Phoenix protester shot in dangly bits arrested after identifying himself to Reddit

a reply to: muzzleflash

Wait, so you actually believe kicking a canister that a Leo just shot at you is legitimately equal to holding a gun to his head and making demands during a hostage situation?

Wait, are you just going to make things up and then present them as if I said them and you're making a rational point? Ah, yes, that's what you're doing. But I'll answer anyway: no, I don't, which is why there's different classes of felonies.

Because that's what charge would be levied if you held a gun to a Leo's head - aggravated assault of a leo. He was facing a direct threat to his life in that situation.

Yep, same charge. I'd be willing to bet that'd be a Class Two felony, and I'd be willing to bet he's not been charged with Class Two felonies.

If that threatens someone's life - why are police shooting canisters at people to begin with?

You seem to have a pretty poor grasp of what constitutes assault and what doesn't, along with a poor grasp of what I'm actually saying versus what you think I must really mean.

originally posted by: Montana
a reply to: Shamrock6
Are they? Hmmmm

What happens when every action becomes a felony?

What happened to the boy who cried wolf? People stopped listening, it became just one more source of noise. Keep severe charges and punishments for severe crimes.

Exactly.
That's all.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I wasn't making a strawman I was asking questions because you are totally 100% on one side of the issue here.
I didn't say you said those things, I was asking if you believed things like that or (if you so choose), you could elaborate and explain why you don't agree with those things or if you only partially agree, etc.

a reply to: Montana

What happens when every action becomes a felony?

Might be a relevant question if we were approaching that point, but we're not.

Keep severe charges and punishments for severe crimes.

Most people would consider assaulting law enforcement to be a serious crime.

originally posted by: Montana
Kind of a shame to see *these* LEOs have become snowflakes as well...

I'm curious. If you were with a group of people and a much larger group of people started throwing rocks at you, would you defend yourself? Do the police have the right to defend themselves while doing their jobs? Should what amounts to angry mobs be allowed to run wild and do as they wish just because they call it protest?

Do "snowflakes" put on a badge and risk their lives to protect others, even people they don't like?

a reply to: muzzleflash

I wasn't making a strawman

Yes you are.

you are totally 100% on one side of the issue here.

No, I'm not. Evidenced by the fact that I said I'd be the first to agree that if he's been charged with Class Two felonies that that's overkill.

I didn't say you said those things,

You're right. You said "so you actually believe..." implying that I had stated the belief.

I was asking if you believed things like that or (if you so choose), you could elaborate and explain why you don't agree with those things or if you only partially agree, etc.

I already have.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
I'm a Constitutionalist - that's why I am legitimately attacking this.
And I feel very sorry for the kid, the overbearing out of control insane government just dropped the heavy hammer on him over a very minor infraction simply to placate the anger of one political side.

Then you believe that only peaceful assembly is protected.

How do you know in advance how heavy the hammer will be? You seem to be jumping the gun here.

a reply to: muzzleflash

The guy also brought this on his self in more ways than one. First off for kicking the gas canister and second FOR GOING ON LINE AND BRAGGING ABOUT IT.

That can be used against him so now they basically have a confession now. One day people will learn to not live life online. I imagine this guy will get an ACLU lawyer and charges will be dismissed.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Did this man throw a rock?

When did we see that?

Was he charged with someone else's crime?

Curioser and curiouser...

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: muzzleflash

You seem to have a pretty poor grasp of what constitutes assault and what doesn't, along with a poor grasp of what I'm actually saying versus what you think I must really mean.

I'm sure Judge Dredd would believe anyone resisting his beat down is aggravated assault.

But that's not reasonable nor is it real life.
Citizens have just as many rights as LEO's.

This thought pattern of putting government officials above regular citizens is dangerous and needs to be addressed.

How many times has someone merely pulled their arm away saying "ow that hurts!" and the cop says "that's resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer!". Countless.

I personally am not impressed by the clear corruption going on here.

When protestors turn from protesting to physical acts against law enforcement, they are no longer protestors but agitators and rioters. The rules change, and our law enforcement officers must be protected.

When you start overlooking acts such as this one, you might as well let chaos reign supreme, because one small act of violence overlooked will just escalate on to bigger acts.

Nip it in the bud. That's what had to happen.

originally posted by: DJMSN
a reply to: muzzleflash

The guy also brought this on his self in more ways than one. First off for kicking the gas canister and second FOR GOING ON LINE AND BRAGGING ABOUT IT.

That can be used against him so now they basically have a confession now. One day people will learn to not live life online. I imagine this guy will get an ACLU lawyer and charges will be dismissed.

Well then, I guess anything that happens to anyone they bring upon themselves.

Like when some girl gets raped, she shouldn't have been dressed that way.
Or that girl who got run over last week, she shouldn't have been out in the street.
Or that Congressman who got shot a few months back, he shouldn't have been associating himself with people that provoked the violence by having opinions the shooter disagreed with.

Yeah... that logic doesn't work.

To be clear, i support my Police force. I make a point of showing thanks and support when I see an officer doing a good job. Usually I will wait till he or she has finished whatever they are doing then walk up and shake their hand and say thank you.

In my experience there is a big difference between a Police Officer and someone who calls them self an LEO. Shake the hand of the first. Back slowly away from the second with your hands open and held at chest level away from your body.

originally posted by: queenofswords
When protestors turn from protesting to physical acts against law enforcement, they are no longer protestors but agitators and rioters. The rules change, and our law enforcement officers must be protected.

When you start overlooking acts such as this one, you might as well let chaos reign supreme, because one small act of violence overlooked will just escalate on to bigger acts.

Nip it in the bud. That's what had to happen.

I didn't say overlook it.
I said charge the right crime - a few misdemeanors.

This is like charging someone with attempted murder for slapping someone.

a reply to: Montana

We don't know if he threw a rock also or not. He mentioned himself the rocks on the ground and that is why the teargas. You do know that just the act of defying a lawful order from the police is a crime? If you are with a violent group, you take your chances and should not whine about the outcome.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: muzzleflash
I'm a Constitutionalist - that's why I am legitimately attacking this.
And I feel very sorry for the kid, the overbearing out of control insane government just dropped the heavy hammer on him over a very minor infraction simply to placate the anger of one political side.

Then you believe that only peaceful assembly is protected.

How do you know in advance how heavy the hammer will be? You seem to be jumping the gun here.

Because they charged him with insanely serious crimes.
Unless you're saying this whole story is a hoax and no one really got charged with this for the said infractions?

Merely being accused of a felony ruins your record.
Most job applications don't say "have you been convicted of a felony" anymore, they actually say "have you ever been charged OR convicted of a felony?".

And even if you get it expunged later on it's still posted all over the internet and the way most people in this nation are they believe being charged with a crime = automatically guilty.

Like here in this thread, everyone assumed this guy is guilty.
But guilty of what? He confessed, but to what crime exactly?
Can his confession be used in court for the crimes being charged here?

a reply to: muzzleflash

I missed this one somehow, so I'll re-ask the question that I asked before.

You say it's a minor infraction to send tear gas/CS back at police, because they have protective equipment on. Or at least that's the only argument you have that makes any sort of sense. Assault is assault, and it doesn't have to be "life threatening" to be assault. The whole "they just shot it at you" defense doesn't wash because he had to run forward to kick it.

So...running with that one solitary argument that makes some sort of sense, my question remains: law enforcement wears body armor on patrol. Should we treat it different when somebody shoots a cop in the vest than we treat it if they shoot a cop in the head?

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Shamrock6

Wait, so you actually believe kicking a canister that a Leo just shot at you is legitimately equal to holding a gun to his head and making demands during a hostage situation?

Because that's what charge would be levied if you held a gun to a Leo's head - aggravated assault of a leo.
He was facing a direct threat to his life in that situation.

But kicking a canister?
If that threatens someone's life - why are police shooting canisters at people to begin with?

If a Gun was in the picture again whole new set of rules. Espicially in Arizona, the cops don't mess around there.

Funny how the protestors scream how words are a form of violence now, but kicking a metal gas can at the cops is not aggressive or violent.

The charges will get reduced. I'm guessing they bumped them up for the media attention to scare the rest of the children.

If you brought a gas mask and are a part the crowd of people throwing stuff at the cops you know what you're getting into. Don't try and play it
Like he was an innocent just standing there wth flowers and love.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

a reply to: Blaine91555
We aren't talking about the whole protest here. We are talking about this one action and the charges that have been leveled for them. You are in danger of equating kicking a canister (and kind of a wimpy kick at that) to charging the line of leos with weapons drawn. I agree that the two actions are prosecuted similarly, i don't agree that this is reasonable.

a reply to: muzzleflash

K well since you're no longer addressing anything I'm actually saying and just making things up and attacking the things you've made up, we're done here.