F... E.U.

originally posted by: surnamename57

Sovran nation? Being an EU country? You must have a wrong perception of what EU really is.

EU stands for European Union the action of joining together or the fact of being

joined together, especially in a political context.


However the union has got bloated and power drunk and mainly

Germany/France are dictating policies to the other nations

(who it seems they consider lesser nations)

Therefor a *union* becomes a *dictatorship*


As the saying goes "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts

absolutely."

originally posted by: growler
a reply to: CulturalResilience

your lack of any understanding on the eu and/or leaving progress leads me to believe you're one of those brexit types.
adorable.

for those that don't know, team brexit swore britain would stay in the single market and would pay remaining debts and everything would be great!
now were out of the common market, something they're lying to their uneducated masses about and claiming the debt is now a divorce bill forced upon us only by an evil europe.

america has its problem with dumb trump fans regurgitating lies, i give you the brexit bunch.

Here's some more lies from a dumb Trump fan for you. You guys sort it out, yourselves. As you see fit.

We will do the same on this side of the pond.

a reply to: eletheia

Obey the rules or get out. As simple as that.

originally posted by: surnamename57

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: surnamename57

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
i was under the impression that you were implying that I would be considered an anarchist by those who were attempting to impose E.U. law on a sovereign nation. is that not what you were attempting to imply?
a reply to: surnamename57

Sovran nation? Being an EU country? You must have a wrong perception of what EU really is.

What does this mean? All nations in the EU are sovereign. There is no requirement to relinquish sovereignty to join is there?

If you accept their authority, you have got to play by their rules. Surely you retain control of your own internal affairs. However you give certain powers to a central regulatory body, not to mention some political decision which may be determined by the Court of Justice of the European Union.

I know the rules regarding membership of the EU,

The problem I have is you shouting rubbish.

I don't even disagree, but we don't do that here.

a reply to: Jonjonj

You know something about membership in the EU? Some people (like those Hungarian and Polish guys) think you can have your cake and eat it too.

As a side note, you are late to the party. I have already said above that I was referring to the Hungarian case.

And who are you anyway to think you could tell others how to talk or write about a topic?

a reply to: eletheia

synonyms: extortion, demanding money with menaces, exaction, intimidation;

Did you notice how nervous Redwood was being interviewed in the video posted earlier . There are shills here for sure . These are historic times Eletheia . I'm thinking maybe we go with farage suggestion and just walk out , a 'no deal' Brexit . I wish those silly youths that voted Corbyn knew what a stupid, at least uneducated, unpatriotic thing they all did . They don't know what their recent ancestors went through in the war and they don't realise what they won for us . It's by the by now though , and it was definitely bye bye European Union too , by the moment we all voted out. I 'm going for alcohol too . stay safe u guys

originally posted by: GeneralMayhem
I'm thinking maybe we go with farage suggestion and just walk out , a 'no deal' Brexit .

I take it that you've enjoyed the last seven years of austerity, then?

Because if a 'hard Brexit' goes ahead, the Tories will take the opportunity to implement an austerity so severe that 2010-2017 will look like a Golden Age.

a reply to: CulturalResilience

I predict the EU and China,like Islam, will try their luck at war with America,possibly in a group effort .
Not like they could actually WIN but they might be able to hit us.
IF the socialist wave continues that is.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

wut

PROTIP: Do not drop acid, play RISK, and then eat cheese before bedtime, and you will make fewer foolish posts of that ilk.

a reply to: audubon

Already HAVE THIS ICON came from it.
If you think it's foolish, I can wait about 10 years.
THEN we'll see...if Europe LASTS that long under Merkel and Soro's tender care.

originally posted by: GeneralMayhem

Did you notice how nervous Redwood was being interviewed in the video posted earlier

For some reason I couldn't get any sound on that vid. However I did see

one with Kate Hoey some where, I'm sure you will be able to find it if

interested .... basicly she said *The only thing on the EU negotiators minds

is money. That tells us something about what the EU has been all about.*

she wasn't wrong there

I'm thinking maybe we go with farage suggestion and just walk out , a 'no deal' Brexit .

We could do worse?

I wish those silly youths that voted Corbyn knew what a stupid, at least uneducated, unpatriotic thing they all did . They don't know what their recent ancestors went through in the war and they don't realise what they won for us . It's by the by now though , and it was definitely bye bye European Union too , by the moment we all voted out

Sorry but I'm afraid one of those votes was by one of my family members,

An air head student.... never listened to any political programmes, or

anything to do with politics BUT she and all of her air head contempories

were texting and face timing and instagramming each other to vote

Corybn as he was doing away with uni. fees..... thats the mentality !!!!

originally posted by: audubon

I take it that you've enjoyed the last seven years of austerity, then?

What a silly thing to say.... No one enjoys austerity

but through life there are even times when even personal/family budget needs

trimming and belts need tightening, but its gotten over.

Because if a 'hard Brexit' goes ahead, the Tories will take the opportunity to implement an austerity so severe that 2010-2017 will look like a Golden Age.

Short memory??

Neither the Tories nor Farage was responsible for the austerity.... The labor

government had been in charge of the economy for the previous 15 years and

left the incoming government with an empty purse .... and a note from the

previous member of the treasury Liam Burn saying *sorry there's no money left*

*The only thing on the EU negotiators minds is money. That tells us something about what the EU has been all about.*

Yeah, right. So far, the money is the only concrete issue on the table. David Davis and his team haven't put forward anything else to discuss. Britain is meant to be negotiating, and it's not. The UK's rightwing media, i.e., most of it, is playing this up to make the EU seem like villains. It's pathetic and embarrassing.

Ever heard of 'pigeon chess'?

The EU has no interest in making this comfortable for Britain - and why should it? This isn't taking the EU's side, it's just pointing out that the EU is the 'wronged party' in the divorce, and the UK is the 'bolter', locked out in the garden, wearing only his underpants, and pleading for his toothbrush and pyjamas.

There was always going to be a bill on the table for the UK, despite Boris Johnson saying the EU could "go whistle" for their money (which he had to retract, because - surprise! - it was another of his ridiculous lies)

I think, but am not sure, that Theresa May's strategy was to go on a global tour, come back with a suitcase full of trade deals, and plonk them on the negotiating table and say "Make us a better offer." If that was her plan, it was a very bad one - so far, she's got Japan on side. But the idea that May is capable of strategic thought at all is beginning to look unlikely.

originally posted by: eletheia
through life there are even times when even personal/family budget needs trimming and belts need tightening, but its gotten over.

The Tories aim to shrink the state, under the disguise of 'living within our means'. They have no plan to expand it again when the danger's past.

Short memory??

Neither the Tories nor Farage was responsible for the austerity....

Yes, they were. Well, not Farage. The Tories, with their henchmen the Lib Dems.

The labor government had been in charge of the economy for the previous 15 years and left the incoming government with an empty purse

No. There had been a global financial crisis and a bank bailout that cost the public billions upon billions of pounds to prevent the economy from collapsing.

Labour did not cause that global financial crisis, nor the banking crash, nor the subsequent recession.

.... and a note from the previous member of the treasury Liam Burn saying *sorry there's no money left*

That was the equivalent of an 'end of term' prank. All Government ministers leave silly notes for their successors. Burn happened to leave one that the Tories could whip out as some kind of damning proof of guilt, knowing that most of the electorate wouldn't understand the context.

Do you think Burn would have left a serious confession of misconduct lying around for his political rivals to publicise? I mean, I can understand you might not like the Labour Party for whatever reason, but surely you don't think they are insane.

A similar thing happened in the White House during the Clinton/Bush transition - the outgoing Clinton admin went round and removed the "W"s from the keyboards on White House computers.

originally posted by: Jonjonj

What does this mean? All nations in the EU are sovereign. There is no requirement to relinquish sovereignty to join is there?

Trade deals can be the first step to the loss of national sovereignty. When a group of nations make a trade deal, it creates a need for an organization to arbitrate disputes. The nations involved must agree to abide by the decisions of the arbitrator. Inevitably, the arbitrators take on more decision making powers unto themselves and require compliance.

The European Union started off as a trade agreement. Now they are telling member states how many refugees they must accept.

originally posted by: audubon
Yeah, right. So far, the money is the only concrete issue on the table. David Davis and his team haven't put forward anything else to discuss. Britain is meant to be negotiating, and it's not. The UK's rightwing media, i.e., most of it, is playing this up to make the EU seem like villains. It's pathetic and embarrassing

Havent you been listening? The EU refuse to discuss the UK leaving before

they get a financial settlement.

Have you been divorced?

You have to be divorced before you get a financial settlement.

The EU wants to change the rules.... AND....

It takes TWO sides to negotiate

The EU has no interest in making this comfortable for Britain

Why would they? They are loosing their second largest financial contributer

I bet the're gutted

Just pointing out that the EU is the 'wronged party' in the divorce, and the UK is the 'bolter', locked out in the garden, wearing only his underpants, and pleading for his toothbrush and pyjamas.

*Wronged party* .....Are you for real.

You make it sound like a bad marriage !! We were in a club, a union which

has out lived its purpose and we want OUT now.

Haven't you ever been a member of a club or gym and left??

I think, but am not sure,

Superstition is not fact.

That Theresa May's strategy was to go on a global tour, come back with a suitcase full of trade deals, and plonk them on the negotiating table and say "Make us a better offer." If that was her plan, it was a very bad one - so far, she's got Japan on side. But the idea that May is capable of strategic thought at all is beginning to look unlikely.

Haven't you heard she is not supposed to do deals till Brexit has been

finalised. And in any case she is not the one that does the deals.


You have obviously never played poker.

All a load of waffle. You're using words you don't understand, to describe concepts you can't grasp, in support of an argument you can't construct. I'm not going to argue against that post, because there is literally nothing of substance to argue with.

Fu.. the EU is right!

But not because of hateful and vindictive ex-soviet states that just want to damage russia now. Not because of eastern rightwinger states that behave now like the state in the middle of europe that kicked their asses, some decades ago.

Let´s talk about Hungary, Poland, Slovakia(the worst rightwingers governments in Europe and the EU now).
Hungary, had to take 1294 refugees. Again, 1294!!! Slovakia 902. Not even a thousand but 902!!!
But they had no problems to take the EU money to turn their (partly)ex-soviet third world sh*tholes into cheap copies of the western states. Without that EU money these righwinger states still would be the origin of miliions of refugees, migrants, that flooded middle and western Europe in the 1980´s and 1990`s!

They still have no problems to take the millions every month(like Turky, which isn´t even EU), millions they receive from Brussels, from the EU. Getting money from the EU is in reality getting money from the german taxpayers, as the world knows since the Euro Greece debacle. So it is not a wonder that those that pay most, will have the most to say, to decide. You wanna have more to say, to decide in the EU? Pay more, pay as much for example germany pays, the german taxpayers have to pay, without being asked. So that this rightwinger nations are able to look like only just build and Germany doesn´t know how to pay for it´s own schools, the digital and normal infrastructure, social things etc.

Fu*k the EU for that! Fu*k the EU for these eastern leeches states which just take, take, take but pay nothing back(except Estonia, maybe). And if they have to take 1295 or 902 refugees, while middle European states took millions(the states that pay most for the well-being of these russia hating eastern miniature states), they start to cry.

What about Poland?
I don´t have anything against polish people(except the ultranationalists, rightwingers, neonazis, PiS supporters), how could i? Some of my best friends are from polish origin, i had several girlfriends in my life that were from polish origin(thank the universe for that!), i know polish people since i can think. No wonder, i live in western Germany...

Often i ask myself if more polish people live outsides of Poland than in Poland. You meet those "a thousand times in a minute Kurwa yelling" people everywhere outside of Poland, who is left IN Poland? And the PiS government of that state of migrants and fleeing people wants to be a bit like Germany from 1933-45??? That government wants to be against migrants, foreigners and refugees? How ridicolous and paradox is that?

And for Poland it is the same like for all of those eastern EU states(which are only EU so they can become NATO and the NATO get´s cheap "human material ", to surround Russia for example). Before the EU money they were even worse than the GDR. 50, 60, 70 years behind the western states, like the neighbour Germany, for example. And who had the chance to leave these states into western direction, took that chance. Not long ago, but they seem to forget really fast!

If you join a club, let´s say a golf club(people do that often because of expanding relationships they can profit from), you have to follow the rules. For sure you should have read them before signing the membership contract. If those rules say that you have to wear suit and tie at the meetings, you wear suits and ties at the meetings.

These eastern minature states joined the EU for good trade relationships, to be able to act as the big boy against russia, to get on the same level like the western states. But they don´t even have to pay for their membership, they GET money from that "club", lots of money. But not even then they are willing to follow the rules, rules they read before they signed the membership contract. They think they only have rights but no obligations, for not paying the club that is responsible for the well-being they profit now from, in this former third world countries.

I would not be sad if those states would leave the EU. Like: No more money, every paid money has to be paid back, in the same time frame they got it from the EU(maybe german taxpayers get some of their money back, so we can renovate our schools, get good(!!!) teachers again, renew our infrastructure, because since our money is used for EU crap, Germany slowly looks like these eastern states looked before they got the EU money!). No EU profits anymore, instantly. No more money for neonazis and leeches! Then they can crawl back into the "southern exit" of russia, begging for forgiveness, for being such a loudmouth with having the EU and by that the NATO behind them.

They wouldn´t risk such a behaviour with Russia, they would creep on all fours and shake while saying "Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.". You would not hear a No. Oooh, they would take refugees and even take a bow and say thank you! Maybe it is that what they want back. But they think:

The west is so weak, so soft, we can do whatever we want, they will not punish us, but will still pay and pay and pay. Simply because.... it´s the west, and not russia(better the soviets anymore). Play by the rules you know and knew, without any cherry picking, or leave and make your own money, after paying your debts back!

I am not saying this because i like the EU, i hate it, but because it is just the next step to a "one world government"(better something like in the book 1984, because you need enemies from the outside, as a ruler, to keep the people caught up in fear), a "one world government" where a few ultrarich beings rule the whole world.

And not because the "poor", "poor" eastern states that are forced to take "millions of refugees at once"... Remember, Hungary 1294 and Slovakia 902 refugees, for example. If i would get millions over millions every month, since years, i would take 1294 or 902 refugees in my country. I would show a bit of gratitude for the fact that my former sh*thole of a eastern european third world country is not a sh*thole anymore. I would show a bit of gratitude for those, that pay now the bills for the whole effing EU and it´s Euro, for those that didn´t hit, kick, pepperspray my own people some years ago, when they were millions of migrants that flooded the west. And not act like a little Hobby Hitler that risks the EU money, the guarantee for the well-being of "his own" people.

No, those states are not forced by the EU community to do something they don´t want to, they are forced to fullfill the contracts they signed. But they would have signed everything to get the EU money, hoping that they never have to pay anything back, let it be money or with taking a few refugees.

These selfish states are the last reason to hate elites brotherhoods like the EU!
They are and were not "raped" by the EU, they sucked on it´s breasts and felt really good, till mommy said that neverending sucking is not everything, that they maybe have to grow, stand on their own feet and pay at least a bit back, and if it just is goodwill.

Would you feed such a selfish child till it is 50, while it only takes, demands, but pays nothing back for living pretty comfortable and good ?

As i said, there a million GOOD reasons to be against the EU, but now becasue of how "bad" these east european leeches were treated by the EU, with paying them uncountable millions other EU taxpayers had and have to pay for!

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
Fu.. the EU is right!

I feel your frustration .... and everything you say is correct, The EU is bloated

it has out lived its usefulness, the bigger things get they loose sight of what

is important. You have an election coming up its time you let in a new broom

to make a clean sweep. I hope you get a change to improve your situation

If you join a club, let´s say a golf club(people do that often because of expanding relationships they can profit from), you have to follow the rules. For sure you should have read them before signing the membership contract. If those rules say that you have to wear suit and tie at the meetings, you wear suits and ties at the meetings.

Yes and like all clubs Gym, golf and any other type if you cant afford the fees

you dont get in. But all the countries you have mentioned havent met the criteria

required but they have still been allowed to join ...... ?? One can only wonder WHY

and to whose advantage.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
What does this mean? All nations in the EU are sovereign. There is no requirement to relinquish sovereignty to join is there?

Ah, now there's the problem. When most nations joined the EU, the EU was something else. Sovereignty was defined. You just need to look at the scale and scope EU directives and laws that have had on impact on UK legislation in the last couple of decades. Legislation is supposed to be the main purpose of Parliament, with all the democratic controls and scrutiny, but this has not happened, hence the loss of sovereignty.

So yes, sovereign nations relinquish sovereignty when joining the EU, and those who have been pre-existing members (like the UK) have seen a creeping loss.

Watch this space. With the UK leaving, Germany and France will push for closer federalisation and centralisation of power. Before the average Latvian, or Italian knows it their government will become an irrelevant tradition with no real power.