The North Korean debacle is a sham slam joke

originally posted by: r0xor

originally posted by: charlyv
I would agree that the only way to do this smartly, and with the world behind us, is to take them out only if he directly tries to attack us or any of our allies. That is when we shoot them down and the hell and fury would begin. Let him sign his own death warrant.

I agree. He would have to be stark raving mad beyond our wildest dreams to start a war. I'm not putting it past him, we've seen from history that some people really aren't right in the brain but.. ugh.. it's hard to explain. That's one of his strong points. Nobody knows if he is crazy enough to do it or not so they get scared.

I'm just saying if I were the supreme ruler of a country with undisputed power, squads of women, access to the finest things in the country as well as *anything* I wanted; I wouldn't want to lose that. He has a legacy to uphold. There's no predicting it but my premonition is that it wont happen unless we start it.

Exactly all he is doing is being a child going look what I can do.

a reply to: Toolman18

NK holds all the cards, but one, and it is not the one everyone thinks. The Nuke card is off the table, in that, everyone has them, and would use them. Complete destruction of Seoul is NK's "Ace in the hole", but there is a strategy to beat that. Evacuation, massive full scale evacuation of SK civilians out of Seoul. Japan, the US, the Philippines, and Australia would aid SK in evacuating their civilians away from any metro areas, including evacuating out of country. Remove the threat to Seoul, minimize SK risk and civilian vulnerability, have Japan, Guam, the Philippines, Hawaii, Alaska, and Australia go full defensive ready. Odds are KJ attacks somewhere during the evacuation, because he will see the evacuation as a prep to bomb him. He attacks first, out of fear, and the US ends his military. China watches and referees.

This is only possible by baiting KJ into believing an attack upon him is imminent.

a reply to: r0xor


Obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but this ats thread from 2013 is interesting , Nth Korea doesnt exist

In it someone posted this video which also interesting...

originally posted by: Toolman18
If North Korea was attacked, they would destroy South Korea in an instant. They would send way too many weapons to be defended against. 20 to 40 million dead in a very short amount of time. That's why the US cannot attack North Korea.

If NK was attacked in a preemptive strike , there would be NO response. Wow , you need to stay off the Sci-Fi books and away from Fallout 4

a reply to: r0xor



There is no doubt that war is a reality here. If this was just a ordinary Tit For Tat. The US would not have opened to fronts against russia.

1. EUs eastern boarder With Russia.
2. North Korea. Which also boarder Russia and China.


The US are capable of fighting two fronts at the same time. US/NATO have built up a large military capability in Europe. And have a capable force in Asia to actually face NK. But it is not capable of facing of With China and Russia at the same time when it comes to attacking NK. So the US needs two fronts to put pressure on Russia.

"We all know that we could destroy that pitiful little country in an instant; they know it too."

I think that it's a mistake to make that assumption.
North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world. (The USA is 3rd). Yes, it may not be among the "most powerful" militaries in the world, but it isn't puny or pitiful.

While this video may contain a lot of propaganda, it does give a tiny glimpse into the world of the NK military:



It is breathtakingly beautiful and perhaps a bit frightening.

Also remember that the people of NK has little to no access to the outside world. They have been brainwashed to believe the Americans are the most evil force on the face of the earth. America is to NK what ISIS is to the West. (See Sinchon Museum of American War Atrocities for more info - example.)

And what we know about Kimmy, is that he is crazier than bat excrement. He is unpredictable which makes him dangerous. Some would argue that the same could be said about Trump.

And finally, while China appears to be neutral in the whole situation, there are indications that China would side with North Korea - if only as a show of force. And China is a whole other ball game - their active military personnel is twice as many as that of the US. Not to mention that economically China holds the world by the shorts.

I don't want to add to the doom and gloom porn, I just wanted to caution that seeing North Korea as "that pitiful little country" that will be squashed like a bug is a recipe for disaster. The USA wasn't ready for the previous Korean war. Hopefully they (and other players) won't make the same mistake twice.

See also: Last Week Tonight - North Korea (Contains Strong Language.)

Go to first page of post, then "click" on the flag, turning it solid green, and you will be giving a flag to the post!


a reply to: Teej1980

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Toolman18
If North Korea was attacked, they would destroy South Korea in an instant. They would send way too many weapons to be defended against. 20 to 40 million dead in a very short amount of time. That's why the US cannot attack North Korea.

If NK was attacked in a preemptive strike , there would be NO response. Wow , you need to stay off the Sci-Fi books and away from Fallout 4

IS it possible that your views have been generated by said video games ?

IF you really believe that the north can just be smashed without consequence, I would think it fair to say you are stark raving mad.

a reply to: Gemwolf

This is very good information for people to absorb. I didn't realize NK had the world's fourth largest army. They're also much more focused and fearful of their gov thus, more likely to do as they're told when, why and how without question.

if North Korea even had a nuclear warhead and could even send it over the pacific, it would get shot down.

The min they learn how to make a nuke small enough to fit on a missile they will start mass producing them
and then put them on 100s of missiles. It will never bee just one missile being fired in a real fight.

It could be thousands of nuke missiles if they wanted.

On a serious note, does the US (and its allies) have capable tech to 'take out' inbound ICBMs?

I always wondered this. I remember some of the anti-missile tech being lauded about many years ago (90's), and I am sure it has advanced many fold since.

So, let's assume a stupid move by BabyFace Kim -- how far would his ICBMs actually get? Can we (read: the sane world) destroy the missiles before they posed a real threat?

a reply to: r0xor

I agree all the way. Wether the trolls or the employees of security forces want to admit or not. All this crap about NK bombing people is lies, deciet, and propaganda to scare the xyz out the people in the western world or for reasons that will enable the US or israel to bomb NK because they are right on Russia and Chinas doorstep. Either isreal or the US want to see how just how Russia and Chine react in order to plan their next move.

It might also give them an opportunity to drop much bigger nukes on Syria and blow them back into the stone age, giving israel more "security" - boss cockey, in the mid east.

The US is playing Russian roulette with the lives of millions of people. but then again, perhaps killing one or two billion of us over the course of a few years is all part of the plan.

a reply to: Azureblue

perhaps killing one or two billion of us over the course of a few years is all part of the plan.

Do we cull a few or risk the decimation of all of us.

I believe they call it exponential growth

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Azureblue

perhaps killing one or two billion of us over the course of a few years is all part of the plan.

Do we cull a few or risk the decimation of all of us.

I believe they call it exponential growth

As long as noone starts shooting at eachother there is no risk. Doing drills and testing is not a act of war. Building nukes is not a act of war, if it was ww2 never ended.

Why did the US build nukes? And why wont they get ridd of them? The answer is obious, every american knows why they cant get ridd of their nukes. I bet they are glad they have them.

The Americans argue that nukes are a deterent from being attacked. Nk want this so that the US cant threaten With conventional militray intervention.

What ATS seams to do is spin this just like the media is spinning this to us. The US government needs us all on Board With their policy.

a reply to: spy66


Sure that's what they need and want to go to war.


I'm not sold on the medias version of events, I find the U.S in charge of the world nukes to be somewhat like relinquishing to the school yard bully.


Kimi has just as many rights to have an arsenal of nukes to anyone else anywhere in the world.


Interestingly enough there is a comparison to be made with with more guns are needed for the police And "loyal" citizens in America to deal with all the guns on the street in the hands of criminals.


You may not realise this but the plans to nuke korea have been put forward to the American people years ago and was met with condemnation, times have changed eh, and so has the education system...is there a correlation there ...?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Azureblue

perhaps killing one or two billion of us over the course of a few years is all part of the plan.

Do we cull a few or risk the decimation of all of us.

I believe they call it exponential growth

So would you be happy for yourself or your family to part of the culled or do you consider yourself and your family to be 'big enough' to exempted from culling and eligible for a ticket to the under ground?

a reply to: Azureblue


Apon understanding that we are rapidly outgrowing our sphere of goodness, I was a bit upset with myself having had children before I was able to understand the magnitude of where we are at right now, being at the 59th minute is not a good place to be.


Yeah and I'm out of that loop, I would posture a guess that I am # out of luck.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Oh, on the contrary, the wicked witch has nothing to do with it. It's all about the man behind the curtain pulling the levers marked "fire", "lightning" and "thunder". He's got them all buffaloed. They live in primal fear of his giant charade. And it is just that, a charade, a charade by a man-child in an inflatable sumo suit.

So who really saved the day in the Wizard of Oz? It wasn't Dorothy, or the Tin Man. The Wicked Witch was nothing more than a convenient distraction. No, who really saved the day in the Wizard of Oz was nothing more than a tiny little dog, a tiny little persnickety old dog who pulled back the curtain and exposed the fraud for what it truly was.

It is ironic you've picked the Wizard of Oz to use as an analogy (albeit somewhat incorrectly). There are, in fact, many parallels you can draw when comparing the motion picture the Wizard of Oz to a country like NK. Some examples would include...

1. The US (and others) are the Munchkins, living in fear of a fire breathing authority known as Oz, or Kim Jong Un as it were. Taught to be afraid by their information ministers, their brokers of doom porn, the main stream media.

2. The Munchkins have lived in fear, apparently for decades, of a fraud. They have developed their whole society and policies around living their peaceful little lives in the presence of a monster who will surely destroy them should they ever step out of line and/or anger him.

3. The North Korean people too are Munchkins, or at least they started out that way, but they soon turned into the Winke Guard and the flying monkeys, owing to their fear of the general, the Wicked Witch of the West.

What the World needs right now is a tiny little dog to run in and pull back the curtain and expose the illusion, to expose the fraud.

Where is Toto when you need him?

In the last Korean war , General McArthur was sure the Chinese would not become involved . When the Russians and the Chinese piled in behind the NoKos , the 21 countries of the UN battleforce were taken by surprise .
If Gen.McArthur and 21 country's intel can get it wrong , so can anyone on ats . Be under no illusions , if you start on NoKo you're starting on most of the Eurasian continent . And neither the Chinese or the Russians are easy , no way . And they are definitely allies , no question . You're talking about ww3 , where_ they win . They might even want this to happen ?

And
Where do think the NoKo got all that kit in the first place ? SMH - learn some history

a reply to: Gemwolf

Just to add some counterbalance to your assessment...

While the NK's may have the 4th largest army in the world, what they lack is the strategic wherewithal to employ it effectively. And this is key. A quick look at a Google satellite map of NK exemplifies this. This is not to say they military brass of NK are completely clueless either, but they lack the infrastructure for a sustained fight. I'll cite some examples in a moment, but first we should probably step back in history and look at the Korean War.

Remember, the Korean War conflict was not really about Korea at it's heart, but rather it was about the spread of Communism. Korea just happened to be the place. The Korean War was a war of ideology, so while it took place in Korea it wasn't really about Korea proper. Consequently, it really became a war by proxy between the "East" and the "West", not the north and south. It was a war between Communist China and western bloc USA. A much different environment exists today, and more importantly China has a LOT more to lose than they did in the early 1950's.

So, would a conflict in NK retrace the battles and ultimate stalemate of the Korean War? No, I don't believe it would. It would be far different. And, strategically, it is a far different landscape as well. Make no mistake though, a conflict with NK would be very tragic indeed, and no one should minimize it. We both agree on this point. The big loser though would most likely be South Korea.

Much like Communist China, South Korea is also far different today than it was in 1950-1953. This presents the biggest challenge of a conflict with NK, by far.

So how would a conflict go today? I believe what NK really wants to do is launch an EMP strike on the US. I think this is their real end-game. I don't think they really intend on actually nuking the US or one of it's allies. Such an attack would surely result in a retaliatory strike (or strikes)...which would in turn trigger a much larger conflict (this is where the instability of Jong Un is relevant).

From a military perspective a major conflict would likely go down like this...

1. The US and allied forces would quickly incapacitate NK's air capability. This would be done in the opening hours. Surgical strikes would be launched on targets already programmed in to the battle plan. This would include all airfields in southern NK, and moving steadily north. Once the airfields were destroyed any remaining airborne assets would be rendered harmless in short order. NK doesn't really have any heavy bombing capability, so no significant worries there. Note: NK does have formidable AAA and SAM capability, so this action would likely involve losses on our side as well, possibly heavy (survivable, but heavy).

2. NK does have heavy armor capability. However, the majority of this armor is well north of the DMZ along the east and west coasts of NK. NK is smart enough to realize an effective ground attack likely won't come from the south as this would be suicidal. But, where they fall short is the infrastructure to move this armor. So the next targets would be roads and bridges leading inland and south, cutting off NK's ability to move their armor and effectively trapping them in a cross-fire.

3. This is where it gets ugly. And this is where Un's instability gets painful. Strategically, NK would be hamstrung at this point. Now you've cornered a rabid cat. The DMZ is thick with NK artillery, and this artillery is heavily fortified. Cornered, NK would be left little choice but to lash out and rain terror down on Seoul with rockets and artillery. I believe NK would employ chemical weapons here, likely in devastating quantities and with devastating effect.

4. Once WMD's had been used by NK all bets are off, and the nuclear option is very much on the table.

Note: China through all of this will have remained relatively unengaged (unless the US and allies start sending boots and armor north). China may provide some support, but nothing like the Korean War. This is mainly due to the potential negative impact on their economy (unlike the 1950's when there was nothing to lose and everything to gain).

5. God help us all. NK will be decimated militarily (at a strategic level, not necessarily at a tactical level). SK will have suffered staggering losses. We could hope that NK's leadership will all be dead by this point (Kim Jong Un in particular). And we can all hope and pray with all our hearts and minds that the militaries of the World, at this point, can all see the wisdom of...Restraint being the better part of valor. All humanity depends on it!!