The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

And whats the collective gain of a Germany in ruins? At some point it would be wise not to ignore the rest of the story. Ya know... the important part after liars uttered their promises, just to check if anything was delivered at all. Guess what?

I'm not saying all socialists delivered either, China is a betrayal to Maos ideals just like Stalin betrayed Lenin and Marx. It's a complex topic, people study this stuff for years to get a grip on the nuances. You know that, right?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
...
The "left" cares about individuals ... individual well-being and individual freedom. It is liberal and progressive.

The "right" cares about the state ... laws, traditions and the Nation. It is conservative and reactionary.

You can't lie about this ... the matter is well-known and understood.

wow... how the hell is collectivism which is a socialist/left-wing idea good for "individual freedom"?...

Collectivism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that emphasizes the group and its interests. Collectivism is the opposite of individualism. Collectivists focus on communal, societal, or national interests in various types of political, economic, and educational systems.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

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a reply to: PublicOpinion

It is well known that the actual economic ideology of the Nazis was CRONY CAPITALISM.

Sure, they told the BIG LIE at the beginning, and promised social programs ... but all they wanted was PURE TOTALITARIAN POWER ... which is the defining characteristic of the Right Wing.

Crony capitalism is an economy in which businesses thrive not as a result of risk taken for them, but rather, as a return on money amassed through a nexus between a business class and the political class. This is done using state power to crush genuine competition in handing out permits, government grants, special tax breaks, or other forms of state intervention over resources where the state exercises monopolist control over public goods, for example, mining concessions for primary commodities or contracts for public works.

Wiki

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Collectivism is the good of the Nation ... of the group.

Individualism is the good of the person ... of each member of society equally.

Hitler wanted the highest good to be the GERMAN NATION. He was the ultimate collectivist and therefore right-wing.

Here's what he said about it:

The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute therefore the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood.

~Adolf Hitler

This is all really a lot more simple than you're making it ... you've just got to realize you have everything backwards.

How many sources have to tell you that the Nazis were far right-wing until you get it?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Every definition from all of your accepted sources tells you quite clearly that the "left wing" is LIBERAL

Back to your Bible ... Wikipedia:

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programmes such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, gender equality and international cooperation.

Liberalism first became a distinct political movement during the Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among philosophers and economists in the Western world. Liberalism rejected the prevailing social and political norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition. Locke argued that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property, while adding that governments must not violate these rights based on the social contract.

Liberalism is the value of the individual and their rights and is directly OPPOSED to nationalism and conservatism.

It just can't be made any more clear for you.

Conservatism is a political and social philosophy that promotes retaining traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. By some definitions, conservatives have variously sought to preserve institutions including religion, monarchy, parliamentary government, property rights and the social hierarchy, emphasizing stability and continuity, while the more extreme elements called reactionaries oppose modernism and seek a return to "the way things were"

Wiki

So again ...what were Hitlers greatest STATED GOALS? To RESTORE the power of the GERMAN NATION and the TRADITIONS of the German People their Culture and their Civilization.

Again, by any definition RIGHT WING.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

And whats the collective gain of a Germany in ruins? At some point it would be wise not to ignore the rest of the story. Ya know... the important part after liars uttered their promises, just to check if anything was delivered at all. Guess what?

I'm not saying all socialists delivered either, China is a betrayal to Maos ideals just like Stalin betrayed Lenin and Marx. It's a complex topic, people study this stuff for years to get a grip on the nuances. You know that, right?

Germany in ruins?... wth...

BTW, what the heck is "proletariat dictatorship" if not chaos?... You forget that there are branches of socialism/communism that advocate violent revolutions to implement "socialism/communism"...

China is a betrayal to Mao's ideals? are you freaking insane?... Mao's ideals included "The Great Leap Forward"... As Mao, and the CCP ordered peasants to work and what to do (Great individual freedom right Gryphon?...) and as the state, under orders from Mao collected more grain than was produced, it caused mass famine which was made even worse by the brutality of left-wing lunatics which caused the death of 36-45 million Chinese peasants...

Some left-wing lunatics have claimed that Mao didn't know about the famine, which is a lie. Mao himself stated in a meeting:

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To distribute resources evenly will only ruin the Great Leap Forward. When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.
...

chinaperspectives.revues.org...

Your denial of the truth about socialism/communism is similar to how the Chinese government still treats the famine caused by the left-wing lunatic Mao as "a natural disaster"...

Mao, and the reds also deny, just like you do, the truth about socialism/communism...

China's Great Famine: the true story
...
Half a century on, the government still treats the famine as a natural disaster and denies the true death toll. "The root problem is the problem of the system. They don't dare to admit the system's problems … It might influence the legitimacy of the Communist party," Yang says.
...

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: Gryphon66

The Lebensborn wasn really there to secure the survival of the race either. What a gullible piece of work. You can take any Nazi lie you want and he'll keep telling himself, that it's just another socialists problem.

real earnings in 1938 were all but the same as the 1928 figure. Real earnings are wages adjusted to allow for inflation.

www.historylearningsite.co.uk...

And that's the economic miracle they promised? Don't think so, no. It's comedy gold at this point and we're adding content like fcking crazy. Look what he's done to this thread!

#Winning

originally posted by: Gryphon66


So again ...what were Hitlers greatest STATED GOALS? To RESTORE the power of the GERMAN NATION and the TRADITIONS of the German People their Culture and their Civilization.

Again, by any definition RIGHT WING.

Similar promises made by socialists and communists, but I guess, just like always, you are going to claim this is not true and it was "the right/capitalists" who caused this...

Socialists/communists, and even the left in general, never admit to the failures of their systems...

Mao would be proud of your denials...

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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You keep hammering away that there were Nazis in the "Occupy Movement" without evidence, and now you are confusing Anti-Zionism with Anti-Semitism. It is possible to be a practicing Jew who believes in assimilation without being Anti-Semitic. It has to do with theology, not racism. The fact of the matter is that Nazism arose as a reaction to the liberal politics of the Weimar Republic, just as Fascism in Italy (and elsewhere) was a reaction to Socialism.

Here you go. BTW, try not to give any excuses...




Oh and btw, fascism in Italy wasn't a reaction to socialism, it was a reaction of socialism... In case you didn't know, Mussolini was a lifelong socialist.

Here is what a socialist anarchist, or anarchist socialist has to say about Mussolini...

Brian Arkton, Amateur Researcher & Thinker
...

I like to point out that Fascism is centered on the nation and it's values. This means Italian Fascism can't just be applied to another country the same way(which is one reason fascism in accurate description is complicated because it's a very broad issue not as simple as "racist imperalists")

So Mussolini didn't change from a socialist to fascist. He simply became a socialist that had a stronger belief in a united nation that overcame social hierarchy through labor for the benefit of the state(as a whole), and defended by the "warrior-spirit" of all it's citizens.
...

www.quora.com...

The nazi Ideology was such a complex and complicated political movement and belief system that I don't really think you can just say that it was a right ideology or a left one or make comparisons to what the left and the right is today in the US.

For example the belief in an ancient master race and the supremacy of the Aryan race is pretty unique to NAZI ideology. They went so far as to breed people the deemed racially supreme. A program was set up to breed people with what the nazis deemed aryan characteristics blond hair blue eyes nordic traits.



We also have the holocaust that not only killed many jewish people but also others that the nazis found racially inferior.
So a core tenet of the Nazi ideology was the racial supremacy of the aryan race.


Certain parts of nazism contained germanic occult pagan beliefs that were part of their ideology.



I guess what I am getting at is that it intellectually dishonest to just make such a broad statement that the nazis are of the left or socialist like marxist socialist.
Without digging deep into their history and ideology.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Stop smoking crack for a second and breathe, for electric universes sake! What's next, Holodomor?

I'll go out on a limb here, Venezuelas problems are due to the socialist ideals as well? Try Abby Martin for that.

As for the claim from some members that "nationalism is inclusive to right-wing ideologies"...

Nationalism
politics

Nationalism, ideology based on the premise that the individual’s loyalty and devotion to the nation-state surpass other individual or group interests.

Nationalism is a modern movement. Throughout history people have been attached to their native soil, to the traditions of their parents, and to established territorial authorities; but it was not until the end of the 18th century that nationalism began to be a generally recognized sentiment molding public and private life and one of the great, if not the greatest, single determining factors of modern history. Because of its dynamic vitality and its all-pervading character, nationalism is often thought to be very old; sometimes it is mistakenly regarded as a permanent factor in political behaviour. Actually, the American and French revolutions may be regarded as its first powerful manifestations. After penetrating the new countries of Latin America it spread in the early 19th century to central Europe and from there, toward the middle of the century, to eastern and southeastern Europe. At the beginning of the 20th century nationalism flowered in the ancient lands of Asia and Africa. Thus the 19th century has been called the age of nationalism in Europe, while the 20th century has witnessed the rise and struggle of powerful national movements throughout Asia and Africa.
...

www.britannica.com...

Nationalism is not inclusive with right-wing ideologies. In fact, many left-wing ideologies are/were also nationalistic.

Here is an example of a "National Socialist" group.

National Socialist Party of Tripura is a political party in the Indian state of Tripura. NSPT was formed when Hirendra Tripura and others broke away from the Indigenous Nationalist Party of Tripura in the summer of 2003. One of the principal leaders of INPT, Shyamcharan Tripura, took the side of NSPT. With the help of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) (CPI(M)) members in the Tripura Tribal Areas Autonomous District Council NSPT were quickly able to win control over the TTAADC.

In the 2005 elections to the TTAADC the NSPT contested four seats, supported by the Left Front. All four candidates were elected.

In spite of the name, the party has no connection with Nazism or any other European use of the term "national socialism".
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is another...

National Socialist Council of Nagaland - Khaplang

Incidents and Statements involving NSCN-K: 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 1988-2012

Formation

The National Socialist Council of Nagaland – Khaplang (NSCN-K) was formed on April 30, 1988, consequent to an assassination attempt on the General Secretary of what emerged as the rival outfit – NSCN (IM) – Thuingaleng Muivah. Clannish divisions among the Nagas (Konyaks and Tangkhuls) were the primary reason behind the split of the NSCN in 1988. The Konyaks formed the NSCN-K (Khaplang) under the leadership of Khole Konyak and S S Khaplang. The Tangkhul faction, the NSCN-IM (Isak-Muivah), was led by Isak Chisi Swu and T. Muivah.
...
Objectives

The primary objective of the NSCN-K is the establishment of a ‘greater Nagaland’ comprising of the Naga dominated areas of the neighbouring States within India, and contiguous areas in Myanmar.
...

www.satp.org...

There are many more, and most of them are not "right-wing"...

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Stop smoking crack for a second and breathe, for electric universes sake! What's next, Holodomor?

I'll go out on a limb here, Venezuelas problems are due to the socialist ideals as well? Try Abby Martin for that.

Nope, wrong, sorry to rain on your parade but I don't smoke anything...

As for you implying that Venezuela's problems is not due to socialism?... it kind of reminds me of...

...
They don't dare to admit the system's problems … It might influence the legitimacy of the Communist party," Yang says.
...

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: SolAquarius

It's worse. The whole notion, that national socialism was just a different branch of socialism, only proliferates Nazi propaganda as if nothing happened at all. Goebbels would probably cry if he could, deeply touched by the fact that his own drivel found fertile grounds in someone elses head today.

Even the aryan stuff is a copycat from the indian mythology and racial theories were kinda trending at that time, not to mention the history of expelled jewish communities and their struggle in a backward leaning Empire. It's really tough to find a single unique concept with the Nazis.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

sorry to rain on your parade

Not sorry to piss on your pile of lies and Nazi propaganda though, thanks!

You'll get carried away by the next femine in a so-called socialist system and I need you to focus on the Nazi enterprise again in order to kill the walking dead Goebbels in your head.

In spite of the name, the party has no connection with Nazism or any other European use of the term "national socialism". ...

Do you even read your own links? Talk to the hand!

originally posted by: PublicOpinion


Not sorry to piss on your pile of lies and Nazi propaganda though, thanks!

ROFLMAO... wow, you, and the other members who keep talking crap about me are wrong.. i am not a NAZI, and pointing out that there are many NATIONAL SOCIALIST systems and groups which are not white shows the truth that nationalism is not "white power"... So keep[ your insults for your private life.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion

In spite of the name, the party has no connection with Nazism or any other European use of the term "national socialism". ...

Do you even read your own links? Talk to the hand!

It seems obvious you don't understand that... NATIONALISM IS NOT INCLUSIVE IN RIGTH-WING IDEOLOGY...

National Socialism is not rightwing because neither socialism, nor nationalism are right-wing... nationalism can be found in left-wing and right-wing countries...

Left-wing regimes like Cuba, the U.S.S.R., China, North Korea, Venezuela, among many others are/were "nationalistic"...

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Heh heh.

Reading is fundamental.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You mean you still don't know left from right???

Jeez.