Flat earth theory?

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

So many beliefs, and no way of telling what might be true, or not.
Not a crack of light yet. That could manifest as doubt or questionning.

Well, at least the "shape of the Earth" question can be approached rather directly without worrying about "beliefs".

It's pretty simple: Take all of the observations a person can make (such as the motion of the Sun, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientioan of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, the effects of gravity, etc), and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

There's no reason to complicate the matter by worrying about the philosophy of it all.

That almost sounds reasonable.

There is no aim to complicate matters, but to simplify.
And you have made a solid attempt here. Good post.

Okay, so let's do it.

Take all of the observations a person can make, and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

Let's start with the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientation of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, and the observable effects of gravity on Earth.

What shape for the Earth do these observations suggest and why?

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

and just like the flat earth documentary , you wont see any follow up from them !

He isn't even willing to take part in the experiment to prove flat earth !

so why would he take part in a thought experiment or other experiment to prove or disprove spherical earth?


@ Nothin

If scientism is the reason we are all lead to believe in spherical earth
then he should prove the earth is flat without using any of the tools of scientism as according to him they are all fallible
then you should use your own fallible perceptions to do the work , but you dont even trust your own perception
speaking of that very reason , you can see why humans invented instrumentation , because of the degree of limitation with our own senses!

so then you can provide us with a working theory with hard evidence , but remember no science can be used to obtain your answer!

I look forward to reading it !

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nothin

so we may as well just discuss whether or not we are real then instead of #ing around with flat earth!

absolute bollocks , as soon as folk post facts which debunk flat earth you change the goal posts to philosophical debate on truth and reason in order to bring into question the objective reality and the foundations of scientific theory !
Funny though , when you use objective fact and reason , you find flat earth is a giant steaming pile of #e!

I have already offered to engage in a experiment which will either prove or disprove flat earth or spherical earth
and we can publish data in unison for all to see you know to find the truth you keep banging on about. Yet offered to you on a silver platter
you refuse, speaks #in volumes mate I would ask ye again to take me up on the wee experiment but its clear for all to see that yer a #ebag !



edit for auld scots , #ebag = someone who is afraid

You are just like that fossilinn eejit who keeps changing the goal posts in his falsify my claim that columnar basalt is man made thread !
You two dont happen to know each other do you ?

...and...

@ Nothin

If scientism is the reason we are all lead to believe in spherical earth
then he should prove the earth is flat without using any of the tools of scientism as according to him they are all fallible
then you should use your own fallible perceptions to do the work , but you dont even trust your own perception
speaking of that very reason , you can see why humans invented instrumentation , because of the degree of limitation with our own senses!

so then you can provide us with a working theory with hard evidence , but remember no science can be used to obtain your answer!

I look forward to reading it !

Don't need any insults today, so it appears as though you are stuck with some venomous, sticky labels on your fingertips.
Careful what you do with them, so that you don't poison yourself.

Probably don't know your columnist friend.
It would seem the only things we have in common is that we're on ATS,
and that you don't understand us.

Sorry: no theory for you to read.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: Nothin

It's page 37, and the thread has become wide. You don't get to decide that it's not about something that you don't like, that we have been debating for a few pages now.

Seriously?

I am stupid just for feeding you even more.

I never said I don't like the idea about perceptions and illusions and maybe how a lot of reality is just an illusion our perception is programmed to see.

Its become wide because posters try derailing like bringing up whats in a posters signature.

Flat earth threads are always about a physical flat earth with No one allowed to Go to Antarctica and never about anything metaphysical or philosophical which would be more intellectually stimulating instead of this comedy and trolling threads that pop up that now seems once a month.

Your scientism is being claimed as truth, that's why we are discussing perceptions.

My scientism?

Your blindness has speaking nonsense, I never used any science to explain anything in flat earth threads.

I have never tried to explain anything in flat earth threads.

Your claim of knowlege, is disputed as opinion.

I never claimed any knowledge.

You asked a question about how is accepting or agreeing with NASA not a belief.

I answered with simple logic explaining how a belief can have good reason but at the same doesn't need it, anyone can believe in anything, with or without reason.

Accepting or agreeing usually has a logic behind it, like if NASA scientists make a claim anyone agreeing or accepting usually has used their brain and explored the claim and verified it to agree or accept.

Believing NASA scientists is what many may do, belief in claims by those more knowledgeable can have its benefits but can also allows those less knowledgeable to be manipulated.

That's why we are discussing opinions/beliefs.

I guess the things you don't understand you just have to believe and have an opinion about it while others can understand and are discussing the beliefs others hold that earth is flat or are simply feeding trolls with things that are verifiable.

You're right: you haven't done those things. My bad.

Most of the debunkers have, but not you specifically.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

So many beliefs, and no way of telling what might be true, or not.
Not a crack of light yet. That could manifest as doubt or questionning.

Well, at least the "shape of the Earth" question can be approached rather directly without worrying about "beliefs".

It's pretty simple: Take all of the observations a person can make (such as the motion of the Sun, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientioan of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, the effects of gravity, etc), and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

There's no reason to complicate the matter by worrying about the philosophy of it all.

That almost sounds reasonable.

There is no aim to complicate matters, but to simplify.
And you have made a solid attempt here. Good post.

Okay, so let's do it.

Take all of the observations a person can make, and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

Let's start with the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientation of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, and the observable effects of gravity on Earth.

What shape for the Earth do these observations suggest and why?

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

a reply to: Nothin

#ebag isn't an insult to someone in Scotland , maybe to outsiders aye , it could seem offensive , in Scotland #ebag is what kids call each other when they dare each other to do something fun or slightly risky or just adventurous

call it what ye like , its a harmless children's taunt where I come from.

But still doesnt change the fact you are a #ebag, or to put it in plain English , you sir are afraid that the truth will end your "belief" in flat earth and you don't want to burst your own wee bubble for whatever egocentric reason .

Just keep believing the earth is flat


I mean you said you dont trust others observations , yet you lie , you sit here using a personal computer built by multiple human observations every single item you put in your hand created by others observations, when you walk down a street on paving , when you cross the street at the cross walk , when you walk across a bridge over water, when you fly in a plane to visit your relatives at christmas , when you eat mass produced food etc !

Everything you use on a daily basis , all created by others observations and scientific tools of instrumentation.
You can say you dont believe or trust others observations , but its all just an illusion , and you can keep telling yourself that day in day out , but you will never find any truth if you lie to yourself on a daily basis!

Im not trying to offend you here mate ,im just saying you were banging on about scientism , yet everything in the world we use right now everything is because of human observations , and those observations lead to standards, universal standards which can be repeated tested recorded and shared again and again and they are constant!

SO yes you can trust others observations when they ring true with your own !
that's how we have progressed as a species
science is here to lift us up and make us better and makes our lives better , not drag us downwards and back into ignorance
because thats what flat earth is doing , its making a mockery , sorry attempting to make a mockery of scientific achievement.
Trying to make science look like a cult or religion for those who refuse to grasp it.
science is a tool to illuminate humanity!

You can wield it and bring truth and light to the world , or you can linger in the shadows with the rest of the ignorant masses

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

So many beliefs, and no way of telling what might be true, or not.
Not a crack of light yet. That could manifest as doubt or questionning.

Well, at least the "shape of the Earth" question can be approached rather directly without worrying about "beliefs".

It's pretty simple: Take all of the observations a person can make (such as the motion of the Sun, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientioan of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, the effects of gravity, etc), and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

There's no reason to complicate the matter by worrying about the philosophy of it all.

That almost sounds reasonable.

There is no aim to complicate matters, but to simplify.
And you have made a solid attempt here. Good post.

Okay, so let's do it.

Take all of the observations a person can make, and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

Let's start with the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientation of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, and the observable effects of gravity on Earth.

What shape for the Earth do these observations suggest and why?

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

This is funny you just admitted that you can't explain how a flat earth would be possible.

If flat earth was true everything we know in science would have to be false. Physics,biology,chemistry and for that matter even mathematics would be entirely wrong.

But yet we have used these things to create things we use such as smart phones so the technology proves the science.

Ill ask 1 simple question if the earth is flat how does it have gravity? It couldnt be mass because that would mean the entire planet would be pulled towards the arctic. And of course gravity would be lower in australia vs say North America.

Other problem what would prevent the atmosphere from just going over the edge?

a reply to: Nothin

allong time ago - in a post far up thread - i opined that you were a troll - soley interested in mental mastrubation - and elected to ignore your babblings

everything downstream - has demonstrated that i was correct

however - this dribbling is too stunning to pass ovver :

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

so tell us - how do you navigate to a loccation you have never before vvisited ???

answer requested - simply for amusement

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Nothin

allong time ago - in a post far up thread - i opined that you were a troll - soley interested in mental mastrubation - and elected to ignore your babblings

everything downstream - has demonstrated that i was correct

however - this dribbling is too stunning to pass ovver :

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

so tell us - how do you navigate to a loccation you have never before vvisited ???

answer requested - simply for amusement

Come on..............what's the point?
Answer requested.....simply for amusement.

It's as simple as this if the Earth was flat Cats would have pushed everything over the edge.



So the Earth is a globe.

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

So many beliefs, and no way of telling what might be true, or not.
Not a crack of light yet. That could manifest as doubt or questionning.

Well, at least the "shape of the Earth" question can be approached rather directly without worrying about "beliefs".

It's pretty simple: Take all of the observations a person can make (such as the motion of the Sun, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientioan of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, the effects of gravity, etc), and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

There's no reason to complicate the matter by worrying about the philosophy of it all.

That almost sounds reasonable.

There is no aim to complicate matters, but to simplify.
And you have made a solid attempt here. Good post.

Okay, so let's do it.

Take all of the observations a person can make, and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

Let's start with the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientation of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, and the observable effects of gravity on Earth.

What shape for the Earth do these observations suggest and why?

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

Who said anything about others’ observations? The observations I mentioned could be made by anybody, which includes yourself. I intentionally picked those observations because the could be done by YOU.

So again, YOU observe the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, YOU observe the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to multiple locations and latitudes, YOU observe the orientation of the moon and constellations from different latitudes, and the YOU make observable measurements of the effects of gravity on Earth. Granted, you would need a trusted friend to help you measure parallax of the Sun and Moon, but the rest you can do on your own.

Make those observations and then explain in detail what shape of the Earth can be discerned from those observations and why. The parallax observations you and your friend make can tell you how far the Sun and Moon are (for example, is the Sun only a few thousand miles away, or millions of miles).

a reply to: wmd_2008

well that's all the evidence I need !

a reply to: wmd_2008


Case closed. You can't trump that.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nothin

#ebag isn't an insult to someone in Scotland , maybe to outsiders aye , it could seem offensive , in Scotland #ebag is what kids call each other when they dare each other to do something fun or slightly risky or just adventurous

call it what ye like , its a harmless children's taunt where I come from.

But still doesnt change the fact you are a #ebag, or to put it in plain English , you sir are afraid that the truth will end your "belief" in flat earth and you don't want to burst your own wee bubble for whatever egocentric reason .

Just keep believing the earth is flat


I mean you said you dont trust others observations , yet you lie , you sit here using a personal computer built by multiple human observations every single item you put in your hand created by others observations, when you walk down a street on paving , when you cross the street at the cross walk , when you walk across a bridge over water, when you fly in a plane to visit your relatives at christmas , when you eat mass produced food etc !

Everything you use on a daily basis , all created by others observations and scientific tools of instrumentation.
You can say you dont believe or trust others observations , but its all just an illusion , and you can keep telling yourself that day in day out , but you will never find any truth if you lie to yourself on a daily basis!

Im not trying to offend you here mate ,im just saying you were banging on about scientism , yet everything in the world we use right now everything is because of human observations , and those observations lead to standards, universal standards which can be repeated tested recorded and shared again and again and they are constant!

SO yes you can trust others observations when they ring true with your own !
that's how we have progressed as a species
science is here to lift us up and make us better and makes our lives better , not drag us downwards and back into ignorance
because thats what flat earth is doing , its making a mockery , sorry attempting to make a mockery of scientific achievement.
Trying to make science look like a cult or religion for those who refuse to grasp it.
science is a tool to illuminate humanity!

You can wield it and bring truth and light to the world , or you can linger in the shadows with the rest of the ignorant masses

Are you confused between what is observably semi-reliable, and mostly functional; and what you were calling infallible truth earlier?

How do you make these leaps between what was discussed, and your new conclusions?


..."...You can wield it and bring truth and light to the world , or you can linger in the shadows with the rest of the ignorant masses ..."...

Still can't tell the difference between your opinion and truth?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

So many beliefs, and no way of telling what might be true, or not.
Not a crack of light yet. That could manifest as doubt or questionning.

Well, at least the "shape of the Earth" question can be approached rather directly without worrying about "beliefs".

It's pretty simple: Take all of the observations a person can make (such as the motion of the Sun, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientioan of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, the effects of gravity, etc), and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

There's no reason to complicate the matter by worrying about the philosophy of it all.

That almost sounds reasonable.

There is no aim to complicate matters, but to simplify.
And you have made a solid attempt here. Good post.

Okay, so let's do it.

Take all of the observations a person can make, and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

Let's start with the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientation of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, and the observable effects of gravity on Earth.

What shape for the Earth do these observations suggest and why?

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

This is funny you just admitted that you can't explain how a flat earth would be possible.

If flat earth was true everything we know in science would have to be false. Physics,biology,chemistry and for that matter even mathematics would be entirely wrong.

But yet we have used these things to create things we use such as smart phones so the technology proves the science.

Ill ask 1 simple question if the earth is flat how does it have gravity? It couldnt be mass because that would mean the entire planet would be pulled towards the arctic. And of course gravity would be lower in australia vs say North America.

Other problem what would prevent the atmosphere from just going over the edge?

Flat-headed cats sure seem to be interested in gravity! Not me.
It simply appears to work, and who the heck can totally explain it?

Who knows what the atmosphere is doing?

Why do you find the need to explain everything?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Nothin

allong time ago - in a post far up thread - i opined that you were a troll - soley interested in mental mastrubation - and elected to ignore your babblings

everything downstream - has demonstrated that i was correct

however - this dribbling is too stunning to pass ovver :

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

so tell us - how do you navigate to a loccation you have never before vvisited ???

answer requested - simply for amusement

Sometimes use Google maps, and a few quick notes on a piece of paper.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes not, for various reasons.

What do you figure is the difference between mental masturbation, and your own personal amusement?

Your questions have been answered, even though you have not answered the last question asked of you.
Don't expect me to indulge you again, if you evade further questions, and brag about how "correct" you are.

Here is your chance for redemption, (although the context is somewhat lost):

"How do you react to Scientism believers? "

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Nothin

So many beliefs, and no way of telling what might be true, or not.
Not a crack of light yet. That could manifest as doubt or questionning.

Well, at least the "shape of the Earth" question can be approached rather directly without worrying about "beliefs".

It's pretty simple: Take all of the observations a person can make (such as the motion of the Sun, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientioan of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, the effects of gravity, etc), and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

There's no reason to complicate the matter by worrying about the philosophy of it all.

That almost sounds reasonable.

There is no aim to complicate matters, but to simplify.
And you have made a solid attempt here. Good post.

Okay, so let's do it.

Take all of the observations a person can make, and then align those observations with possible shapes of the Earth.

Let's start with the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to the location of the observe on Earth, the orientation of the moon and constellations relative to the location of the observer, the parallax effect, and the observable effects of gravity on Earth.

What shape for the Earth do these observations suggest and why?

No thanks. Am not interested in trusting others' observations, nor spending the time required to make my own charts.

Who said anything about others’ observations? The observations I mentioned could be made by anybody, which includes yourself. I intentionally picked those observations because the could be done by YOU.

So again, YOU observe the apparent motions of the Sun and Moon, YOU observe the location of the Sun and stars in the sky relative to multiple locations and latitudes, YOU observe the orientation of the moon and constellations from different latitudes, and the YOU make observable measurements of the effects of gravity on Earth. Granted, you would need a trusted friend to help you measure parallax of the Sun and Moon, but the rest you can do on your own.

Make those observations and then explain in detail what shape of the Earth can be discerned from those observations and why. The parallax observations you and your friend make can tell you how far the Sun and Moon are (for example, is the Sun only a few thousand miles away, or millions of miles).

Are you suggesting, that all that is required, would be for a person to go-outside, and sit in the same location, multiple times per day and night, and chart the procession of the sun, moon and stars.
Do this for one year, to get the full cycle, then repeat for at least two years to confirm patters.
Then repeat this at ..."...multiple locations and latitude..."...?

Locations as in at least all continents, and up and down and N & S & E & W?
Conservatively say about 12 different locations, bringing the project up to about, ohhhh, say 30 years or so?

Geeze: you make it sound so easy.

OK: just teasing. You already have heard that any kind of exercise like this doesn't interest me.

WHy do you use google , its fallible , its other peoples observations !

why are you using the internet ?
or anything else created by humans if its fallible and untrustworthy !

Your sitting using a computer , all based on observations , and science !
if you dont believe in scientism , stop using the internet and ATS , its all based on peoples fallible observation
stop typing on the keyboard designed and created by peoples observations
stop using the alphabet and the english language , see where I am going with this
every single thing you are doing in your waking daily life , all based on other humans observations
we stand on the shoulders of giants!
Although even at that height some of us still cant see the forest for the trees

and yes , all that is required is to study the night sky , without tv its easy !

how do you think our ancestors managed it , they weren't distracted, they could see the night sky as there was no light pollution! So I imagine it would be a sight to behold.

They even sat there long enough they decided to record their observations and created stone circles
and later down the line we have astronomy , and all that astrophysics is today !
They didnt often need to repeat it year in year out as they shared their observations with others!

but none of that is for you since its all fallible nonsense right

originally posted by: Nothin

Geeze: you make it sound so easy.

OK: just teasing. You already have heard that any kind of exercise like this doesn't interest me.

The ancient Greeks did it more than 2000 years ago when they realized that the Earth was a spheroid. It doesn't requiring traveling all over the world; just a little traveling and maybe help from a friend who lives a distance away.

One thing you could do yourself is noting how the distance of the North Star (Polaris) above the horizon matches you latitude as you travel north and south. Some traveling is involved, but you can do it by staying in your home continent.

Or (a more travel-intensive observation) if you ever have the occasion to travel between the Northern and Southern Hemisphere, as many millions of people have, you could note the orientation of the Moon and equatorial constellations (say, for example, Orion), and see how that orientation differs. You would need to see it for yourself, but the Moon and Orion are generally more "upside down" when comparing their orientations when viewed from Melbourne, Australia compared to Toronto, Canada.

Here's a graphic that gives a quick spheroid-Earth explanation for why:



But what is the Flat Earth explanation? And does that Flat Earth exlapanetion fit in with the other Flat Eath explanations for other observations (i.e., is the explanation internally consistent with the entire Flat Earth hypothesis)?

Nothin ,

what do you say to human observation and the truth of say cognitive disability
such as colour blindness

Tritanopes for example , born with insensitivity to the colour blue!

their truth is that they cant see contrasts of blue , that is a truth
then through other human observations with their fallible perceptions
scientism has allowed tritanopes to see the contrasts of blue with special corrective optics!

one truth from a fallacy to another truth!

and I think I am done providing fuel to the troll fire

aww the best and I hope you are bathed in the light of scientism