Targeting DACA Kids is Misguided...

a reply to: theantediluvian

I am under informed...I could have a conversation from what you stated...but dont we need to control further incursions rather than blatantly opening our doors continually?

You cant have a society safe for all without agreed upon premises agreed to by all...can we?

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers
a reply to: intrepid

And what would you suggest they do in this instance? Let one break the law while expecting another to keep it?

@ Burd too.

THEY didn't break the law. They were incapable of that.

No they didnt but their Parents should be responsible should they not?

originally posted by: PeterSellers

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers
a reply to: intrepid

And what would you suggest they do in this instance? Let one break the law while expecting another to keep it?

@ Burd too.

THEY didn't break the law. They were incapable of that.

No they didnt but their Parents should be responsible should they not?

Fine. Deport them then.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: burdman30ott6


So kids on their own should have left the country or turned themselves in at 12 years old to ICE and volunteer to be deported...

That’s the logic of your statements

...sigh

No, that's not the logic of my statements. First and foremost we need to recognize that this is effectively a cat and mouse game. "They're children" OK, and? This isn't pertinent to the overall issue of the US having legal requirements that must be met for someone to remain in the nation legally. It's really quite simple to resolve... we should return to an era we never should have left in which hospitals, schools, local police, welfare offices, etc CHECK CITIZENSHIP STATUS FIRST and report anyone who lacks citizenship immediately to INS. If we'd not stopped doing that, if we'd disallowed this sanctuary city horsecrap, and if we'd kept common sense first line defense policies in place from day 1, we wouldn't be in this stupid "but this is the first little Jose has heard of him being here illegally" situation. We didn't do that, though... we had politicians pandering to both the illegals and the businesses who hired them under the table and we had policies which made it more attractive to be here illegally with your kids than the penalties offset.

That said, we're here now and it's time for the law to be enforced. Exits are on the south side of the property, waiting to be used to their fullest potential.

a reply to: intrepid

And their children with them that are not US citizens. That is the law.

Illegal is illegal---

I too am a "Dreamer"--- I dream that one day the laws will be enforced as written without "feelings" being involved.

One of the primary reasons "Lady Justice" is depicted as being blindfolded--- just the facts (laws) without emotional baggage.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers
a reply to: intrepid

And what would you suggest they do in this instance? Let one break the law while expecting another to keep it?

@ Burd too.

THEY didn't break the law. They were incapable of that.

No they didnt but their Parents should be responsible should they not?

Fine. Deport them then.

Plenty of room on the exiting buses for all family members...

originally posted by: Mike.Ockizard
a reply to: whyamIhere

Obama put this football in play. I compete against immigrants in IT where they work for 20-30% less. My kids have to pay for college while my taxes support illegal aliens who decided to come here illegally

Are you competing against DACA registrants or are you competing against visa holders? Because if you've been following the immigration policy statements from the administration, they're actually trying to alter immigration policy to provide more competition in white collar jobs by shifting the composition of legal immigrants and visa holders.

Are you claiming that your tax dollars are paying college tuition for "dreamers" that your children are ineligible for? These kids aren't eligible for federal aid. It's possible that they are getting some sort of subsidy at the state level but as I noted earlier in the thread, in most cases, they're actually facing a situation where they'd being denied in-state tuition rates (32/50) — so not only are they not getting federal aid, they're being forced to pay more in tuition in many cases.

Everyone talking about "feelings". Probably because they have none from their front door out. It;s not about feelings, it's about logic.

a reply to: intrepid

OK, so what is the logic in allowing them to remain, illegally, in the United States?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers
a reply to: intrepid

And what would you suggest they do in this instance? Let one break the law while expecting another to keep it?

@ Burd too.

THEY didn't break the law. They were incapable of that.

No they didnt but their Parents should be responsible should they not?

Fine. Deport them then.

Plenty of room on the exiting buses for all family members...

We rarely disagree.

I am a law and order guy.

Maybe it's my personal experience that makes me fight for these kids.

I think we could all get behind deporting criminal illegal's.

After we get rid of the million or so criminal illegal's.

We can maybe find a solution or at least some common ground.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: intrepid

OK, so what is the logic in allowing them to remain, illegally, in the United States?

They didn't come here, they were brought. They were raised here. They work here. They contribute here. It's all they know.

a reply to: intrepid

So by that logic, if you have folks with children squatting on your land, they shouldn't be removed because those kids are growing up there, whether their parents are on the land legally or not?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

You’re entitled to your opinion…


I have great reservations about illegal immigration because I’ve seen communities effected by this negatively, and certainly any country is entitled to enforce their laws

However, there are always two sides to every story and the negative results of getting rid of DACA far outweigh any positive result from expelling a massive amount of these virtual Americans.


You’re talking about nearly 1 million young people who through no fault of their own are caught in limbo.


To expel all these people would be impractical, and economically and socially unwise.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Invalid argument unless all of the US your land. Remember...logic. Fantasy can stay in your house.

a reply to: intrepid

Sorry, when a US Citizen does something illegal their kids would be in foster care and wards of the state. Here, when they do something illegal, there children are 'protected' and get things my kids would not since they are "Dreamers" as they call them. Explain this...

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Invalid argument unless all of the US your land. Remember...logic. Fantasy can stay in your house.

No, perfectly valid argument if you consider the same laws which grant Americans the right of land ownership and all of the benefits that go along with it are founded on the same principles as the laws granting our elected representatives control over immigration laws and enforcement. The law is the law is the law. If it is wrong to enforce immigration laws due to ages, then it would be logical that it is also wrong to enforce trespass laws due to ages.

Bottom line here, President Trump fulfilled a campaign promise, stopped kicking the can down the road, and is forcing Congress to finally answer the long asked question: should the country alter longstanding immigration policy and law to provide an expedited legal path to citizenship for minors presently in the country illegally? Until that question is fully answered, we must enforce the laws as presently on the books, and that entails deporting anyone, minors included, found to be illegally within the United States' borders.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Rules...to quote Wick 2
With out them we live among the animals

a reply to: theantediluvian

You are correct that many times they are charged out of state rates. However. the majority of states have poassed Dream Acts statewide to combat this. I would say though a small price to pay to go to school when your family is here illegally.

Also, they cannot take out Federal Students Loans but there are many scholarships and other ways that they can. Many states also use funds for sending them to school.

So, in the end, there is the ability for monies to go to someone illegally.

I just want equality for doing illegal things and children should not be protected based on the 'ignorant parent' excuse. As much as it would hurt to say DACA is over it should be.

Now, if that person wants to be here so badly they will use the legal channels. This is why I do back a Dream Act to get these kids where they should be by earning it not being protected by DACA.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: PeterSellers
a reply to: intrepid

And what would you suggest they do in this instance? Let one break the law while expecting another to keep it?

@ Burd too.

THEY didn't break the law. They were incapable of that.

No they didnt but their Parents should be responsible should they not?

Fine. Deport them then.

Plenty of room on the exiting buses for all family members...

We rarely disagree.

I am a law and order guy.

Maybe it's my personal experience that makes me fight for these kids.

I think we could all get behind deporting criminal illegal's.

After we get rid of the million or so criminal illegal's.

We can maybe find a solution or at least some common ground.

I think the deport them all crowd, has no experience around immigrants, or those with a green card. They have no idea of the complexity or the expense of becoming a US citizen. Then they forget the constitution, some of these dreamers have children born here in the USA, and some of these idiots want to deport the parents, how does that not violate the rights of their American citizen child. For many of these folks the constitution is only good when it works in their favor.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Invalid argument unless all of the US your land. Remember...logic. Fantasy can stay in your house.

No, perfectly valid argument if you consider the same laws which grant Americans the right of land ownership and all of the benefits that go along with it are founded on the same principles as the laws granting our elected representatives control over immigration laws and enforcement. The law is the law is the law. If it is wrong to enforce immigration laws due to ages, then it would be logical that it is also wrong to enforce trespass laws due to ages.

Bottom line here, President Trump fulfilled a campaign promise, stopped kicking the can down the road, and is forcing Congress to finally answer the long asked question: should the country alter longstanding immigration policy and law to provide an expedited legal path to citizenship for minors presently in the country illegally? Until that question is fully answered, we must enforce the laws as presently on the books, and that entails deporting anyone, minors included, found to be illegally within the United States' borders.

Paul Ryan addressed it, Mitch McConnell ignored it, how does congress pass a law with only one house of lawmakers?