Flat earth theory?

originally posted by: turbonium1
You believe that an incredible force, never proven to exist, would pull everything towards Earth's core, to the surface, anyway. But in air, the force holds objects to an altitude, above the surface!



Gravity is just another lame excuse.

what a load of horse sh!t...lol

its called lift brother... look it up

try researching reality as opposed to flat earth nonsense

Your explanations hold no water... just as your flat earth would not

Oh wait I forgot theres great walls of ice at the outer edges...

a reply to: turbonium1

First, I can tell your not a pilot and really don't understand what pilots use as far as instruments. You make wild claims like pilots dont have to adjust altitude they do and depending on the equipment they have to do it many times during the flight. First thing a pilot has to do is set his altimeter before takeoff. Any airport below 18,000 feet the altimeter is set to the local barometer setting. If that is not available (at a small airport) you simply set your current altitude to the airport's elevation above sea level. So this is now ground level say our airport is 1500 ft above sea level. If you climb to 6,000 feet, you are 4,500 feet above the ground, but for separation of aircraft purposes, you are at 6,000 feet. Now terrain will vary greatly and constantly needs to be updated for flights. Lets say you went into an area that is 6000 feet above sea level our plane would crash. Luckily pilots readjust the altimeter so even though they are now 12000 ft above sea level there altimeter tells them they are 6000 ft above the ground.

And just so you know a pilot is constantly having to adjust even in level flight i read autopilots have to make about 20 adjustments per 1 minute of flight. Pilot of course don't realize they are making these adjustments because it becomes second nature. Now there is a system that avoids these adjustments during flight using radar the adjustments are still made the pilot doesnt have to do it.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Nothin

A pilot's license. Anyone in the middle class who was interested in doing it could verify it.

So you won't trust science that tells us. You won't trust someone who has actually experience and verified it.

You trust Youtubers.

Got it.

I have done it. Flown a Cessna 150 to 6k feet and even at that altitude you can see the Earth is curved at the horizon, but it seems easier to notice in a hard banked turn looking out the side window.

Of course he won't take my word for it.

If it's really a curved horizon, you claim to see from such an altitude, then why do planes measure the horizon as level, as a straight line across? No curve is used at all, which is what you claim to see....


What sort of pilot would claim to see a curved horizon which is not indicated from any instruments within his plane, that depicts the very opposite....is dreaming, or lying, or whatever, because the horizon is not curved, at any altitude flown, and if it were, all planes would have a simulated curved horizon, to match the real horizon, as curved...for that would make sense, right?

A flat, level horizon is used to measure the horizon, and it refers to the real horizon.


Another pilot, supporting the round Earth, without any instruments measuring it!

When anyone wants to measure a flight, above the Earth, instruments refer to the actual surface below....that's common sense, right?

A horizon is not shown flat, and level, to a pilot, if the horizon is curved, when viewed high above the Earth....


If a pilot follows the level, flat horizon, no matter what the altitude, it means the horizon is always level, and flat.

Planes would show a curving horizon. Not only a flat horizon.

Why show the horizon is flat, if it's curved?

If you believe a plane flies over 1800 feet of curvature on a 6 hour flight, while the instruments measure a level flight, it is actually not a level flight. It is a curved flight, over the curvature of Earth. Instruments measure the curve as level flight, but nobody knows it. Nobody learned it, ever before. Never will learn it, either.

Sure.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: turbonium1

First, I can tell your not a pilot and really don't understand what pilots use as far as instruments. You make wild claims like pilots dont have to adjust altitude they do and depending on the equipment they have to do it many times during the flight. First thing a pilot has to do is set his altimeter before takeoff. Any airport below 18,000 feet the altimeter is set to the local barometer setting. If that is not available (at a small airport) you simply set your current altitude to the airport's elevation above sea level. So this is now ground level say our airport is 1500 ft above sea level. If you climb to 6,000 feet, you are 4,500 feet above the ground, but for separation of aircraft purposes, you are at 6,000 feet. Now terrain will vary greatly and constantly needs to be updated for flights. Lets say you went into an area that is 6000 feet above sea level our plane would crash. Luckily pilots readjust the altimeter so even though they are now 12000 ft above sea level there altimeter tells them they are 6000 ft above the ground.

And just so you know a pilot is constantly having to adjust even in level flight i read autopilots have to make about 20 adjustments per 1 minute of flight. Pilot of course don't realize they are making these adjustments because it becomes second nature. Now there is a system that avoids these adjustments during flight using radar the adjustments are still made the pilot doesnt have to do it.

All of those adjustments of altitude do not account for the curvature. Think about it.

Adjusting altitude during a flight is not accounting for the curvature.

You are referring to various conditions during a flight, which adjusts altitude, where needed.

Not all flights are making those very same adjustments, obviously.

How is curvature accounted for, in all flights?

a reply to: turbonium1

When you fly a plane "straight and level", you're flying in a constant parabolic ark RELATIVE TO THE GROUND below the aircraft, not some magic flat plane (no pun intended). The curve of the earth is pretty bloody slight (1m in every 3.7km), its not taken into account because the attitude of the aircraft is constantly being adjusted due to the effects of weather, air, wind etc. The altitude reading is from ground level which curves with the earth obviously. Its not taken into account in aircraft unlike ballistics, because you can adjust your altitude on the fly! (pun intended).

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Nothin

Can you not find one simple way to observe, that elimates tools and instruments, possibly faulty measurements, potential different interpretations, conditions, limitations, or any other potentially fallible thing?

Well, that's utter bollox, obviously, but you can have - Polaris?

So we cannot trust tools and instruments etc? I hope that you do not work on engineering projects!

Don't "have" Polaris.
You can trust whatever you wish OC.
Doesn't mean that others should trust it as well.

Do you expect poeple to have the same beliefs as you?

Ya: speaking of projects, probably built a few bridges in your area... Ha-ha, JK.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nothin

Our perceptions are tools with which we make observations about the world around us !

with those observations and measurements ,we understand the world around us , and when the majority of humans observe the same thing ,we realise that we are all witnessing the same phenomenon so it must be truth!
otherwise we are all equally deluded

but now you call into question the validity of our own instrumentation , which have been once again checked and measured by humans the world over and came to a consensus and universal standards are set.

SO we cant trust our measuring instruments now ?

the same instruments that were key to the development of the machine you are using to debate the flat earth !

here is an idea, you goto somewhere extremely flat and long and do the horizon experiment with me whilst I do it in Scotland , you do it where you are and we will compare our results , you know like scientists !

How about it ?

Sure: "Our perceptions are tools with which we make observations about the world around us..."....
Imperfect, fallible tools.
They do not convey truth, they convey a guess, that is sometimes right, and sometimes wrong.

What kind of a mind-twist, does it take for someone to believe that a process that is sometimes wrong, is still speaking truth?
Don't we call that belief?

Any instrumentation element is fallible. Never perfect nor true.

Your offer is generous. Thanks, but will not accept it.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Nothin

Ignorance disguised as philosophy does not make it philosophical and it remains ignorance.

Despite what some may say, there are indeed stupid questions.

Your response to the challenge to finally at least attempt to exemplify your user name:
..."Can you not find one simple way to observe, that elimates tools and instruments, possibly faulty measurements, potential different interpretations, conditions, limitations, or any other potentially fallible thing?

Why can you not eliminate these things, and reduce your presentation?
You know: like Occam's razor suggests? ",

Is reduced to you claiming ignorance and stupidity?

originally posted by: Badams
a reply to: turbonium1

When you fly a plane "straight and level", you're flying in a constant parabolic ark RELATIVE TO THE GROUND below the aircraft, not some magic flat plane (no pun intended). The curve of the earth is pretty bloody slight (1m in every 3.7km), its not taken into account because the attitude of the aircraft is constantly being adjusted due to the effects of weather, air, wind etc. The altitude reading is from ground level which curves with the earth obviously. Its not taken into account in aircraft unlike ballistics, because you can adjust your altitude on the fly! (pun intended).

A plane flies level, or ascends, or descends, in air.

Pressure in atmosphere decides a flight being level, or not,


Not the surface below it.

Now what ?

originally posted by: John0101
a reply to: Nothin

What about the sunlight hitting the bottoms of cloud-cover on sunset? You can see this to happen fairly often.. and it's beautiful to observe, too!

How can that happen in flat earth model?

What about it?
Appears beautiful indeed!

Don't know. Perhaps you should ask Ig-Ape, whom appears to be some kind of FE expert?

a reply to: turbonium1

Indeed, pressure which is relative to the sensors proximity to the ground. You know, how air pressure decreases as you gain altitude?

a reply to: Nothin

"Ya: speaking of projects, probably built a few bridges in your area... Ha-ha, JK."


You didn't build a certain bridge in Italy, by any chance?

a reply to: turbonium1

Planes do not fly to maintain a constant altitude. You simply have no clue what you are talking about. They maintain barometric pressure. Every pilot will tell you adjustments are made and the Earth being round not flat is 100% accounted for.

a reply to: Nothin

They convey information , with which we can assess and share and understand.

How do you think we got to where we are , using those "imperfect tools"

but when millions of us using the same tools, share the same results, the only conclusion we can find is truth!
or mass delusion !


as for the offer to share our results , why do you decline ?
I thought this was a way we can share our imperfect tool measurements and see what it means !

Yes I understand nothing is perfect and nothing can be 100% certain , apart from death and taxes!

But this si where our intelligence comes into play , If i measure something and get a result and you measure the same thing and get a result and we share , then we know that these measure ments are the same, if we measure something the same and I get a differnt result then I know that either you or I needs to re-calibrate their instruments !

and we re-measure and re-record and re-share our data!

we then come to an agreement about what the data is telling us

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Nothin

"Ya: speaking of projects, probably built a few bridges in your area... Ha-ha, JK."


You didn't build a certain bridge in Italy, by any chance?

Oh the memories: those nights frolicking in Genoa, with Gina Lollobrigida... (JK).

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04 a reply to: Nothin A pilot's license. Anyone in the middle class who was interested in doing it could verify it. So you won't trust science that tells us. You won't trust someone who has actually experience and verified it. You trust Youtubers. Got it.

I have done it. Flown a Cessna 150 to 6k feet and even at that altitude you can see the Earth is curved at the horizon, but it seems easier to notice in a hard banked turn looking out the side window. Of course he won't take my word for it.

If it's really a curved horizon, you claim to see from such an altitude, then why do planes measure the horizon as level, as a straight line across? No curve is used at all, which is what you claim to see.... What sort of pilot would claim to see a curved horizon which is not indicated from any instruments within his plane, that depicts the very opposite....is dreaming, or lying, or whatever, because the horizon is not curved, at any altitude flown, and if it were, all planes would have a simulated curved horizon, to match the real horizon, as curved...for that would make sense, right? A flat, level horizon is used to measure the horizon, and it refers to the real horizon. Another pilot, supporting the round Earth, without any instruments measuring it! When anyone wants to measure a flight, above the Earth, instruments refer to the actual surface below....that's common sense, right? A horizon is not shown flat, and level, to a pilot, if the horizon is curved, when viewed high above the Earth.... If a pilot follows the level, flat horizon, no matter what the altitude, it means the horizon is always level, and flat. Planes would show a curving horizon. Not only a flat horizon. Why show the horizon is flat, if it's curved? If you believe a plane flies over 1800 feet of curvature on a 6 hour flight, while the instruments measure a level flight, it is actually not a level flight. It is a curved flight, over the curvature of Earth. Instruments measure the curve as level flight, but nobody knows it. Nobody learned it, ever before. Never will learn it, either. Sure.

Absolute RUBBISH!

It is easy to know that you are not a pilot. An "Artificial Horizon" indicator is not put in an airplane to represent the curvature of the Earth!
It is there to tell a pilot if he is flying straight and level, or climbing, or descending. Also shows banking turn in descent and banking turn in ascent.THAT is it's only purpose.
But just to show your argument is baseless:

An artificial horizon, (attitude indicator) with a curved horizon.
How will you explain this? "The designer of that instrument must have been a crazy round earth theorist"?

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Nothin

They convey information , with which we can assess and share and understand.

How do you think we got to where we are , using those "imperfect tools"

but when millions of us using the same tools, share the same results, the only conclusion we can find is truth!
or mass delusion !


as for the offer to share our results , why do you decline ?
I thought this was a way we can share our imperfect tool measurements and see what it means !

Yes I understand nothing is perfect and nothing can be 100% certain , apart from death and taxes!

But this si where our intelligence comes into play , If i measure something and get a result and you measure the same thing and get a result and we share , then we know that these measure ments are the same, if we measure something the same and I get a differnt result then I know that either you or I needs to re-calibrate their instruments !

and we re-measure and re-record and re-share our data!

we then come to an agreement about what the data is telling us

"How do you think we got to where we are , using those "imperfect tools""...

So where are we?
Has the supposed 'scientific Truth', that some are toting in this thread, led us to infalibility?

Infallible bridges? Infallible nuclear power-plants? Infallible cars?

Infallible whatever that last high-tech gadget you bought, that broke-down before you expected?

Any frigging Infallible thing that you can think of?

That technology is: amazing, fantastic, life-saving, experience-enhancing, and life-extending, is hard to argue against.
But is it infallible truth?

If we observe this physical universe, is it not common to see entropy?
If so: how could an Infallible thing exist in said universe?
But alas: perhaps even our perceptions are fallible, as have been trying to point-out?


~~ Have we, with or without any tool, ever created anything Infallible, perfect? ~~

Will saying yes to that last question, lead to truth, belief, or other?
What would it mean to say no to that question?

What fallible source of info, or anything, could ever lead to any kind of truth?

Again: you are very kind with your offers, but will decline.
Agreements and consensus are nice, but am not seeking such.

a reply to: Nothin

you bang on about finding truth yet when offered to share truth you decline ,

says it all really ! (at this point we should all just embrace that which we so often deny at ATS , Ignorance )
because you should be ignored because its repetitive , you fail to acknowledge that which is already truth to support a wild theory , which you cant prove, and are "unwilling " to prove

Also I have to love flat earth people using aeroplanes to debunk spherical earth

why do you think gyroscopes were invented!

humans cant create anything which is perfect as there is no such thing as "perfect" its an abstract idealist concept of reality.

Thing is no one is saying science is infallible accept you!
we all agree (accept you) that science is a continual process of illumination to find the truth of the matter so to speak.
Scientists will continually search for the answers if the currently held theories are challenged and its always update and improved with more truth.

And yes we humans have created infallible items, Art , art never fails to inspire or provoke emotional reaction in humans
we have also created many things in our history which never fail , easy one for you the spirit level !
There are many many things we have made that never fail to provide truth!

the abacus !

a thermometer

that's just off the top of my head !


If I said no that , then id be a liar !

why would anyone use a fallible source of info to find truth ?
unless using it to contrast between two things, in which case using a fallible source of info to contrast with a truthful source of info then brings further truth through illumination!


So ask yourself your own question " why would you use a fallible source of info to find truth"
i.e. youtube videos of flat earth

a reply to: Nothin

Ok I call you on that infallible truth !

A logic gate , with outputs of 1 or 0 made from a diode or a transistor !

a reply to: Nothin


I find your lack of logic disturbing.