Three Armed Taco Bell Employees Win Shootout With Armed Robbers

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: putnam6
a reply to: SRPrime

Respectfully bullchit. who cares about statistics, you have the wrong guy come in you get shot even if you give up the money,then what are you going to tell his family "well statistics say he shouldn't have got shot".

In situation like that you expect the creep with the gun robbing a Taco Bell to be think logically. These guys being employees knew it was likely they would get robbed sooner or later, and said 'm not going to risk that every late shift at 7.50 an hour. Nor am I going to worry every night at work that some nutjob is gonna come in while all I got in my hand is the sour cream injector.

Hokay. You're just stupid then. They got lucky -- the robber had his gun out first and trained, if he would have intended to kill, he would have shot when they defied his order to get on the ground.

So here, lets say this robber was gonna shoot them, they would have gotten shot. The only reason they didn't is because the robber had no intention of shooting in the first place and didn't even fire.

If I have my gun out and pointed at you, no -- you're not gonna beat me with a "quick draw" -- you're gonna get shot if my intention is to shoot you. The only way you get shots off in the first place is if my intention wasn't to shoot, therefor -- shooting at robbers is always stupid. They risked their lives pulling, not the other way around -- I don't expect untrained plebes to understand.

Statistics save lives, smart people care about statistics and tactics. I carry too by the way. You draw if you're concealed and your presence is unknown or you break line of sight and your position is again unknown, you don't draw if you're already being stuck up. Only a moron would do that, and if you carry -- you'll be dead with that mentality.

Respectfully, your entire response is bullchit.

LOL. what a crock of chit. He didn't expect them to be armed, he expected them to meekly lay down.

So you carry? and you are in the restaurant and you wouldn't have drawn your gun?

a reply to: SRPrime

but not sorry, you're stupid.

There you go again.

Why is it stupid to stand up and fight for your life?

I bet you the browns chicken employees wished they had a chance to be stupid.

originally posted by: putnam6
a reply to: SRPrime

So these guys that you say didn't want to hurt anybody at all, certainly didn't want to add to an armed robbery charge are gonna stand their ground, lol they are gonna book like rabbits just like they guy that got away did. Because they rob places like that because they expect no resistance, not to mention I'd rather have Mr.I don't want to hurt anybody, dodging bullets while he is shooting at me than taking careful aim because there was just 20 bucks in the till.

What?

You're gonna risk your life over 20$ in the till and bet he won't shoot you? You were just saying you'd pop off because you don't know who will and won't shoot, but the fact of the matter is simple.

If he's aiming at you already with his finger on the trigger, all he has to do is move a finger and you die. You have to reach, grab, pull, aim, and squeeze, all he has to do is squeeze.

What do you not get? You already lost if he's a killer. 95% of them aren't killers, so in the situation in which you already lost if he was, you hope that he's in the 95% and not the 5%.

Even if their intent isn't to kill, if he identifies you're drawing and feels threatened, he might be driven to kill, so you can turn one of those 95 percenters into one of the five percenters.

There is no logic, restraint, or training in the way you think you should handle it -- and it's cowboys like you who get shot trying to be tough.

You want to die for the 20$ of insured money in the till? That's a much greater risk than emptying the till. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: SRPrime

but not sorry, you're stupid.

There you go again.

Why is it stupid to stand up and fight for your life?

I bet you the browns chicken employees wished they had a chance to be stupid.

Because you're not fighting for your life, you're committing suicide.

Again;

If he's aiming at you already with his finger on the trigger, all he has to do is move a finger and you die. You have to reach, grab, pull, aim, and squeeze, all he has to do is squeeze.

If he's a killer, you die if you reach, you die if you don't. If he's not a killer, you might make him into one if he identifies you're reaching. If he's not a killer and you don't reach, he walks away with your bosses money and gets scooped up by the police later and you get to go home that night.

You see, in 2 out of 3 of those scenario's you die, one of them you live. If you opt for the two that will most probably kill you, then you're committing suicide.

Suicide is stupid if your intent is to live. This is called Risk Assessment, and anybody actually trained in combat will understand.

It's pretty simple, what part do you need to be clearer?

a reply to: infolurker

Ive had that type of issue myself. Carry concealed legally at workplace where they dont allow it and get fired? I stood my ground that I'd rather save mine or anothers life and lose my job....than DIE.

I won...Now, a few years on....and as a city employee...EVERYONE carries...ladies, younger people and even seniors.

Now a days? Its just not safe anyplace....That's 1 for the Taco Bell employees! "Yo Kero Taco Bell!"

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Gothmog

Gotta agree. Clint was cooler. Badder too.

And there was the Great One . Norris. I was not worthy of that title.
More than a few do call me Sam though . Sam Elliot. Say I am his exact twin. Soft spoken. Little to say . Just TCOB
Back to the OP. And your post. No , we do not pretend to be any movie character. Most of us feel we will protect ourselves , our friends , and anyone around us as best we can.
If you truly feel that way , if you are ever in my State in the US , just say your screen name and you have my word as a Southern Gentleman I will not lift a finger to assist you if you run into bad guys.....

a reply to: SRPrime

Bro, if you want to lay down and die that's on you but I'm not, I will fight for my life.

Good day to you.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: SRPrime

Bro, if you want to lay down and die that's on you but I'm not, I will fight for my life.

Good day to you.

You will die fighting, while I live handing over the 20$. Again, I'm trained in combat, I understand risk assessment. If you want to die because you cannot calculate risk and make the decision that has the highest probability of survival, die "fighting."

I will fight, if the probability of survival fighting is greater than my probability not fighting, don't get me twisted, but an armed robbery you're already at a disadvantage and nearly all armed robbers take the money and run. So why pray tell, would you call surviving and being smart by making a positive risk assessment "laying down and dying"?

Because you lack intelligence, and that makes you stupid. You don't take fights that you're disadvantaged in unless you HAVE to. It's that simple.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: putnam6
a reply to: SRPrime

Respectfully bullchit. who cares about statistics, you have the wrong guy come in you get shot even if you give up the money,then what are you going to tell his family "well statistics say he shouldn't have got shot".

In situation like that you expect the creep with the gun robbing a Taco Bell to be think logically. These guys being employees knew it was likely they would get robbed sooner or later, and said 'm not going to risk that every late shift at 7.50 an hour. Nor am I going to worry every night at work that some nutjob is gonna come in while all I got in my hand is the sour cream injector.

Hokay. You're just stupid then. They got lucky -- the robber had his gun out first and trained, if he would have intended to kill, he would have shot when they defied his order to get on the ground.

So here, lets say this robber was gonna shoot them, they would have gotten shot. The only reason they didn't is because the robber had no intention of shooting in the first place and didn't even fire.

If I have my gun out and pointed at you, no -- you're not gonna beat me with a "quick draw" -- you're gonna get shot if my intention is to shoot you. The only way you get shots off in the first place is if my intention wasn't to shoot, therefor -- shooting at robbers is always stupid. They risked their lives pulling, not the other way around -- I don't expect untrained plebes to understand.

Statistics save lives, smart people care about statistics and tactics. I carry too by the way. You draw if you're concealed and your presence is unknown or you break line of sight and your position is again unknown, you don't draw if you're already being stuck up. Only a moron would do that, and if you carry -- you'll be dead with that mentality.

Respectfully, your entire response is bullchit.

LOL. what a crock of chit. He didn't expect them to be armed, he expected them to meekly lay down.

So you carry? and you are in the restaurant and you wouldn't have drawn your gun?

Damn right I would have if they didn't know I was there or their focus was on the other side of the room, but if their focus is on me and the gun is already pointed and me and trained -- hell no, that's called suicide. Only an untrained person would do that.

The inverse is also true, if someone is standing 2 feet in front of me with the gun in my face, no -- I won't draw, I'll just take the gun out of his hand and shoot him with that instead. He can't fire before I can disarm him, because the disarm happens faster than his ability to process visual stimuli.

This is why you don't draw on people in under 10 feet of space.

If I was robbing a place, I probably wouldn't expect them to carry, but if I saw them reach, I'd shoot -- because I want to live. Get me? Expectation doesn't control battle, observation and awareness does.

If you're a gun owner, you need training. I don't want people like you going John Wayne or Clint Eastwood and starting fire fights when the deck is stacked against you, increasing the chances that bystanders are now going to take a bullet.

You take shots when the probability of success is high, especially in public places. Bullets travel, if you miss -- what about the person on the side walk walking by?

a reply to: SRPrime

Jeez dude you dont know me I dont carry cause i aint paranoid enough yet LOL. I'm about the furtherest thing from a cowboy LOL I do know how to handle a gun however ever since i was kid love hunting . I do respect the fact that these guys didn't just sit back and wait and see if they ere going to get shot or not. I mean you do know unarmed people get shot and killed every day. Just awhile back a 18 year girl at bus stop gets robbed guy takes her purse no witnesses he going get away with it and he shoots and kills her. You want me to get personal my daughter is staying at her boy friends apartment, he isn't there he works late, somebody breaks in steals her purse tries to grab the TV. She is in the bedroom and hears this and is petrified, next they at the bedroom door its opening, thank goodness they have a dog and it growls and the chit head leaves

Would you rather your daughter be there without a gun, or with a gun? Because the next day she got her pistol and hid it in the closet at the apartment

PS she is trained and knows how to use it.

There are many workers who are dead despite complying with the robbery demands. Happened in my old neighborhood. No need to kill the clerk but did anyway.

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: SRPrime

Bro, if you want to lay down and die that's on you but I'm not, I will fight for my life.

Good day to you.

You will die fighting, while I live handing over the 20$. Again, I'm trained in combat, I understand risk assessment. If you want to die because you cannot calculate risk and make the decision that has the highest probability of survival, die "fighting."

I will fight, if the probability of survival fighting is greater than my probability not fighting, don't get me twisted, but an armed robbery you're already at a disadvantage and nearly all armed robbers take the money and run. So why pray tell, would you call surviving and being smart by making a positive risk assessment "laying down and dying"?

Because you lack intelligence, and that makes you stupid. You don't take fights that you're disadvantaged in unless you HAVE to. It's that simple.

Well, guess what?

High highly doubt any of us would try to "out draw" a criminal who already had a gun pointed at your face.

But if you are combat trained then you must know that in chaotic situations the armed robbers are generally armatures and erratic and not exactly covering everyone at the same time.

If the opportunity is there and I believe there is a chance the criminal might kill us, I sure as hell would shoot them if safe to do so.

a reply to: SRPrime

You talk about how stupid it is to fight for your life but then say you will take a gun away from a person when pointed at your face and then shoot them with their gun, but I'm the stupid one.

a reply to: infolurker

Play with fire you'll get burned. I always said I have no sympathy for criminals. If these 3 employees were not armed, who knows if they would have lost their lives? Every time a victim turns the table on criminals, it sends out a message to other criminals...

"think twice before committing a crime, you may lose your life in the process."

originally posted by: putnam6
a reply to: SRPrime

Jeez dude you dont know me I dont carry cause i aint paranoid enough yet LOL. I'm about the furtherest thing from a cowboy LOL I do know how to handle a gun however ever since i was kid love hunting . I do respect the fact that these guys didn't just sit back and wait and see if they ere going to get shot or not. I mean you do know unarmed people get shot and killed every day. Just awhile back a 18 year girl at bus stop gets robbed guy takes her purse no witnesses he going get away with it and he shoots and kills her. You want me to get personal my daughter is staying at her boy friends apartment, he isn't there he works late, somebody breaks in steals her purse tries to grab the TV. She is in the bedroom and hears this and is petrified, next they at the bedroom door its opening, thank goodness they have a dog and it growls and the chit head leaves

Would you rather your daughter be there without a gun, or with a gun? Because the next day she got her pistol and hid it in the closet at the apartment

PS she is trained and knows how to use it.

A break in is a completely different scenario from a stickup.

In the purse stealing case, that's probably where her pistol would have been. Ladies -- it's incredibly stupid to keep your pistol in your purse, if you're reading. I also don't know how a gun would save you in that situation unless he took his time and gave you opportunity.

You often don't get to retaliate on a surprise attack -- but in the event you do have the ability to, sure -- you would in that situation.

But working in a retail store or fast food chain is not that. Yes it does happen, but if you watch all the times someone draws while getting robbed and compare that to the amount of people who get shot when they complied, you'll find that more people who draw die.

You have to understand that.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: SRPrime

You talk about how stupid it is to fight for your life but then say you will take a gun away from a person when pointed at your face and then shoot them with their gun, but I'm the stupid one.

I'm trained to do it and have disarmed 3 people in my life in real stickup situations, I didn't ever shoot, I just counter stuck them up, at a distance and made them lie on the ground until police arrived. You cannot fire before I can disarm you. It's not possible, and that's why you never hold someone up in under 10 feet.



This is not a joke. This is very real, and very practical. If you hold a gun to my face that close, you're getting shot or counter stuck up every single time.

a reply to: SRPrime

Sure bro, sure.

a reply to: SRPrime

Woulda coulda shoulda... that's your response?

An armed robbery was successfully averted and a thug is dead.

Seems like a win for the 2nd to me.

Darwin has welcomed his new arrival with open arms as well.

a reply to: SRPrime

No her pistol wouldn't be in her purse LOL she isn't paranoid either.

Glad to hear you would draw down if the situation was perfect.Shouldn't you statiscally just lay down too. But how are you gonna know how much money is in the till. why would the situation change just cause you are packing,are going to be able to take down 2 guys before they shoot somebody who's just an innocent employee and what if you miss and that bullet kills somebody in the drive through.

Unfortunately not every body can train and be a master at risk assessment sometimes people just want to live their lives and then are thrown into situations and do the best they can, when some azzhole pulls a gun. Unless it was a set up these guys did great.

BTW I never said I'd pull a gun and start a roooting and a shooting like a cowboy. You assumed that just because I applauded this situation. Never said it, never implied it, just was happy at what they did and understood why they did it.

And I love to see those statistics of were armed people are killed more in robberies than unarmed persons.

Damn, I came in here expecting mutant three-armed taco bell workers with a gun in each hand.