Nurse forcibly arrested for not allowing cop to draw blood of unconscious patient(Video)

a reply to: Xcathdra

You don't think you're a little too aggressively one sided? I get what you are saying, I really do but that's only part of the topic.

The law is one thing, how the people enforcing it act is another. They serve the public, they do not rule the public. When one starts getting it wrong in their head, it goes badly.

No way did that nurse need arrested and any person of reasonable sensitivities, without an agenda would think the same IMO. All it takes is for an officer to lose control of their emotions once for bad things to happen.

That officer acted like the nurse was blocking for a hard core criminal instead of a victim of something partly caused by the police.

What's your opinion of high speed pursuits in a city that has multiple helicopters to follow someone and not put the innocent at risk? Is that a factor? Could that be related to why the officer went too far?

a reply to: Xcathdra


Well, I can answer one of those factually--- the reason for the accident was the guy the police were chasing went into oncoming traffic and hit the victim head on. There is no reasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe the victim to be under the influence or intoxicated and require a blood test . He did not swerve into oncoming traffic. He is an innocent bystander. Now for my speculation as to the why , I think the reason they did not call a judge for a warrant is they knew he would not give one so they felt the need to intimidate their way to a blood test. I can only assume they were drawing at straws for him to have drugs or alcohol in his system to try and blame him for the accident.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Till later, then!

*waves*

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: craig732

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Hypothetical question, Do you have a right to resist arrest in these type of scenarios?.

www.constitution.org...“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.”

I hope to hell nobody reads this bullsnip you posted. The very first "quote" in that discussion is a complete and total fabrication. It appears literally nowhere in the actual case law or court opinion on the case, and everything falls apart even further after that.

Thanks for pointing that out. Don't click it anyone must be a malware click bait site, my anti virus even blocked it.

a reply to: norhoc

I can't attest to the sentiment of the police at large, but there was no way the detective had any authority without a warrant.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
What's your opinion of high speed pursuits in a city that has multiple helicopters to follow someone and not put the innocent at risk? Is that a factor? Could that be related to why the officer went too far?

Torrie v. Weber County

... the Utah Supreme Court held that a Utah statute, which exempts emergency vehicles from normal traffic laws during pursuits, does not relieve officers of the duty to drive in a reasonably prudent way.

The Utah legislature introduced legislation that tried to change the impact of this ruling, but that has gone nowhere:

Bill Aims to Limit Liability of Police Officers in Car Chases

Bill status: le.utah.gov...

originally posted by: OrdoAdChao
a reply to: Xcathdra

Where does it state that? Pull it up and I just might concede. I cannot for the life of me find anything regarding the collection of blood by an LEO as being enforceable by the regulations. Yes, it states that a driver must submit to a drug test or be relieved of their duties and most definitely (eventually) their CDL. But there's no direction that LEO shall collect blood from a driver involved in an accident. The DOT doesn't make regulations that local LEOs enforce. He needs to follow his procedure, not volunteer to enforce DOT regulation on an unconscious burn victim whose records will reflect an initial toxicology screen that can be brought into evidence at a later date if need be.

Well the law is pretty succinct that if a motorist is either placed under arrest OR an officer can show probable cause, then they can call for an illicit substance test, which may or may not require a blood sampling.

What he is misrepresenting is CAN with MUST. He is erronesously suggesting that because of a federal guideline for transportation safety a recitation of inarguable LAW has been provided. Unfortunately for him, he has been shown time and time again why he is wrong but fails to understand it, and at this point just wants to be "right".

The nurse in this incident has suggested that she isn't going to press charges for this act, which I think is a bad move...I commend her for just wanting peace and calm to prevail, as do I frankly and its VERY likely even this dumbass cop didn't want it to turn the way it did....but I believe if she doesn't press charges it sends the wrong signal to other healthcare professionals that may face similar circumstances (which by the way, with respect to Law Enforcement, this is an EXTREME one-off, you dont see this kind of thing happening rampantly) that they need to take a more restrained view on patients - and human - rights.

a reply to: OrdoAdChao


We agree 100% on that

originally posted by: alphabetaone

The nurse in this incident has suggested that she isn't going to press charges for this act, which I think is a bad move...I commend her for just wanting peace and calm to prevail, as do I frankly and its VERY likely even this dumbass cop didn't want it to turn the way it did....but I believe if she doesn't press charges it sends the wrong signal to other healthcare professionals that may face similar circumstances (which by the way, with respect to Law Enforcement, this is an EXTREME one-off, you dont see this kind of thing happening rampantly) that they need to take a more restrained view on patients - and human - rights.

It's very unfortunate and I believe criminal charges should be pressed on the officer. He had absolutely no authority whatsoever to demand a blood test and then, well, yeah.

Law suits aren't just frivolous grasps for money. In cases like this, they set precedence and can carry on to higher courts that eventually influence legislation.

a reply to: norhoc

Kinda got stuck in gear, there. To me it simply begins and ends there. Anything that happened after it is potentially criminal.



But in all honesty, your scenario is probably not far from reality. And that's really sad.

a reply to: OrdoAdChao

Well, just because she decides not to press charges against the officer, doesn't mean there wont be a criminal investigation into this by the prosecutors office which has been suggested by the DA.

If sufficient evidence is found (which I don't see how it cannot be) to bring this to trial, it will still set precedent and affect legislation eventually. So there's hope...

Why are those POS cops on paid leave?

a reply to: loam

Thank you.

That reinforces my thoughts.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Why are those POS cops on paid leave?

Due process I'd think. They would need an investigation and hearing before they do anything else. The same reason POS criminals have the right to due process.

a reply to: Blaine91555

You're welcome. Like I said myself earlier, the only reason they would seek a drug test in this manner from a victim of the chase unrelated to the pursued would be to hope for some evidence to lessen any possibility of liability on their part.

They were digging for a lottery win.

a reply to: alphabetaone

We can only hope! It needs to happen. I doubt the department has any written policy that would ever alleviate the mistakes he made as an officer of the law.

The video speaks volumes and the woman was scared out of her wits by the whole event which was a total fiasco from the start. "Authority run amok" is all I can say.

originally posted by: dreamingawake

Bodycam video shows a Salt Lake City police detective grabbing a frightened nurse and twisting her arm before handcuffing her at University Hospital, all because she cited policy not allowing him to draw blood from an unconscious patient. “I’m just trying to do what I’m supposed to do,” nurse Alex Wubbels explained to Detective Jeff Payne on July 26. Video of her violent arrest was released by the Salt Lake Tribune late Thursday.

Source - Newsline

Video provided below, this look really uncalled for. The unconscious patient was a victim in the accident.

Hope she sues the cop and city senseless.

People coming out of Police Academy should get a comprehensive test on The Constitution and Bill of Rights. If they fail a single question on that section... they should fail the exam.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist

originally posted by: amazing
Here's the weird thing. I think she was in the right, but...

Why was she the only one standing up for that patient? Where were managers, doctors, supervisers, other nurses, administrators etc. ? that almost makes you think she was in the wrong, or nobody in the hospital liked her and were using her as a scapegoat or something.

Because it was her patient. I don't think you understand the role and responsibility and accountability of an RN.

But it's a team. You don't let your team mate take it like that. And it's everyone's responsibility to care for the patient. You mean the rest of the people at the hospital didn't care?

I mean if the doctors not on the floor the RN is the boss. If the police show up and are already talking to the boss, the aides, and clerks, and janitors probably wouldn't step in because the boss is handling it and who wants to get shot

a reply to: Blaine91555

Due process I'd think.

Yep.

I understand the optics that it gives. The example I always use, which while not an exact fit still applies, is this: how would you like to be sent home and put on unpaid status if you might have done something wrong at your job for however long it took your employer to resolve the issue created by what you did wrong?

Again, not a perfect fit, but it's the only real way to explain it. And, again, I understand the optics of it.

From what I've seen so far the nurse was doing her job properly, and the major tactical error on the officers part was not waiting for the nurse's superiors to get to the scene to render an appropriate legal decision on behalf of the patient, and the hospital.

In the law suit happy world we live in, everyone in the medical profession needs to follow exactly what they are told via their employer, and if there is a judgement call as per this incident, then the highest up needs to make that decision.

The nurse followed her protocol, she was challenged by law enforcement, then she took the next step by getting her superiors involved, but the law enforcement officer wasn't waiting for them, so it may very well cost the city millions.

Professionalism, patience, and understanding go a long way in getting things done. When being arrested the person being arrested has the right to know why, and by what law they have broken, or if they are just being detained.

Whether this goes to trial, or not it will set new legal standards for sure.