There's an important social reason incomes aren't rising in America

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: toysforadults

We don't have capitalism. We have a form of pseudo feudalism mixed with socialism. Barely anyone owns anything anymore. 

Disregarding your misinterpretation, what is your ideal system of belief?

Give me your example of a perfect world.

So now its about a perfect world is it? And the interpretation was not a complaint about "capitalism" but about how its not really "capitalism".

What we have here is a collectivist leaning system that is kinda stuck halfway between gears.

Capitalism is a fine food to feed a baby country, but the country has now out-grown it's nutrient rich capitalist baby food and grown fat and ineffective.

Time to alter the nutritional intake for the sake of saving the patient.

originally posted by: thesaneone
When the average American spends roughly 1-2 hundred dollars a month on their cell phone service not including the few hundred dollars a year that people waste because i need the coolest model, it's not that surprising that your generation is broke.

I agree with this in part, it's kind of like to avocado toast thing right? But at the same time we pay more for things that have become a basic necessity. My parents were able to buy a house and live ok off their incomes...I now make more than my parents ever did and can barely afford rent and necessities. You need the internet and a cell phone to get by in this world, and utilities in the home have skyrocketed as well as food prices. I don't wear designer clothes and I definitely don't need (and don't purchase) the latest iPhone, but even with that and all the ways I try to be frugal, I still live paycheck to paycheck and am starting to lose my dream of every buying a home (living in california does NOT help).

This is a tragedy I always try to warn young people about, though they don’t listen.


I went through being an autoworker and witnessed the demise of those great jobs and then the IT field and witnessed them do it again.


It all started with Ronald Reagan in 1980. Because wages were steadily climbing--THAT HAD TO BE STOPPED.

Ronald Reagan got in and cut taxes on the rich considerably and raised taxes on the middle class!
Help destroy unions and ever since things have gone down, down and down.


The problem with the economy is simple: DEMAND is down. People aren’t buying anymore because they no longer trust the system. They are saving the meager cash they have.

Know that this is all by design, not an accident---WHO DO THEY GIVE THE MONEY TO, THE BANKS.

A conservative think tank dreamt this all up to keep wages and the middle class stagnant

They did that because they researched and found out that when there is a vibrant middle class people tend to want more, make progress and protest against the establisher order. They wanted to stop that SO THEY INNITIATED THE REAGAN PLAN

Now that they’ve got us down they’ll NEVER let us up again.

All their doing now is keeping us in political stagnation and turmoil so we never get off the ground and begin to develop again as we were doing from after WWII until the early 80’s with the advent of Reagan.


Young people if you want economic freedom you gave to become a doctor, certain kind of stock broker, certain kind of lawyer, IT network specialist, Research scientist, actor, athlete, ( tongue in cheek)conman, thief, or drug dealer.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

This is a think tank plan to keep the lid on…

This is NOT a conspiracy theory but established fact

No more middle class comfort in America

Lately, even Americans are dying earlier than past decades

Were going backwards.

a reply to: Willtell


Well if you go to the grocery store, one of the big ones and take a good look at most of what is offered.......its clear to see they don't give a **** about us, preparing us health wise to be clients of the pill pushing health industry ect.

a reply to: Willtell

Young people if you want economic freedom you gave to become a doctor, certain kind of stock broker, certain kind of lawyer, IT network specialist, Research scientist, actor, athlete, ( tongue in cheek)conman, thief, or drug dealer.

This is the sad truth but that's also why I am in a BSIT - Network Operations and Security program.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner


Problem with "capitalism" is that there are two may "Lamprey" in it milling around, sucking the life. Oh and the big capital boys understand the dangers of a strong well heeled middle class.

a reply to: SRPrime

Totally spot on post man thanks.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: toysforadults

There's a few reasons behind this. At it's core, the issue is that employee's aren't scarce enough to drive having a higher value.

As fewer and fewer jobs are needed, the only way we'll be able to make work competitive is with a basic income that convinces a large chunk of the population to not work.

I wouldn't have a problem with UBI if everyone got a check and if everyone was treated equally. The system We have now sucks because there are way to many people getting the shaft while another group is getting special benefits at the first groups expense.

originally posted by: Willtell
I went through being an autoworker and witnessed the demise of those great jobs and then the IT field and witnessed them do it again.

IT is still there, but it's not a field where you can study for a couple years and you're done. All tech fields in order to remain relevant require relearning everything, every couple years. Otherwise, you're in trouble as soon as whatever you work on goes out of favor.

One of the big problems with IT though, interestingly enough is that 90% of IT jobs companies have, have relatively low barriers to entry. If you're in one of those jobs, you're going to have a problem. It's only if you get one of the jobs that requires more certifications, and keep those certs up to date that you'll be stable.

All tech is like this. For programmers for example, take a look at this chart
www.tiobe.com...

If you want to remain competitive, you basically have to learn a new language every 3 years. It's not the hardest thing in the world to do, but it does require some effort.

The problem with the economy is simple: DEMAND is down. People aren’t buying anymore because they no longer trust the system. They are saving the meager cash they have.

Cash savings are at the lowest they've ever been. 68% of US households have less than $400 in savings. 82% are unable to service an unexpected $1000 car bill without borrowing money.

Young people if you want economic freedom you gave to become a doctor, certain kind of stock broker, certain kind of lawyer, IT network specialist, Research scientist, actor, athlete, ( tongue in cheek)conman, thief, or drug dealer.

There's more options than that. For example, digital artists make a lot of money and are in high demand. CS jobs are also well known for great salaries, but you have to actually know your stuff (in addition to having the degree). You also need to expect that you're going to need more than 4 years of college. Anything worthwhile is going to require at minimum 6 years, and probably more like 8.

originally posted by: jkm1864
I wouldn't have a problem with UBI if everyone got a check and if everyone was treated equally. The system We have now sucks because there are way to many people getting the shaft while another group is getting special benefits at the first groups expense.

The point of UBI is that it's universal. It's not means tested.

Of course, that also means that if it were ever implemented, you should expect your taxes to go up (slightly) and your salary to go down by at least the UBI amount.

One of the ways it's most often talked about being implemented, is that it's funded as a tax rebate. The government collects $x in taxes per month, it refunds (x-y)/population to each person.

originally posted by: toysforadults
This is the sad truth but that's also why I am in a BSIT - Network Operations and Security program.

Are you actually learning useful things in that though? I've looked up a bunch of those classes online at various universities and all they seem to teach are things like router configuration, firewall management, and so on. The basic stuff that anyone who uses a computer should already be fluent in (and if they're not, they're vastly underqualified to even be near a computer).

I see very few programs who actually teach the useful stuff like cryptography, advanced mathematics, penetration testing, and only a handful actually teach operating systems without which you're never going to actually understand things like a stack, queue, or how hardware and software actually interact with each other... and how to safeguard that.

a reply to: Aazadan

I am attending WGU here is a list of the certifications requirement's I need in order to get the degree:

• A+ (CompTIA); Cloud Essentials (CompTIA); Network+ (CompTIA); Security+ (CompTIA); Project+ (CompTIA); ITIL Foundation Certification (Axelos); Linux Essentials (LPI); Certified Internet Webmaster–Site Development Associate (CIW-SDA); Cisco Certified Network Associate (Cisco); Cisco Certified Network Associate – Security (Cisco); Cisco Certified Design Associate (Cisco)

My lab is 2 2811's, an ASA and a 3750 L3 capable switch. Oh don't let me forget Kali Linux. I also have to take a Python course which I like Python.

JUST FKN SAVE! seriously. Its the whole answer to jobs and security or whatever. Stop wasting money and putting nasty sht in your impulsive mouth. Lol

a reply to: Aazadan

Americans are saving (a little) more

money.cnn.com...



I didn't mention all jobs...
I'm from the Dos/Mac/novell/ Networking It Ibm/Hp Dell PC and networking world.

A good pc tech use to could make 50 60 grand, System Analyst /Systems engineer or A networking guy MCSE(A) Cisco 100- 150-200 grand

Not much anymore...

Though many of those jobs have been going to foreigners

I know about this I've seen and been in these fields and experienced what I'm talking about

I've seen it

Another deception that has been going on for a long time is what exactly is middle class.

Well, middle class is not a cops salary, or a iron worker, steel worker, carpenters, teacher at, 30 40, 50, 60 or even 70 thousand, that’s lower middle class

Middle class is 100, 150, to 250 thousand. Doctors, Lawyers, Actors, school Superintendents, Principles, Stock brokers, etc,


The average person who thinks their middle class is lower middle class, a big difference

The average American household income is LOWER Middle class at around fifty grand a year

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Globalization, open borders, h1b visas, and automation are the reason why wages are stagnant. Essentially, I like to call it International Socialism or global redistribution of wealth, similar concept to Marxism. It's the result of the One World Government agenda.

As though we don't have enough competition:

4 Million Migrants Legally Entered America’s Labor Market in 2016:

investmentwatchblog.com...
Of these people some 1.1 million were new (legal) immigrants, 2.3 million arrived with temporary work permits, and 500,000 were outsourcing visa workers (for example H-1B visas). This, of course, does not include the influx of illegal immigrants into the country

originally posted by: Willtell
A good pc tech use to could make 50 60 grand, System Analyst /Systems engineer or A networking guy MCSE(A) Cisco 100- 150-200 grand

Not much anymore...

The bar to entry has come down. Most techs are doing basic things these days like installing software, or switching out a keyboard, or letting software do their job for them. That's the way the world works, the bar to entry on stuff is always going down. If you want a good job, you have to go deeper than you do 20 years ago. You also have to be better because India and China have people who will happily come over here, and do your job for half the price. It's called being competitive, either offer more, or accept the reduced value.

Some good paying jobs still exist. I get 80/year to work 20 hours a week remotely, while attending class for my final year of school. My starting rate, while I worked full time in the summer was over 100k to start... as an intern, in one of the lowest cost of living areas in the US. Jobs still exist, but not everyone is going to get them.

originally posted by: Willtell
Well, middle class is not a cops salary, or a iron worker, steel worker, carpenters, teacher at, 30 40, 50, 60 or even 70 thousand, that’s lower middle class

Middle class is 100, 150, to 250 thousand. Doctors, Lawyers, Actors, school Superintendents, Principles, Stock brokers, etc,

Middle class is defined as 50% to 200% of the median wage, so using the national average, 25k to 100k. Plenty of people fall within that bracket who do the jobs you mention (most on the lower end of that range). The real issue is that the purchasing power of the middle class has fallen. I've done a bunch of threads on this, but minimum wage in 1955 had the purchasing power of $26/hour today, which would be right in the middle of middle class. And that was a starting wage, actual middle class had way more purchasing ability. Today, a full half of the population (and more when you make the distinction between individual and household income) have less purchasing power than what minimum wage should be buying them.