It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Nurse forcibly arrested for not allowing cop to draw blood of unconscious patient(Video)
page: 38share:
a reply to: Xcathdra
I'm not going to get into a 30 page argument with you guys over stuff that's been argued for 30+ pages. I'm just stating my opinion that the regulations in this instance were BS period. He was not in anyway responsible for what the moron in that video did to him so there was NO reason, as far as I'm concerned, to ever even ask for another tox screen when I'm pretty sure it is standard procedure for one to be done when he was brought in for drug interactions with what they might have to give him, or for later use by the cops/insurance or whatever.
His system would be compromised by the burns, an extra stick could literally kill him if he's bad enough. Especially since it's been stated there was already blood available. If the cop didn't know there was blood already then he shouldn't be doing that job. He should have ASKED first thing. If he was too stupid to ask then that's on him. If they wouldn't give it to him, it doesn't matter because it is already there for later use. So no hurry. That cop and his LT were wrong period and you can spout this reg that reg all day and it won't change the fact the truck driver was a VICTIM, not a suspect and no new blood needed to be drawn at that point!
As for the 20 minute clip, I watched it and that moron went off on the nurse for something her superior said. He straight up said they had no way to get a warrant, he flat up said he was getting pissed, he dug his hole, now he can lie in it. This whole situation was BS plain and simple. No where did he say "DoT wants this blood, damn this chick for blocking us" or whatever. He wanted it for other cops. Why? Again -victim- not suspect, in a video taped attack by a moron who the cops literally chased into him!
Again this is from someone who loves most cops and appreciates what they do. But guys like this creep give you all a bad name. No one should be frightened of cops and more and more now a days people aren't scared they are terrified. Because of cops like this, that should be your issue with this scenario being ex leo, not nit picking s**t that means nothing in this case.
You should be horrified brother officers did this and be condemning them and after mentioning why they might want more blood i.e. the DoT regs etc, you all should have dropped it and focused on this cop and his LTs bad behaviors. Instead you just made yourselves look like you're cut from the same cloth as these morons by going on and on for 30 pages rehashing the same s**t over and over. You guys sound an awful lot like you're justifying/condoning what this cop did.
I've seen enough of your all posts in the past that I don't think that's true as I've agreed with more often than not. So please, please tell me why you are more concerned with those regs than what this cop actually tried to do to a victim and did to a nurse doing her job. Especially when waiting a little more and speaking to her supervisor who said he was on the way would have avoided all this.
I'm not going to get into a 30 page argument with you guys over stuff that's been argued for 30+ pages. I'm just stating my opinion that the regulations in this instance were BS period. He was not in anyway responsible for what the moron in that video did to him so there was NO reason, as far as I'm concerned, to ever even ask for another tox screen when I'm pretty sure it is standard procedure for one to be done when he was brought in for drug interactions with what they might have to give him, or for later use by the cops/insurance or whatever.
His system would be compromised by the burns, an extra stick could literally kill him if he's bad enough. Especially since it's been stated there was already blood available. If the cop didn't know there was blood already then he shouldn't be doing that job. He should have ASKED first thing. If he was too stupid to ask then that's on him. If they wouldn't give it to him, it doesn't matter because it is already there for later use. So no hurry. That cop and his LT were wrong period and you can spout this reg that reg all day and it won't change the fact the truck driver was a VICTIM, not a suspect and no new blood needed to be drawn at that point!
As for the 20 minute clip, I watched it and that moron went off on the nurse for something her superior said. He straight up said they had no way to get a warrant, he flat up said he was getting pissed, he dug his hole, now he can lie in it. This whole situation was BS plain and simple. No where did he say "DoT wants this blood, damn this chick for blocking us" or whatever. He wanted it for other cops. Why? Again -victim- not suspect, in a video taped attack by a moron who the cops literally chased into him!
Again this is from someone who loves most cops and appreciates what they do. But guys like this creep give you all a bad name. No one should be frightened of cops and more and more now a days people aren't scared they are terrified. Because of cops like this, that should be your issue with this scenario being ex leo, not nit picking s**t that means nothing in this case.
You should be horrified brother officers did this and be condemning them and after mentioning why they might want more blood i.e. the DoT regs etc, you all should have dropped it and focused on this cop and his LTs bad behaviors. Instead you just made yourselves look like you're cut from the same cloth as these morons by going on and on for 30 pages rehashing the same s**t over and over. You guys sound an awful lot like you're justifying/condoning what this cop did.
I've seen enough of your all posts in the past that I don't think that's true as I've agreed with more often than not. So please, please tell me why you are more concerned with those regs than what this cop actually tried to do to a victim and did to a nurse doing her job. Especially when waiting a little more and speaking to her supervisor who said he was on the way would have avoided all this.
a reply to: Shamrock6
Maybe because she was already intimidated by his attitude and scared as I said in my last post is happening more and more? And he should have ASKED first thing, from the 20 minute video you can see he has her flustered, the onus is on him since he's the one making demands, in my opinion. He was there "hours" trying to get the blood, why didn't he ask?
a reply to: Xcathdra
Access to the patient was not based on patient protection. Had the officer had warrant as hospital policy demands he would have been allowed to take blood. Had the patients safety been a factor the nurse would have made that argument.
She did not.
_________
And as for this, I would 100% agree with you and with a blood draw if he had a warrant, and the guy was suspected of anything.
He was not.
See how that works?
Maybe because she was already intimidated by his attitude and scared as I said in my last post is happening more and more? And he should have ASKED first thing, from the 20 minute video you can see he has her flustered, the onus is on him since he's the one making demands, in my opinion. He was there "hours" trying to get the blood, why didn't he ask?
a reply to: Xcathdra
Access to the patient was not based on patient protection. Had the officer had warrant as hospital policy demands he would have been allowed to take blood. Had the patients safety been a factor the nurse would have made that argument.
She did not.
_________
And as for this, I would 100% agree with you and with a blood draw if he had a warrant, and the guy was suspected of anything.
He was not.
See how that works?
a reply to: Lilroanie
Because all facts are important and not just the ones that support the nurses version of events. If people are too lazy to look for all facts then people, like myself, are going to provide them. At least that way if people enter the thread without starting at page 1 they wont be presented with just one side of the story.
You want to attack the officer go for it, thats your right of course. However it says a lot about character when people dont want all the facts in fear it might disrupt the view of what actually occurred.
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Not the truth, the half truth and whatever helps an agenda out.
Because all facts are important and not just the ones that support the nurses version of events. If people are too lazy to look for all facts then people, like myself, are going to provide them. At least that way if people enter the thread without starting at page 1 they wont be presented with just one side of the story.
You want to attack the officer go for it, thats your right of course. However it says a lot about character when people dont want all the facts in fear it might disrupt the view of what actually occurred.
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Not the truth, the half truth and whatever helps an agenda out.
a reply to: Shamrock6
It is obvious that this conversation is just going in circles.
I will say this one last thing, again.
Placing a line and collecting blood is the first thing that is done when a burn patient arrives in the hospital. The first thing.
The first thing you do before you collect evidence is to ask if any specimens have already been collected.
There still has been no explanation for the urgency of this blood draw.
I find the incident highly suspicious because if there was a good reason for the urgency and the detective's behavior, it would seem someone would have spoken up about it, but they haven't.
I accept that you think that the detective was acting within his authority. I don't. Nothing either of us can say is going to change the opinion of the other. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
It is obvious that this conversation is just going in circles.
I will say this one last thing, again.
Placing a line and collecting blood is the first thing that is done when a burn patient arrives in the hospital. The first thing.
The first thing you do before you collect evidence is to ask if any specimens have already been collected.
There still has been no explanation for the urgency of this blood draw.
I find the incident highly suspicious because if there was a good reason for the urgency and the detective's behavior, it would seem someone would have spoken up about it, but they haven't.
I accept that you think that the detective was acting within his authority. I don't. Nothing either of us can say is going to change the opinion of the other. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
a reply to: Lilroanie
You're missing the point. Yes, he should have asked. Which is why I didn't say he shouldn't have asked.
But since it's such a "no brainer" and "any competent professional person" would think of it, why wasn't it mentioned at the very beginning of the whole hour-plus interaction? Yes, you can see she's flustered thanks to his behavior in the video. And he'd already been there for an hour at that point. Are you suggesting that she was that flustered from the very outset of their interaction, so much so that the "no brainer" went right out the window for her? I mean...sure, maybe. But we haven't seen any indication that the cop came in to the hospital and immediately went King Kong on everybody right from the get-go.
You're missing the point. Yes, he should have asked. Which is why I didn't say he shouldn't have asked.
But since it's such a "no brainer" and "any competent professional person" would think of it, why wasn't it mentioned at the very beginning of the whole hour-plus interaction? Yes, you can see she's flustered thanks to his behavior in the video. And he'd already been there for an hour at that point. Are you suggesting that she was that flustered from the very outset of their interaction, so much so that the "no brainer" went right out the window for her? I mean...sure, maybe. But we haven't seen any indication that the cop came in to the hospital and immediately went King Kong on everybody right from the get-go.
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Then why didnt medical staff tell him blood was already taken? Were they trying to hide behind HIPPA (even though it wouldnt apply in this case) or was the medical professionals more intent on challenging law enforcement just because instead of providing the very info that would have ended this incident before it even began?
The fact the nurse is making the talk show rounds while selectively releasing only a 2 minute portion of the video while leaving out the fact they already had blood would suggest they went looking for a confrontation with law enforcement.
Professionalism works in both directions.
Then why didnt medical staff tell him blood was already taken? Were they trying to hide behind HIPPA (even though it wouldnt apply in this case) or was the medical professionals more intent on challenging law enforcement just because instead of providing the very info that would have ended this incident before it even began?
The fact the nurse is making the talk show rounds while selectively releasing only a 2 minute portion of the video while leaving out the fact they already had blood would suggest they went looking for a confrontation with law enforcement.
Professionalism works in both directions.
edit on 4-9-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Yea there's literally no point in discussing anything at all with you, based entirely on that comment. I've repeatedly stated my position on his behavior and his authority, and you've apparently chosen to ignore what I've actually said and decided to substitute what you think I must actually mean. I've made it crystal clear that a) the arrest was wrong and b) I have no position on his authority for the blood draw because of the myriad of factors at play. There's everything from Supreme Court rulings to hospital policy, and everything in between, all coming together in one ugly collision.
If you're going to ignore what somebody says and substitute your own thoughts as to what that person must actually mean, save everybody the trouble and just talk to yourself.
I accept that you think that the detective was acting within his authority.
Yea there's literally no point in discussing anything at all with you, based entirely on that comment. I've repeatedly stated my position on his behavior and his authority, and you've apparently chosen to ignore what I've actually said and decided to substitute what you think I must actually mean. I've made it crystal clear that a) the arrest was wrong and b) I have no position on his authority for the blood draw because of the myriad of factors at play. There's everything from Supreme Court rulings to hospital policy, and everything in between, all coming together in one ugly collision.
If you're going to ignore what somebody says and substitute your own thoughts as to what that person must actually mean, save everybody the trouble and just talk to yourself.
a reply to: Xcathdra
Not what I said at all
from my post above: You should be horrified brother officers did this and be condemning them and after mentioning why they might want more blood i.e. the DoT regs etc, you all should have dropped it and focused on this cop and his LTs bad behaviors. Instead you just made yourselves look like you're cut from the same cloth as these morons by going on and on for 30 pages rehashing the same s**t over and over. You guys sound an awful lot like you're justifying/condoning what this cop did.
_________________
I agree we needed to know that info and whole-heartedly thank you, Zaphod, and Shamrock for pointing those regs out. I learned a lot from reading all that. But 30 pages of using those regs to justify what that cop did just made you look bad. I'm not really arguing or calling you bad guys, because like I said over the years I have agreed more often than not with all 3 of you. All I'm saying is you are defending the bad guy here. And since up till now I have always respected all 3 of you, to the point I wait for your posts in "cop bashing" posts to get the other side, I'm horrifically confused. Please tell me why you are more concerned about an obviously, video taped behaving badly cop than the nurse he abused and the fact he was treating a victim as a suspect? I mean this with respect because I just don't get the 30 page argument.
Not what I said at all
from my post above: You should be horrified brother officers did this and be condemning them and after mentioning why they might want more blood i.e. the DoT regs etc, you all should have dropped it and focused on this cop and his LTs bad behaviors. Instead you just made yourselves look like you're cut from the same cloth as these morons by going on and on for 30 pages rehashing the same s**t over and over. You guys sound an awful lot like you're justifying/condoning what this cop did.
_________________
I agree we needed to know that info and whole-heartedly thank you, Zaphod, and Shamrock for pointing those regs out. I learned a lot from reading all that. But 30 pages of using those regs to justify what that cop did just made you look bad. I'm not really arguing or calling you bad guys, because like I said over the years I have agreed more often than not with all 3 of you. All I'm saying is you are defending the bad guy here. And since up till now I have always respected all 3 of you, to the point I wait for your posts in "cop bashing" posts to get the other side, I'm horrifically confused. Please tell me why you are more concerned about an obviously, video taped behaving badly cop than the nurse he abused and the fact he was treating a victim as a suspect? I mean this with respect because I just don't get the 30 page argument.
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
No - you arent answering the question.
The moment the detective found out the hospital took a sample the nurse was released and the encounter ended. Had the nurse provided that info at the start this whole thing could have been avoided.
The medical staff was looking for a fight in this scenario simply because they wanted to. Medical staff can be just ass arrogant and just as assinine as law enforcement can.
The nurses actions say a lot and those actions should be weighed against the detectives actions.
No - you arent answering the question.
The moment the detective found out the hospital took a sample the nurse was released and the encounter ended. Had the nurse provided that info at the start this whole thing could have been avoided.
The medical staff was looking for a fight in this scenario simply because they wanted to. Medical staff can be just ass arrogant and just as assinine as law enforcement can.
The nurses actions say a lot and those actions should be weighed against the detectives actions.
a reply to: Lilroanie
If you read the previous 30 pages you would have seen we have stated the cop could have handled the situation differently than he did.
We rehashed it because people who arent familiar with how laws and scotus rulings work couldnt grasp what they were being told (using your logic that would make them morons as well).
also you are welcome for the regs in question since I was the one who actually posted them. Something you would have known had you read the 30+ pages like you claimed. Or was that intentional in an effort to do what you claim you didnt want to do - rehash stuff from 30 pages ago?
This is why we go in circles in case you were lost on that.
If you read the previous 30 pages you would have seen we have stated the cop could have handled the situation differently than he did.
We rehashed it because people who arent familiar with how laws and scotus rulings work couldnt grasp what they were being told (using your logic that would make them morons as well).
also you are welcome for the regs in question since I was the one who actually posted them. Something you would have known had you read the 30+ pages like you claimed. Or was that intentional in an effort to do what you claim you didnt want to do - rehash stuff from 30 pages ago?
This is why we go in circles in case you were lost on that.
edit on 4-9-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
I find it ironic that the fellow turned out to be a reserve officer from a nearby county.
His department is praising the nurse for protecting the officers rights.
His department is praising the nurse for protecting the officers rights.
originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: Xcathdra
Nice conjecture. Were you there? You state as a fact that the medical professionals were looking for a fight with the cops. That is insane and you don't know that as you were not there and speak as to what someone was thinking.
just using available facts and the video in question that others are using to judge the cops actions. Maybe i missed it.. Point out in the video, the entire 20 minute one, where medical staff said they already took a blood sample.
I'll wait.
edit on 4-9-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Xcathdra
I genuinely wonder what planet some of you folk's are from, the nurse was doing her job, she may not even have been privy to those detail's and this officer was quite frankly out of order and unprofessional and bullying in his action's, in fact I truly believe the guy may be suffering from some sort of stress related condition that mean's he really should not have been a serving officer on that occasion, he made an arrest were no crime was committed but because his will was not enforced by this nurse, not note that HIS WILL not that of the law, the Nurse did not resist yet he inflicted pain on her by the way he cuffed her with her arm wrenched behind her back.
I am sorry pal I am not from the US but I did work security and deal with joe public for many years, over a decade in fact in retail security dealing with petty criminal's, everything from kicking drug dealers and Gypsy's off of supermarket car park's to catching and detaining shoplifters and bag snatchers, had plenty of incidents including being slashed at with knives and we don't have gun's over here, most of our police do not as well.
SO this guy you are defending was to put it frankly completely abusive of his position, the other officers with him did not jump to help him in his behavior either though of course they have to work with him, still I read there body language as not in agreement with his.
Why are you defending an idiot like this that put's all decent law enforcement agent's in a bad light by his action's.
I genuinely wonder what planet some of you folk's are from, the nurse was doing her job, she may not even have been privy to those detail's and this officer was quite frankly out of order and unprofessional and bullying in his action's, in fact I truly believe the guy may be suffering from some sort of stress related condition that mean's he really should not have been a serving officer on that occasion, he made an arrest were no crime was committed but because his will was not enforced by this nurse, not note that HIS WILL not that of the law, the Nurse did not resist yet he inflicted pain on her by the way he cuffed her with her arm wrenched behind her back.
I am sorry pal I am not from the US but I did work security and deal with joe public for many years, over a decade in fact in retail security dealing with petty criminal's, everything from kicking drug dealers and Gypsy's off of supermarket car park's to catching and detaining shoplifters and bag snatchers, had plenty of incidents including being slashed at with knives and we don't have gun's over here, most of our police do not as well.
SO this guy you are defending was to put it frankly completely abusive of his position, the other officers with him did not jump to help him in his behavior either though of course they have to work with him, still I read there body language as not in agreement with his.
Why are you defending an idiot like this that put's all decent law enforcement agent's in a bad light by his action's.
new topics
-
Trans Activist decide to go ahead with their Day of Rage in DC
US Political Madness: 16 minutes ago -
List of American Think Tanks
US Political Madness: 29 minutes ago -
March 2023 - CNN Viewership has Declined to Where it Was in 1991 and Continues to Plummet.
Education and Media: 48 minutes ago -
Damar Hamlin is an ET
Aliens and UFOs: 1 hours ago -
Death is not the end
Philosophy and Metaphysics: 2 hours ago -
China's domination is now inevitable
Global Meltdown: 2 hours ago -
U.S. Marshals Told to Stand Down Outside Supreme Court Justices Homes
Political Mud-Pit: 3 hours ago -
China, Brazil strike deal to ditch dollar for trade
Political Mud-Pit: 5 hours ago -
Are these School Shooters WOKE Matyrs ?
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 6 hours ago -
UK Developing 'Ajax' Armored Vehicle; Problems with
Military Projects: 6 hours ago
top topics
-
People who took the jab - How do you move forward?
Diseases and Pandemics: 7 hours ago, 25 flags -
U.S. Marshals Told to Stand Down Outside Supreme Court Justices Homes
Political Mud-Pit: 3 hours ago, 21 flags -
Democrats are now advocating for violence against "transphobes"
Political Mud-Pit: 8 hours ago, 20 flags -
IRS Targeted Twitter Files Journalist Matt Taibbi
Political Mud-Pit: 10 hours ago, 17 flags -
Ohio River Disaster as Barge With Tons of Toxic Methanol Sinks
Disaster Conspiracies: 12 hours ago, 17 flags -
China, Brazil strike deal to ditch dollar for trade
Political Mud-Pit: 5 hours ago, 16 flags -
Nashville Shooter Used a Carbine NOT An Assault Rifle
Political Mud-Pit: 9 hours ago, 14 flags -
Christian Schools Evacuated Threats of Active Shooters.
Political Mud-Pit: 12 hours ago, 12 flags -
Saudi Arabia strengthens security ties with Beijing
Political Mud-Pit: 15 hours ago, 12 flags -
Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter Signed by Elon Musk and others
Aliens and UFOs: 10 hours ago, 12 flags
active topics
-
Trans Activist decide to go ahead with their Day of Rage in DC
US Political Madness • 2 • : JinMI -
Don’t get on a grand jury
Social Issues and Civil Unrest • 20 • : dandandat2 -
List of American Think Tanks
US Political Madness • 1 • : musicismagic -
China's domination is now inevitable
Global Meltdown • 22 • : LeeMich83 -
Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss
The Gray Area • 5854 • : Baddogma -
-@TH3WH17ERABB17- -Q- Questions ---WHO WILL PUT AN END TO THE ENDLESS?--- -Part- --42--
Political Conspiracies • 5765 • : Ektar -
A-10 Adapts To Survive US Finally Tests The New Super A-10 Warthog
Aircraft Projects • 16 • : TheToastmanCometh -
March 2023 - CNN Viewership has Declined to Where it Was in 1991 and Continues to Plummet.
Education and Media • 1 • : madmac5150 -
U.S. Marshals Told to Stand Down Outside Supreme Court Justices Homes
Political Mud-Pit • 12 • : visitedbythem -
Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’
Aliens and UFOs • 2954 • : peaceinoutz