Im confused by the Lefts Beliefs

a reply to: Xianb

This is one of the best threads I have read this year. Why? Because of the very well presented accounts of double standards and hypocrisy by the left , that have frankly left me confused and frustrated for several years now.

I have not read the comments or explanations from resident ATS lefties yet, but I'd guess that not one has admitted the double standards or hypocrisy from their cult yet. Just guessing.

Great thread. I'm afraid the zombies may never wake up tho. I have no idea what it would take to accomplish such a goal.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Your quote cited "LEFT" 649 times (give or take a couple hundred, lol), while the OP stated it 21 times. Methinks youre being very dramatic while missing the point entirely. This is typical, albiet stereotypical lefty behavior.

a reply to: Xianb

Hey can someone define clearly what is left and right. im perpetually confused about the two

a reply to: Xianb

Wow what generalisation. I'm assuming when you say the LEFT you mean people with extreme, disjointed, illinformed and therefore somewhat hypocritical views?

I don't find posts like this very progressive other than to highlight the tug of war that is going on between people who declare themselves LEFT or RIGHT.

I never used to declare myself as either but in recent political landscapes I would describe myself of leftism beliefs. However both terms have became so skewed I am back to not labelling myself again.

I agree with some of the points you're trying to make. That doesn't mean I'm right wing. What it means is I see both sides of the argument. I try to remain objective, and look at things from neither a left or right viewpoint.

The world is definitely polarising. It's really time for us to stop the hysteria and meet in the middle.

Even if someone seems to have opposing (and what you deem as) incorrect views on something, their reasoning can be understood.

Life is about understanding each other not directing hate.

And just for the record, your comment about the left hating tax cuts for the rich but wanting everything for 'free'..I disagree with this. Tax breaks for the rich is a symptom of capitalism which encourages greed power and unethical behaviour. Wanting everything for free however isn't what I argue. In the UK we have a 'free' healthcare system - the NHS. But it isn't actually free as we do all contribute by paying taxes. The problem is it is hugely underfunded and almost at breaking point, as with education, policing etc. These services would be immensely improved if the Tories ( our right wing government of the last 7 years) stopped giving tax cuts of billions to the rich. Prior to that we had a so called left wing party (new labour) who actually had right wing ideologies at their core (capitalistic desires, illegal invasion of Iraq etc).

What we need now is a more centralist, balanced approach to governance. I like how Trump calls out the media and speaks to the people directly. I don't think he is the evil idiot many make him out to be. However I do disagree with some of the things he says. But his anti establishment is what we need.

In the UK we have Corbyn who is also anti establishment and also tries to speak to the people directly. He wants transparency of governance and fairness in society. Close the gap between poor and rich as its very very possible.

We just have to stop shouting about left and right and labelling this and that.

I'm pretty sure that ultimately, we all want the same thing for this world.

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
a reply to: Xianb

The world as seen with your eyes,your type fall prey to the media,all this hype about Russia ,rioting,when you view things in your own perspective,things like reality are confusing,your the type that probably think everyone in Calif drive drop tops,and sit by the pool

What the OP is doing was offering a balance to the topic obviously but yet you blame with the same clap trap. www.abovetopsecret.com...
What's with the tangents? Again, another comment that doesn't even make sense. Want to counter that comment, especially the first one? Your type is mad and blaming it on liberals that you have to retired in a cheaper place. Take your own advice instead of blaming others.

what is wrong with earning your own keep,just because you are lazy and lack self esteem,not everyone is a loser

a reply to: Justoneman

How has he done the right thing in any of this?

It took him DAYS to be realistic about what did and did not happen in Charlottesville, and the reason for that is that he fostered the situation in which we find ourselves today, which is that for some reason, there is a group of people in your country who not only hold racist, fascist views (which is old news), but are now prepared to publicly admit as much, march on that basis, and enact violence up to and including murder, in support of those views.

Those things are directly related, cannot be dissected away from, the fact that your President made it his business to tell BLATANT LIES about immigration, how much of a problem it actually is, who is doing it the most, how they are doing it, and use peoples anger about the things he said, to drive his campaign forward. No one would even know who the hell Richard Spencer, or any of his mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, cousin loving followers are, if it were not for Trump. David Duke would be rapidly spiraling down the tube which leads to obscurity, and the far right would be dwindling away, starving to death in their own filth as they deserve to, if not for Trumps inability to be righteous and choosy about who his friends and supporters are, like a good man should be.

Trump is exactly as bad as I say he is, and I know that because I have watched his actions. When his actions match your perception of the man, I will tell you. Until then, cram your rose tinted glasses sir. They are blinding you to the reality before you.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: liejunkie01

Maybe this has been pre planned by the TPTB.

Supposedly there is a motto "Order out of chaos."

What if that their intention is to have both Trump and SJWs stir up chaos in order to have people accept more security and losses of freedom.

Bingo!

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Justoneman

How has he done the right thing in any of this?

It took him DAYS to be realistic about what did and did not happen in Charlottesville, and the reason for that is that he fostered the situation in which we find ourselves today, which is that for some reason, there is a group of people in your country who not only hold racist, fascist views (which is old news), but are now prepared to publicly admit as much, march on that basis, and enact violence up to and including murder, in support of those views.

Those things are directly related, cannot be dissected away from, the fact that your President made it his business to tell BLATANT LIES about immigration, how much of a problem it actually is, who is doing it the most, how they are doing it, and use peoples anger about the things he said, to drive his campaign forward. No one would even know who the hell Richard Spencer, or any of his mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, cousin loving followers are, if it were not for Trump. David Duke would be rapidly spiraling down the tube which leads to obscurity, and the far right would be dwindling away, starving to death in their own filth as they deserve to, if not for Trumps inability to be righteous and choosy about who his friends and supporters are, like a good man should be.

Trump is exactly as bad as I say he is, and I know that because I have watched his actions. When his actions match your perception of the man, I will tell you. Until then, cram your rose tinted glasses sir. They are blinding you to the reality before you.

Stop listening to the left's dog whistle and discern for yourself.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Justoneman

How has he done the right thing in any of this?

It took him DAYS to be realistic about what did and did not happen in Charlottesville, and the reason for that is that he fostered the situation in which we find ourselves today, which is that for some reason, there is a group of people in your country who not only hold racist, fascist views (which is old news), but are now prepared to publicly admit as much, march on that basis, and enact violence up to and including murder, in support of those views.

Those things are directly related, cannot be dissected away from, the fact that your President made it his business to tell BLATANT LIES about immigration, how much of a problem it actually is, who is doing it the most, how they are doing it, and use peoples anger about the things he said, to drive his campaign forward. No one would even know who the hell Richard Spencer, or any of his mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, cousin loving followers are, if it were not for Trump. David Duke would be rapidly spiraling down the tube which leads to obscurity, and the far right would be dwindling away, starving to death in their own filth as they deserve to, if not for Trumps inability to be righteous and choosy about who his friends and supporters are, like a good man should be.

Trump is exactly as bad as I say he is, and I know that because I have watched his actions. When his actions match your perception of the man, I will tell you. Until then, cram your rose tinted glasses sir. They are blinding you to the reality before you.

True Brit, you are either propagandizing this board with lies or are totally misinformed. I have heard the entire 13 min conversation and 100% disagree with the haters who try to pass that mess off you are passing along.

a reply to: Justoneman

The entire thirteen minute conversation?

I have heard every recorded word that bloviating crap sack has said in the last two and a bit years, and nothing he has said or done in that time, has given the slightest indication that my estimations of the man, his ethics, or his methods, are anything less than pin point, laser accurate.

ive tried as a left-leaning person to answer some of your queries. i am not an expert in any of these fields so please call out any mistakes i have made.

The LEFT loves Muslims but is offended by the word "God".
I’d say that the left “loves muslims” because they don’t wish to criticize people's beliefs. The word “God” may seem offensive because in the context it may be used to justify discrimination.


The LEFT says Trump has no Empathy even while donating 1million from his own Bank Account to Harvey Victims.
Don’t get me wrong, Trumps donation is generous and will no doubt go to help vulnerable people, but in an interview he said:
“We want to do it better than ever before. We want to be looked at in five years, in ten years from now as this is the way to do it. This was of epic proportion. Nobody's ever seen anything like this.”
He made the funding and the relief all about himself and how much better he is than everyone else and hurricane harvey more disastrous than any other disaster in the US’s history. This seems, to me at least, to be highly unempathetic. He makes no sort of mention to all the people who were affected by the hurricane. The only time he says anything close in this interview is while he is congratulating the coast guard for “the job they’ve done, the lives they’ve saved. We're very proud of you.”. Even then he uses those lives as proof of how well he, as a president, has done.

The meeting where i got the quotes from:
youtu.be...


The Left believes in Abortion but hates the 2nd Amendment.
I don’t see what the 2nd amendment has to do with abortion but i shall try and explain to the best of my ability what i think you’re referring to. The left supports abortion because it’s a basic human right. A woman should have complete control over her body. Its her body and her choice.

The Left says your Racist just for being White.
Everyone has biases that they can’t control. These are implemented from birth and tend to prefer people who look the same as us. This is what many people mean when they say “you’re racist because you’re white”. It’s a subconscious bias that everyone has and what is important is trying to ignore this bias and to use privilege in whatever form it comes in to battle injustice.

The LEFT hates tax cuts for the Rich but wants everything Free. Free Healthcare, Free Education etc.
Free healthcare and free education ensures everyone has an equal chance at life. The US is meant to be the land of opportunity and freedom where anyone, if they work hard enough, can make it big. All that tax cuts for the rich do is make the rich people richer and the poor people poorer. This divide has no place in a developed country especially one that takes so much pride in equal opportunity.


The Left calls the KKK, Nazis, and Neo Nazis the far right yet have forgotten these groups were founded by them.
The sentiments that the KKK and Nazis hold are far right. They’re based on discrimination and are despicable organisations. I am not an expert in the history of such groups but they are awful and all the lives lost at the hands of their members in their names are testament to that.


How can the Left support the LGBTQ community but at the same time support Communism,Marxism, Socialism etc., those people are usually the 1st to be killed in those societies.
The thing with communism and its subgroups is that it’s not truly represented in history. Dictators such as Stalin may have flown the communist flag but those societies were not representative of the beliefs that make up these political standings. These beliefs are based in equality first and foremost. There is no contradiction to be found in supporting the LGBTQ+ community and Communism, Marxism, Socialism and the like.

What propaganda?

For instance, we see 3rd wave feminists taking up for Sharia Law. Feminism and Sharia law. How does that work? There are real world examples of what's in the OP out there all the time. Just because you and a few other posters disagree, doesn't mean the OP is wrong.

Every person has the right to practice their own religious beliefs...
our constitution and laws protects their freedom to do this.
if someone wishes to enter a covenant marriage, follow sharia law, or heck walk around in long sleeve in 100 degree weather because it's what they believe God wishes for them, they are free to chose to do this. As long as it's something that they themselves chose and they are free to opt out and resort to the civil laws if they wish.
our constitution and our laws protects the people so that they can do this in just about every aspect, what it doesn't allow is for people to force others to follow what they belief to be "God's laws". we only have to follow the civil laws... and even in those the religious groups (mainly christian) can get out of following those through exemptions.

every women should have the freedom to obey their "God" in however way they feel he wishes.... as long as they are not harming others. if that means covering herself, that's fine by me, as long as it isn't being forced on her!!! and it's not like some of the christian groups and the men within them aren't trying to con women into accepted things that are rubbing against the grain of what those women believe God wishes for them.

to be honest, I see more of a threat of a christian version of sharia law coming into being in the US than I do the islamic version of it. and, I have a feeling that if any version did happen to come into existence, it would have been the christian groups that weakened the separation of church and state, and thus the protection of religious freedoms..

if not a choice between christian or islamic laws, it's a choice between the freedom to believe and practice our faith the way we believe is proper or having that choice taken from us and being told what to believe and what to practice!!!

feminist are women, american feminist are women who remember all too well what it was like when the laws of the land overly resembled the christian laws... it wasn't that great for them!!! we've grown enough to be able to decide for ourselves what is appropriate for us, to chose what type of God we believe in and what this god wishes for us. we don't need men speaking to us telling us god's words. and, as far as the muslim immigrants go, if they are allowed to be free to chose, by the second or third generation, those women will be just as confident and able.

if you believe in freedom, you have to give them the freedom to chose for themselves!!!

See if the OP can follow this logic: recently, an asshat cop illegally arrested a nurse for refusing to draw blood from an unconscious patient. Shall we use that incident and the litany of actions of other misguided LEOs to define LEO's? So all LEO's endorse the actions of these miscreants? They all subscribe to their dumb-ass beliefs? That is what you are doing when you label 'The Left'. In fact, there is no such thing. No membership. No annual convention. No logo. No president. It's made-up by small minded doinks that seek to disparage people that disagree with their thinking.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The hypocrisy runs deep. I don't even think the left knows what it believes anymore. Something something socialism, something something hatred, blah blah blah.

Maybe because the "left" in the US is a coalition of Americans (from the right, center and left) that want nothing to do with the far-right GOP party?

The left is no coalition, they hate and froth at anything they are told too...almost like an invisible God is whispering sweet nothings to them.

Yes yes..the left...all of them it seems, are a bunch of fuming angry commies and anarchists....but hey, the alternative is being a nazi, amirite?
everything is black and white, everything is extreme. a very tiny world you live in. Keep letting the programming program you.

a reply to: Xianb

The left doesn't use caps lock when it's not necessary but now we're splitting hairs.

Some in the right (see, no caps lock needed) seem to think that mashing their heads against a keyboard can conjure a coherent argument.

Vote for who you believe in, but please do not stoop to a level where this video can exemplify your thoughts.

a reply to: jtma508

Your last sentence is also a generalisation.

The left is predominantly made up of people who are of the belief that since money can be gained with no effort on the part of a few, and despite massive effort, denied to the many, that access to the basics must not be a matter of whether a person can pay for them or not, but instead a matter of whether they need them or not. It is also predominantly made up of those who believe that the people ought to be the measure of a nation, and the driving force behind policy both internal and external, and that the people ought to have a greater say in how they are policed, what tools may and may not be used to control them, what is and is not considered legal, and must have greater oversight over matters of law, over matters of security, than either the executive branch, or the people running the security services. They also believe that the corporate world should have no power or representation in government, that only the working people, the employees, and never the employers, should have the slightest say in anything, from the law on pay, conditions and contracts between employer and employee.

They also believe, in the main, that the MIC must be dismantled and set afire, its key players arrested for war crimes, any affiliates in government positions included, and any attempt to trade arms from a purely capitalistic point of view, rather than for the common defence of a given nation, or for the defence of the individual from the state, should be met also with arrest, incarceration for the rest of the natural life of the guilty party, as well as the liquidation of their assets to pay for damages caused to nations and individuals alike, by the sale of those arms.

The left believes in liberty and freedom, and to that end desires that the only people who have the slightest say in deciding what is right and wrong, are those whose only loyalty is to the people, not to the dollar, because those who have a weakness for greater financial assets, have a tendency to be weak enough to want to assemble for themselves greater power than any one individual ought to have.

This is, by the way, why the DNC are not lefties, because they believe in money and the love of it, where as genuine lefties find such thinking beneath them, and toxic to proper governance.

a reply to: TrueBrit

They also believe that the corporate world should have no power or representation in government, that only the working people, the employees, and never the employers, should have the slightest say in anything, from the law on pay, conditions and contracts between employer and employee.

To my understanding governments should be for the people by the people, not for the people by the right people ( see what I did there?)

and any attempt to trade arms from a purely capitalistic point of view, rather than for the common defence of a given nation, or for the defence of the individual from the state, should be met also with arrest, incarceration for the rest of the natural life of the guilty party, as well as the liquidation of their assets to pay for damages caused to nations and individuals alike, by the sale of those arms.

I think I know what you are referring to and here's a singalong we can all enjoy! and a one and a two and a three...

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

That Ollie North, Iran/Contra issue is precisely what I am talking about, that and a whole heap of continuing incidents of pretty much the same damned thing, that are still happening today, are happening without the approval of the people, and are causing the very terror threats which have been used to excuse the erosion of liberties by successive administrations, regardless of party affiliation.

Also, these things have been done to please the employer class, the money hungry few, not the many. Government must be for the many, by the many, even if it harms the upper echelons, and sometimes, specifically because it will prevent the upper echelons having the sort of freedom they desire. Regular people want a home, food, heat, light, data access and the expectation that they will be paid enough to save something after monthly expenditures. This is reasonable. The upper echelons, the movers and shakers, want to have power over those whose money they absorb, over those whom they underpay to do their bidding, want to dictate policy so that they always remain on top, and never have to work hard to do it. They want to trade arms with whomever, for whatever reason, and get away with it. They want to make money from war, they want to make money from tax avoidance and evasion, from overpricing medicines that sick people need, far more than those who made the drugs need paying for making them, and they do these things, all of them and more, because they want their bottom line to be as large and disconnected from the cost of producing what they produce, as possible. Why?

Because this cycle of ripping people of, from the people to their elected government, then purchasing favour in said government, happens to be a fool proof and lazy method of ensuring continuing growth in wealth. It is toxic, cancerous, and must end for the good of any nation afflicted with it.

a reply to: Xianb

That left are a bunch of mental case. They only react based on emotions and manipulations. Logic means nothing to them. If it helps one person but hurts a thousand, they don't care they will do whatever for that one person as long as they agree with them.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

This is not a counter argument though.

There is no logical reason to counter argument a thread that is a Gish Gallop list of strawmen.