Why Should I Feel Bad for Illegals?

originally posted by: ClovenSky
I have a question if you don't mind. Why don't you share in responsibility of not being able to obtain a proper support staff? If you would have offered a more generous wage for those undesired positions, maybe they would have filled easier?

Why should I offer someone more than what the present dishwasher is/was making?

In not being able to easily fill those positions as the others, does that then open the door to hiring illegals? Do you still pay all of the employer taxes on those employees like you would for a valid Social Security Card holder?

Everyone that worked for me had a TIN/SSN number. As an employer you can only ask for their card and check it against the registry. It doesn't tell you if the person is illegal/legal or not, only that the number is valid.

Maybe you are right. The biggest dent in this problem could be made by going after the employers of these illegals instead of the law breakers themselves.

You can but I don't think people are prepared to pay the actual costs of many of the products/services they are presently used to, particularly those in lower income brackets. Illegal immigration is America's dirty not-so-secret, we all benefit from it in some capacity but also ignore it while doing so.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Did you gain any advantage by hiring certain people, beyond the fact they were willing to work for less? Say in taxes or unemployment fees?

So if you can get the cheaper labor by ignoring the laws, it is completely justified because it may benefit your patrons? The store down the street is just stupid because they are obeying the laws and if they go out of business because they can't compete, it is their fault?

That is kind of a dangerous road don't you think or am I just being a prude?

originally posted by: ClovenSky
Did you gain any advantage by hiring certain people, beyond the fact they were willing to work for less? Say in taxes or unemployment fees?

No, you pay the actual Federal, State, SUI and other taxes regardless. It's much worse to get caught evading taxes than to have someone potentially illegal on the books. You don't mess with the IRS.

So if you can get the cheaper labor by ignoring the laws, it is completely justified because it may benefit your patrons? The store down the street is just stupid because they are obeying the laws and if they go out of business because they can't complete, it is their fault?

That is kind of a dangerous road don't you think or am I just being a prude?

It's a grey area. You can kind of guess who may be illegal or not but if their paperwork checks out and they are willing to work for what you're offering then that is the way it goes.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thank you very much for the replies. Just trying to educate myself further here. One more question and I will leave you alone for a while (unless you want to part with the secrets to the bromance ... I need to keep my soul and liver for a while longer)

If there were an easy system to identify illegals, would you use it or do you prefer the current system?

originally posted by: ClovenSky
If there were an easy system to identify illegals, would you use it or do you prefer the current system?

The company I currently work for does full background checks so it would expose if you were here illegally or not. That may be too costly for small business that don't have the same resources that we do so it really depends on how approachable that system happens to be for the business owner.

All those who are NOT American need to get the hell out. After all, I am soooo much better because of which side of the line, drawn 100's of years ago, I was born on. Other humans besides us 'Mericans suck and needs to git out. I am a Christian and Jesus made be born here so I could be better than all his others that he made be born in other places. And did you know that because them immigrants is educated, they take away my opportunity to be an engineer. Just cause I have no degree don't mean they wouldn't have to hire me if those smart people were gone. See, they are takin my jobs. Sure, they go to fancy colleges and improve themselves, but look what that does to me. It's all THEUR fault.

a reply to: Metallicus

Pretty much everyone except Native Americans are illegal here.

Here's another reason for you I don't think anybody has brought up yet:

Because there but for the grace of God go you.

All of us are only ever one national catastrophe away from becoming immigrants/refugees ourselves.

I feel no more sorry for illegal immigrants than I do bank robbers. Both are trying to take something that isn't theirs. Once we feed our own poor, our own homeless, perhaps then we can consider doing something about someone else's citizens.

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Why should I feel bad for illegals ?

One should not.

Thanks to the real life Game of Thrones we all watch on a daily basis.

A political group that shall remain nameless would granted instant citizen ship to the night king, and his ice zombie horde if they existed in real life. Only because it would put them back in the White House, and control of congress.

True story.

If anyone thinks illegal immigration is about people it isn't.

It's bout power and control.

The most precious commodity in this country isn't gold,silver,cryptocurrency.

It's your VOTE.

10-30 million ILLEGALS had the right to vote in the last election.

Trump wouldn't be president.

Cersei Lannister wannabe would be.

a reply to: Metallicus

Basically it's because it's Obama's Legacy.

a reply to: seeker1963

So we can't deport those here illegally for what their parents did. Yet I am held responsible for things my grandparents and great grandparent did?????

Kudos

a reply to: Metallicus

I look at things thing this way: this is a lost investment.

We have already spent the money to educate these kids, keep them healthy, and train them in American civics. The average cost of educating a graduating a student K through 12 in 2012 was $122,000 per student. [1] So, there are about 740,000 DACA students in the US [2]. Let's assume that only 25% of these students are seniors or in college. That is a loss of $22.6 TRILLION, assuming that the 2012 figure didn't go up. This figure doesn't include the loss of monies from students still in elementary or high school. This is a huge movement of resources out of our country.

Sure, they're here illegal because their parents couldn't be bothered to follow the law. But the money has already been spent on their education. If we keep them, help them to achieve citizenship legally, we could reap the benefits of that expenditure for 40-60 years.



1. ed100.org...

2.www.uscis.gov... edata_fy2016_qtr3.pdf

a reply to: Metallicus

The MSM is falling over themselves to tug at the heartstrings with their stories of people in this country illegally.

Feeling bad they are exploited by Mega Corp, once they arrive.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No, you pay the actual Federal, State, SUI and other taxes regardless. It's much worse to get caught evading taxes than to have someone potentially illegal on the books. You don't mess with the IRS.

Illegals aren't kept 'on the books'.

Large farm and livestock companies exploit them, both the IRS andthe INS look the other way.

Don't watch this to the end...

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
...
Now imagine someone coming in and taking all your stuff you worked so hard for and then deporting you out of the country all because you had no say in where you were going as a kid.

That would suck wouldn't it? Imagine if the government came to your house today and started seizing your property and telling you you couldn't live there anymore. How would you feel?

Those "illegals" are still people you know, that's why you should feel sorry for them, because their entire lives are going to be upended and destroyed over no fault of their own.
...

Nope... They "didn't work hard to get what the Obama government has been giving them... They are getting special treatment that legal residents and American citizens do not get...

Heck, btw all criminals, even murderers are people... i guess we better treat them all better than "we treat law abiding citizens, and legal residents..."

Illegal immigration causes a lot of crimes to occur in countries like the U.S. As an example there is the Mexican lady that the left-wing radical media was trying to claim "she is a good person with a family". Except that that same lady had committed fraud, and stole the social security of some elderly lady...

70% of illegal aliens have committed some sort of crime.

BTW, the adult children that were born in the U.S., but have parents who came illegally are not being deported... DACA was simply a program that would benefit people who came to the U.S. illegally as children. There are a lot more legal residents, and U.S. citizens who worked as hard, or harder than these "dreamers" yet they don't get the special treatment the "dreamers" are getting...

For democrats, and RINOs in power this is nothing but another attempt at getting more voters who came to the United States illegally.

I preface this by revealing that I am more on the Nationalist side of the ledger. This has been a calculated globalist attempt to try to collapse our nation and institute a new governing body from the get go.

I just don't see how it is fiscally possible to continue to provide the entitlements we do to illegals at the rate they were coming in under Obama, and not be reduced to financial ruin as a nation. Free lawyers, education, healthcare, welfare, food stamps, etc.

It was a black hole on an already overtaxed government purse. A heavy burden. At some point, when those living mostly tax free off of the teat of the government outnumber those who pay in, the country collapses.

That these people are also lobbying to be given a vote in our elections is equally as threatening to our sovereignty ...What would happen if we went into Mexico, Honduras, or Syria and tried to pull the same thing?

At some point, for the preservation the country that I love, we have to say enough is enough! We are burdened enough already ...I look at the amount taken out of my paycheck each year that has gone toward all of this; and then witness the complete disrespect tossed back at we the taxpayer by those benefiting from my sweat and labor; and then I see a daily spitting on the very American culture they are taking advantage of; and then I see one of my best friends beaten and raped by an illegal, the perpetrator be given a damned slap on the wrist and deported, and he being right back in this country a month later; and I cannot in turn find the f to give about them being deported. I'm sorry, but that is where I'm at anymore. Something has to change.

Respect is a two way street.

a reply to: Metallicus

So you weren't born in America with the privilege of immediate citizenship status?

Your argument is poetic and what not, but you seem to miss the point. Why should you feel bad? Because you had to do nothing for your status, and there are people that arguably could do nothing to avoid being brought here ileagally. Now you tell me, who has it worse off between you and them, and what exactly is different about them other than you were born here and they were forcibly brought here?

The primary argument is you should care because there is no difference, but you live an American dream of consumerism while they live in fear and poverty because of nothing more than a label.

It seems to me you don't care because it's not you being deported, so why should you. A stance rooted in utter selfishness.

originally posted by: intrptr
Illegals aren't kept 'on the books'.

Large farm and livestock companies exploit them, both the IRS andthe INS look the other way.

If you're going to interject yourself into a conversation at least follow along with what we were discussing and this was not it. We were discussing people with paperwork that appears legit that may or may not be and whether or not I had them on the books and how that impacts taxes.