in the treasury is sold to an ignorant public.

Turn in your gold, we'll hold it for you and give you a receipt (fiat currency). Its much easier for you to carry around than lugging all that cold yellow metal. Don't worry, we'll keep the gold safe in a depository and never print more promise notes than there is gold in that vault. We promise never to inflate that supply of money beyond the amount of gold in the treasury vault.

Suckers....

a reply to: muzzleflash

I quote from: How “Voodoo” Caused Most of the National Debt

Deja vu all over again — the Donald

Here’s what G. H. W. Bush saw back in 1980: “A big difference that the governor [Reagan] and I have regards his tax cut. He feels that

you can cut taxes by $70 billion the first year and still
balance the budget and
increase defense spending.”

Trump’s September-2016 economic plan would:

Cut taxes $440 billion per year
balance the budget and
increase defense spending.

These are not the only echos of the past. Reagan grew all sections of the military just as Trump promises, but his signature military boondoggle was his “Star Wars” program to “develop a sophisticated anti-ballistic missile system.” Trump proposes his own Star Wars to “develop a state of the art missile defense system” against N. Korea and Iran. (Sept 7 speech)

There is also much talk of the tax cuts boosting growth, just like under Reagan and the Bushes. Tax-cuts do create growth but that requires boosting the debt because they DO NOT pay for themselves. As explained below this is the heart of the Voodoo fallacy.

The real point here is that as of Sept 2016, Trump sounds just like Reagan and the Bushes. Prior to this, he sounded like Trump — crazy, but definitely not into the Republican Voodoo.

In other words he CAN NOT DO IT anymore than Reagan or the Bushes could. Buying growth with tax cuts do NOT pay for themselves, you must increase the debt to do so. And what happens when you finally run out of taxes to cut?

There are 540 billionaires in the United States, with a combined net worth of $2.399 trillion, according to our 2016 list of the world's richest people.Mar 5, 2016

That's about 4 times that itty bitty 317 bilion.
So you can go and ask the ritch folk for more when you need it.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: ConscienceZombie
Since money is printed on paper, it's true value is meaningless. They could just say the word and that number becomes a zero. It's not like they would lose anything. It comes out of thin air. Now we want to move to a digital currency...you f#ing kidding me...

Idiocurrency is what I'm calling it now...just invented a word...

I thought Trump said he was paying off the debt?

Maybe he intended to use idiocoins, bills, whatever they are?

Hi muzzleflash, they're called trillion dollar coins.

The answer to the 2011 debt ceiling, which was abandoned because nobody would buy it.

a reply to: JinMI

It's sound guys, your president knows all the big words, and what he has in store will be "Great".

I mean Trumps a business man, what could go wrong?

originally posted by: Daalder
There are 540 billionaires in the United States, with a combined net worth of $2.399 trillion, according to our 2016 list of the world's richest people.Mar 5, 2016

That's about 4 times that itty bitty 317 bilion.
So you can go and ask the ritch folk for more when you need it.

That's funny stuff right there.
We could take every red cent these billionaires have and would still only cover ten percent of the debt.
That should be an indication of how deep of a hole our country is really in.

a reply to: JinMI

I'm not alone in these views.

No you are not alone, and you are not alone in being a tad over concerned. I'm not saying don't be concerned, but if you understand what those numbers entail, you might be a bit more comfortable.

I quote from: How “Voodoo” Caused Most of the National Debt

The national debt in perspective

Consider what it means when the graph says 100%. It means the national debt equals one year of Gross Domestic (National) Product (GDP). So if we used the full value of what the US produces for one year just to pay off that debt, that would just do it. And 50% means, the debt would be paid off in six months of using the full output.

That sounds outlandishly huge, but consider a family making $100,000 a year that buys a $250,000 house with 20% down and takes a $200,000 mortgage. No one considers this unusual or risky. But that family would be off the top of the graph at 200%. It would take all they made for two years to pay off their debt. And the US has a slight advantage over most families. It can print money. So there is zero chance of default.

And only about 1/3 of the debt is owed to foreigners. Another 40% is owed to Americans, for example pension plans own quite a bit of it. And the rest is owed by the US government’s “General Fund” to other Government Trust Funds, like the Social Security Trust Fund and the military’s pension fund.

Stop with the doom and gloom. If, as conservatives fear, the Chinese tried to bankrupt us by cashing in all their treasury bonds. We could simply print the money and pay them. Not a problem. And no, the high debt is not harming our credit. If you have bad credit, people will only loan you money at a high interest rate. Everyone in the world is willing to loan Uncle Sam money at almost zero interest. He’s got absolutely the best credit rating in the world.

So

• 33% of the debt is foreign.
  
• 40% is U.S. Pension funds, etc
  
• 27% is debt the government owes to itself in one way or another
  

So would you like the Pension funds that own Government debt be paid down? What would they invest in then? Diamond mines in South Africa? How exactly does that "Make America Great Again"? (I gotta ask: since when has America been NOT great).

Social Security MUST BY LAW invest its income into Government securities. They cannot legally 'just be paid down'. Those funds represent the benefits owed to the investors in Social Security. The people who want to kill Social Security want all that money for themselves, remember that: they have an ulterior motive - they don't like it that Social Security must invest in America, they want it invested in their back pockets.

So 67% is GOOD debt. That is the part that the headless chooks aren't telling you.

The other 33% is CHEAP debt. Interest rates on Government borrowing are so low it is practically free - least until the President's 'superior' business methodology sends the country bankrupt as they normally do to his businesses. That is the other thing the chooks are ignoring.

If we REALLY wanted to pay that 33% down, we could just print money and be done with it. Of course we would destroy the economy in the process, but, hey why should the Mother of All Depressions get in the way of a little ideology, right?

a reply to: JinMI

Here you , watch your debt in real time below .

www.usdebtclock.org...#

a reply to: hutch622


Thanks.

I'm waiting congress and president.

20 trillion is entirely too high. It was too high during the Bush years.

Let's not make this yet another 4 years that we see no movement on reducing our debt.

The National Debt will never be paid off because... wait for it.

It's economic slavery, and its in their best interest to keep it perpetual.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: JedemDasSeine

Oh yeah huh?
Good point.

I say we invade Antarctica next.

The LAST group you want to piss off is the penguin lovers.
You think Antifa is violent?
The Disney brigade of cutesy environmentalism would tack your skin to the Mickey Mouse clubhouse wall.

The government is spend,spend,spend, and promising tax cuts for the rich. Wall Street is richer than ever. I don't think debt and deficits matter anymore. Again.

Just wait though for the next plan. Every week it seems a republican congressman announces they aren't running in 2018. Time to run away, let a new Congress with lots of new democrats win, whamo! A new group to blame, preferably, democrats.

a reply to: JinMI

Why is paying down the debt important?

a reply to: MOMof3

Republicans are just as bad as Democrats. If you think otherwise you are delusional. The same lobbyists that corrupt Democrats also corrupt Republicans. Even more so!

a reply to: eXia7

Exactly, because "They" never wish you to be able to climb out the debt hole, just to accept the scraps tossed over the side.

Economic slavery is never going to be reversed whilst the distribution of wealth remains so uneven, the debt is simply the icing on the cake really.

originally posted by: Daalder
There are 540 billionaires in the United States, with a combined net worth of $2.399 trillion, according to our 2016 list of the world's richest people.Mar 5, 2016

That's about 4 times that itty bitty 317 bilion.
So you can go and ask the ritch folk for more when you need it.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: JedemDasSeine

Oh yeah huh?
Good point.

I say we invade Antarctica next.

The LAST group you want to piss off is the penguin lovers.
You think Antifa is violent?
The Disney brigade of cutesy environmentalism would tack your skin to the Mickey Mouse clubhouse wall.

Hahahaha that was funny!
Ok, how about Sudan or Somalia?
They probably won't care much about those places...

a reply to: dfnj2015

This sort of my point. At 67 I've seen It played out many times. Republicans spend as much as democrats. But only when they rule by the majority. When it's time for democrats to spend, then the Republicans start campaigning about the deficit and debt.