Moving On From Civil War Statues, Leftists Destroy Christopher Columbus Monument

a reply to: DanDanDat

History is always relevant to the present. History builds the present, and to say that the historical Columbus narrative isn't relevant to the discussion is naive. Columbus was honored for the wrong reasons and those wrong reasons spurred the creation of those monuments. Now the backlash is to tear them down.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DanDanDat

History is always relevant to the present. History builds the present, and to say that the historical Columbus narrative isn't relevant to the discussion is naive. Columbus was honored for the wrong reasons and those wrong reasons spurred the creation of those monuments. Now the backlash is to tear them down.

On a message board, between civil people, we can discuss the finner points of why statues where created and the mistakes made during that process. Hopefully one-day this action and others like it will lead to the removal of Columbus to be replaced by a more acceptable symbol of imigrent heritage.

But today when statues are being labeled symbols of white supremacy and defaced or distorted that imigrent community (that has had their own run ins with white supremacy) is not going to be interested in having a constructive dialog; they are going to become angry at what they will perceive as an unprovoked attack on their heritage.

It was easy to dismiss this reaction when we where talking about white supremacists, who deserve everything they get. It becomes less palatable when we are talking about imigrent communities.

Columbus was a monster in every sense of the word.

Robert E. Lee believed that Black people were inferior and that God had imposed slavery on them.

The leaders of the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis and Andrew Stephens, made it clear that the basic essential facts about the Confederacy was that it a) enshrined the institution of slavery in law and b) considered White Supremacy as a fundamental fact of existence.

THAT is what Confederate symbols mean, because that's what the Confederacy meant.

THAT is the historical fact, for those continually whining and crying about erasing history; you don't care about history, you care about your own interpretations and your widdle hoit feelings.

Grow up.

I have said it before and I will say it again.....Some people are going to start tearing down civil rights leaders statutes saying they are offensive to....

And the people who don't stand up and defend against the current statutes will have no leg to stand on when others are torn down as well...Erase all history I guess...

originally posted by: GuidedKill
I have said it before and I will say it again.....Some people are going to start tearing down civil rights leaders statutes saying they are offensive to....

And the people who don't stand up and defend against the current statutes will have no leg to stand on when others are torn down as well...Erase all history I guess...

Perhaps you will name the Civil Rights leaders that advocated for slavery and White Supremacy?

Thx.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: GuidedKill
I have said it before and I will say it again.....Some people are going to start tearing down civil rights leaders statutes saying they are offensive to....

And the people who don't stand up and defend against the current statutes will have no leg to stand on when others are torn down as well...Erase all history I guess...

Perhaps you will name the Civil Rights leaders that advocated for slavery and White Supremacy?

Thx.

Apparently you haven't figured out it's about feelings....Someone is going to come along and say civil rights hurt their feelings. And in today's feeling conscious climate you won't have a leg to stand on because you already bowed down to others "feelings". If you don't put as much value in to their hurt feelings as you did the others hurt feelings then you're just a bigoted racist Nazi....



See how that works???

a reply to: Krakatoa

Ahh ok, thanks for the clarification

originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: GuidedKill
I have said it before and I will say it again.....Some people are going to start tearing down civil rights leaders statutes saying they are offensive to....

And the people who don't stand up and defend against the current statutes will have no leg to stand on when others are torn down as well...Erase all history I guess...

Perhaps you will name the Civil Rights leaders that advocated for slavery and White Supremacy?

Thx.

Apparently you haven't figured out it's about feelings....Someone is going to come along and say civil rights hurt their feelings. And in today's feeling conscious climate you won't have a leg to stand on because you already bowed down to others "feelings". If you don't put as much value in to their hurt feelings as you did the others hurt feelings then you're just a bigoted racist Nazi....



See how that works???

Perhaps it's "about feelings" for you and others members ... it's about facts for most of us. You can't whine and cry about people reacting emotionally one minute by suggesting individual responsibility, and then deny it the next.

So, you don't have any examples of Civil Rights leaders who fronted for slavery and White Supremacy?

Fair enough.

a reply to: Gryphon66



LINK

LINK

and a little snopes about blacks owning and trading slaves....

LINK


So I guess any black person who fought for civil rights and didn't condemn these black slave owners is just as guilty as the person owning the slaves...I don't remember any civil rights leader coming out and condemning the actions of their fellow black slave owners.....There fore they must have supported it....Down with their statues....


See how ridiculous an argument can be made for removing something that literally has not effect on 2017..


Get a grip my friend..

a reply to: GuidedKill

That's all very interesting. Your "guesses" seem off to me, but that's my opinion ... just like what you seem to be so upset about.

My point is simple:

Did you have anything about Civil Rights leaders advocating slavery and White Supremacy or not?

Any chance we could get them to destroy a Bob's Big Boy?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: GuidedKill

That's all very interesting. Your "guesses" seem off to me, but that's my opinion ... just like what you seem to be so upset about.

My point is simple:

Did you have anything about Civil Rights leaders advocating slavery and White Supremacy or not?

They are advocating black supremacy right this second....BLM anyone....But as long as it's not white supremacy it's ok I guess....


Racist!!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Columbus was a monster in every sense of the word.

THAT is the historical fact, for those continually whining and crying about erasing history; you don't care about history, you care about your own interpretations and your widdle hoit feelings.

Grow up.

I do care about the cultural ideanty of the immigrant community I live in; and for better or worse Columbas is part of that ideanty.

Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a civily discussion over changing that ideanty with the persuaded buy in from these immigrants.

But it's is entirely different and wrong to force our will on that county.

This is definitely about feelings; and to grow up is to be able to be empathetic about other people feelings and not just your own.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Well either way people will be upset. I think it is better for the overall historical knowledge to remove the statues as they create a distorted image of the person. The longer we let them stay the more ingrained the bad ideas about these people remain.

Columbus being distorted with racism is a bit iffy since he was a slaver and not necessarily a racist, but still it's better to just remove the statue. He shouldn't be honored to begin with.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I have no doubt that to those people that is what it meant. (the flag)

My contention is and has been that you have not one iota of proof that all the thousands upon thousands that fought, bled, and in many cases died under that flag felt that way as well.

I am certain some did, I am certain others did not like slavery, but felt they had no power to change it, and I am certain that still others hardly ever gave slavery any thought, and were fighting to defend their home state.

Yet I routinely see people here and elsewhere using blanket statements to refer to the entire 22 million or so population of the south.

That annoys me, and I am sure others as well.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Are you speaking of an Italian community?

Oh please, don't even try a little mini-lecture to me on empathy and feelings. All you're presenting here is a black box argument. I am really curious what "community" you're referring to that holds Mr Columbo in such high regard.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I understand what you're saying. I'm a native Georgian, my high school was The Rebels, etc. etc.

We all have to admit though that the modern use of the Confederate iconography was used for one purpose ... to fight against segregation and Civil Rights.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Actually "we" don't have to "admit" anything. Let me rephrase.

It seems obvious to me that bringing back the Confederate Battle flag (particularly in the mid 50s and early 60s) and many of the "memorials" that went up during that same period were "signs" ... not so much to the Federal government (although, I'm sure that was part of it) but also to locals both White and Black.

For Whites the message was "Don't worry, we're not going to change ..." and for Blacks I think it was " ... and don't you try to make us."

It is my opinion that the intimidation of Black Americans by White Supremacists to "stay in your place" was fairly constant from the end of Reconstruction right up through the late 60s particularly.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DanDanDat

Are you speaking of an Italian community?

Oh please, don't even try a little mini-lecture to me on empathy and feelings. All you're presenting here is a black box argument. I am really curious what "community" you're referring to that holds Mr Columbo in such high regard.

What I am presenting here is reality. You might want to try that prospective along with empathy.