Nurse forcibly arrested for not allowing cop to draw blood of unconscious patient(Video)

a reply to: Blaine91555

The detective was just suspended from the draw blood program? WTH...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Disgusting and shameful isn't it.

And they have the nerve to stand there and say they want people to have faith in them and to trust them.

We see what our faith and trust has bought us.

I wonder if we will have a resolution on this case before we have on on the Justin Damon case.

I am not holding my breath on either case. The outcomes of the past have colored me skeptical.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: AMPTAH

If she did not make the officer aware of policy, he could have feigned ignorance.

Police officers only follow the rules that they are specifically trained to follow.

The problem here is that this officer never heard about these rules before.

This is not his fault. It's a fault of his police department.

When he arrives on scene, in any situation, he is not in a frame of mind to engage in debate, listen to excuses, get the run-a-around, hear about some new rules for the first time, have to decide if people are stalling him, putting him off, telling him things that aren't true, etc...he has no knowledge. He has one simple instruction "Go get that blood."

If it is important that he obey some special hospital rules, it's the responsibility of the police department to educate the officer before sending him out on the task.

Police officers are enforcers. They use force to execute the orders given to them by their superiors.

They are all action. No thinking.

Officers don't take orders from the citizens.

That's why the officer got frustrated when the nurse kept reading him the "rules."

This was stalling his action, requiring him to think.

But, that's not his job. It's not his job to think. He's an execution machine. And the dept sent him out unprepared to handle the situation.

So, now we all see his behavior, and blame him. Because it's obvious to us, who think, that the nurse is in the right.

But, the real person who is wrong here, is the superior who sent this officer out to get that blood, without training.

a reply to: AMPTAH

You're wrong on so many levels it's impossible to know where to start.

He was wrong, period. He shouldn't be on the job if he doesn't know department policy regarding lawfully acquiring purported evidence.

With repect to your ridiculous comment about what "they are not in the mood for upon scene arrival", this was not a duress situation that would have taxed any normal officers ability to reason....in other words it was not a stressful situation that required reaction. That is, until he unlawfully detained and cuffed a healthcare professional. You have 100% no idea wtf you're talking about.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: AMPTAH

If she did not make the officer aware of policy, he could have feigned ignorance.

Police officers only follow the rules that they are specifically trained to follow.

The problem here is that this officer never heard about these rules before.

This is not his fault. It's a fault of his police department.

When he arrives on scene, in any situation, he is not in a frame of mind to engage in debate, listen to excuses, get the run-a-around, hear about some new rules for the first time, have to decide if people are stalling him, putting him off, telling him things that aren't true, etc...he has no knowledge. He has one simple instruction "Go get that blood."

If it is important that he obey some special hospital rules, it's the responsibility of the police department to educate the officer before sending him out on the task.

Police officers are enforcers. They use force to execute the orders given to them by their superiors.

They are all action. No thinking.

Officers don't take orders from the citizens.

That's why the officer got frustrated when the nurse kept reading him the "rules."

This was stalling his action, requiring him to think.

But, that's not his job. It's not his job to think. He's an execution machine. And the dept sent him out unprepared to handle the situation.

So, now we all see his behavior, and blame him. Because it's obvious to us, who think, that the nurse is in the right.

But, the real person who is wrong here, is the superior who sent this officer out to get that blood, without training.

You are kidding right?

This "officer" is not a robot and has the ability to make rational decisions based on fact based input.

A more likely explanation is another jackass with an authority complex.... I will roll with that as it appears to be a trend but nice try on using a defense from the Nuremberg trials.

a reply to: AMPTAH
I don't believe for one minute that he was not aware of the protocol.

The protocol is not that different from hospital to hospital.

Even if this was the first time he had ever drawn blood, the first thing they teach you is about the protocol, because without it, any evidence you collect is likely never to see the light of a courtroom.

The easiest way to get evidence thrown out is to collect evidence and not follow protocol.

originally posted by: alphabetaone
a reply to: AMPTAH

You're wrong on so many levels it's impossible to know where to start.

He was wrong, period. He shouldn't be on the job if he doesn't know department policy regarding lawfully acquiring purported evidence.

Exactly how is he going to know this policy?

None of us are born with any knowledge in our heads.

How does a person even become aware that such a policy exists?

Do police officers spend their time in the library reading up all the rules and regulations that exist?

If the department doesn't "direct the officer" to the requisite knowledge, how is he expected to gain that knowledge?

If the dept doesn't "train" the officer, where is the officer going to get his training from?

When is he going to even get time to "train himself", when he's on the clock at work?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: AMPTAH
I don't believe for one minute that he was not aware of the protocol.

The protocol is not that different from hospital to hospital.

Even if this was the first time he had ever drawn blood, the first thing they teach you is about the protocol, because without it, any evidence you collect is likely never to see the light of a courtroom.

The easiest way to get evidence thrown out is to collect evidence and not follow protocol.

Nice. But we learn all of that from movies and TV shows. That doesn't mean this is the way things operate in reality, though.

There is no way that this officer could have known the protocol and still arrest the nurse.

His action tells us that he didn't know.

And he needs to hear it from his own police dept, not the hospital.

a reply to: AMPTAH

He was on the blood drawing team.

He was taught the protocol before they even taught him to put on a tourniquet.

Every facility has their own policy but it doesn't change that much from one facility to the other.

The problem here was not that he didn't know the protocol, he wanted to ignore the protocol, and the nurse would not permit it because she was the supervisor of the unit, and it would have meant her license if she did not intervene.

a reply to: AMPTAH
Wrong.

This my job.

I am on the Forensic team and have been collecting evidentiary evidence for years.

I have run across his type on occasion, but I have never had to deal with someone this pigheaded and out of control.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Sorry, ignorance is no excuse..at least that is what the judges tell us.
I don't think he was ignorant of the rules anyway..he figured he could go all Billy Badass to get his way, regardless.

a reply to: dreamingawake

I saw this viral story on the news here in Canada and was appalled. My heart goes out to nurse Alex Wubbels for the undue emotional distress she experienced simply for maintaining her integrity and upholding ethics. I respect nurses so much. Nurses already have so much on their plate to deal with in their jobs — especially all the day to day emotional baggage that comes with being a nurse.

The officer in question definitely needs to be reprimanded; go through some retraining; along with a psychological assessment.

This story reminded of another case a few years ago that happened in the States, where a cop pulled over a speeding ambulance on the way to a hospital carrying an elderly patient and ended up handcuffing and arresting the ambulance driver with the patient still in the back of the ambulance. I assume most police are cool in the States but, you guys sure do have some real characters in uniform.

On a side note:

As I read through some of the comments in this thread — I couldn't help but notice many rightfully calling for this officer's firing.

What I find interesting is: after all the documented cases of American police killing unarmed civilians caught on video; such as the killing of 12 year old Tamir Rice playing alone in the park; and most recently the killing of 15 year old Jordan Edwards leaving a house party; along with cases of unfair arrest — such as that 12 year old girl thrown to the ground by an officer and handcuffed at a pool party — the many comments calling for this officer's firing for mistreating and arresting a nurse doing her job, and not for those other cases discussed in the past on this site, had me a bit perplexed.

Sadly, based on what officers in the states have gotten away with in the past: I highly doubt he will be fired...

An update for what it's worth from the attention the story has been getting:
"SLC mayor, police chief apologize for officer who arrested nurse; criminal investigation to follow"

Hours after Salt Lake City’s mayor and police chief apologized for an officer handcuffing a hospital nurse who refused to take blood from an unconscious patient, Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill announced Friday he wanted a criminal investigation into the episode.

“On the face of the evidence, there is concern that is raised about this officer’s conduct,” Gill said in a Friday interview. “But the whole point of an investigation is to gather the information about this situation.”

Source

Officer has been placed on leave while the investigation is happening.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: AMPTAH

He was on the blood drawing team.

He was taught the protocol before they even taught him to put on a tourniquet.

No, he wasn't taught. In fact, in the TV clip, the police dept admitted that they needed to make some changes and update their training and protocols. Which basically means they know he wasn't trained properly, and it's their fault.

Here is the reality about such cases, stop making excuses for them when they do similar things in other communities, for that's where they typically honed their brutality and it never stops there.

originally posted by: Spider879
Here is the reality about such cases, stop making excuses when they do similar things in other communities, for that's where they typically honned their brutality and it never stops there.

The departments are now going to have to spend more money on PR especially with this and the cop caught on camera telling the lady in the car that shes safe cops only kill black people.

May just be cheaper to weed out the dickheads before they land them in the news.

originally posted by: dreamingawake

Source

Officer has been placed on leave while the investigation is happening.

Funny. That source says that the officer Payne was "instructed to arrest the nurse" by his superior!

In Payne’s report of the episode, he writes that Lt. James Tracy had ordered him to over the phone to arrest Wubbels if she refused to allow him to get a blood sample.

This is what I've been saying, but everybody wants to believe that Officer Payne is the bad guy here. He's following orders. That's what cops do. They aren't paid to think. Your boss says go arrest the nurse, and you do.

a reply to: AMPTAH

You are reading the TV clip wrong.

This is a common public statement they make every time someone screws up.

It doesn't mean he wasn't taught. It means that someone did not follow their training, so now they have to go back over the training and explain why when you don't follow your training, there are all these consequences that everyone else has to suffer because of it.

They may include in the update some fail safe measure like, you now have to call your supervisor before you enter any facility, and you may have to provide your unit with a contact number of the supervisor on duty at the facility, and they will surely have another form that will have to be filled out, with a additional signatures, that will have to be added to the paperwork.

The standard band-aid when someone screws up and the whole division feels the heat.

Nowhere did they say that this man was unfamiliar with the protocol or that he wasn't taught the protocol. They said they had to review their training and had to update their protocol.

Like I said. The standard band-aid.

Google "nurse arrested". The whole world is talking about this.

This cop is #ed and the nurse may very well be looking at a large payout too. Good.

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
Google "nurse arrested". The whole world is talking about this.

This cop is #ed and the nurse may very well be looking at a large payout too. Good.

Outrage is in and media will happily entertain us .

AS far as the cop goes, nothing will happen, the investigation will play out slowly, another story will engross the enraged masses and officer dip# will be quietly transferred to another department far away