Older black man's unexpected view of the South

a reply to: Oldtimer2

Exactly as for the slavery thing, how far back are we willing to look , should europeans seek justice from the Roman empire for their involvement in slavery , should we seek justice for our ancestors who were enslaved when we were hunter gatherers ?

As for that asshole rapper who portrayed a young white male being hung , because he wanted white people to see how shocking it is , what like white Europeans weren't already disgusted by seeing children hanging or being beheaded during the last 1000 or so years . Was he not aware of his own american history when they hung white children for witchcraft

a reply to: sapien82
How far back sayz u??? How about as far back as those who flag wave Confederate cloth, losses their sht over statues and pine away for the good ol dayz.

a reply to: Spider879

but its selectively destroying history , thats what im saying

are we going to demolish all of our Scottish statutes and monuments to our freedom fighters against the English because they fought a war against the crown.

No , because that is silly and erasing history is wrong .

Yes they represented criminals and traitors to the Union , but in the eyes of the confederates they were a divided nations of states and they had a right to revolt against the government and their tryanny right ?
, Cromwell hasnt had his statues removed in the UK and he was a traitor to the crown and killed many men
etc his statutes still stand .

We even have Guy Fawkes statue in the UK and he tried to end our parliament , we learn from our mistakes and our history , it seems our american cousions well at least a large percentage of them are so inclined to erase that history good or bad and remove it completely from our consciousness and prevent us from making the same mistakes.
The south and confederate flag wavers are only doing us a favour and reminding us that slavery existed and was fought for.
and that rebellion regardless of the reasons is possible . So go ahead and remove that from the collective memory of the US and the world.

it's their history as much as its anyone else in america, and erasing history is exactly what the nazi party done, as do ISIS
so the so called libertarians for social justice are nothing better than ISIS or the nazi party erasing history to control the future.

Pathetic self entitled assholes

a reply to: sapien82


Im going to say it again, much of those statues have nothing to do with so called heritage as they were made decades after the war and against the wishes of Lee himself, in fact they were created to intimidate Blk folks during the era of Jim Crow this fact have been burnt into the minds of the Blk collective for over 70yrs as symbols of not only their oppression during slavery but after..during the humiliating period of Jim Crow.. What's so hard to understand.

a reply to: Spider879

I can see the difference , I never knew they were specifically created as symbols of oppression.

Im sure the artists that made them didnt have that in mind , more the people who paid for their creation and erection.

, how do you know which statues were created as figures of oppression though and which ones werent unless specifically stated?

To some a statue of someone either famous or infamous will offend at least a few people, and you cant please everyone.
but we have to placate torch wielding , pitchfork crowds ?

I was born and raised in the north Mostly PA area .
when I was 19 I moved to Florida and the difference amazed me .

Wile things up north may have changed in the last 35 years growing up whites and blacks Kept them selfs segregated more then the Government ever did . In school blacks sat in there own groups and whites as well the school did noting to create this nore enforce it in anyway .

Most of the people black or white secretly hated other group Or not so secret .
When i was 14 I met a black man and wife who I respected and my own father being raciest ( unknown to me )
came to me one day and said I always though all black people were worthless but I met your friend and he is a good person .

Dont know what shocked me more finding out my father was racist or seeing him change that view .

anyway when I got top Florida it was totally different People talked freelee with each other color just did not seam to matter ( o i am not saying there arent any fools here but not nearly as common so rare as a matter of fact I can count haters of color i ever met on one hand .

The town I lived in for 25 years so small no traffic light even and mixed darn near half and half two time the KKK showed up tring to hand out there garbage two times every one ignored them to the point they only stayed 2 hours and gave up .


Blacks and whites we know a fool is a fool no matter what color tehre skin is Our old white police cheff was one teh new black police was not he did not care if your were black of white cause trouble you are busted no OO im am so black pass with him no o i am so white pass with him .

A fine man .

People who talk down about the south are the biggest fools of them all the best way to deal with a fool is ignore them .

From one who lived in both worlds

a reply to: sapien82

At the base plaque of one of lee's statues is a clear dedication to white supramacy, in bold bronze relief.

Yes white and supremacy is actually on the plaque.

a reply to: Spider879

Well id have to say that its a piece of # art in my opinion, but isnt freedom of expression protected by your own constitution and that includes all public works of art , whether in bad taste or not ?

In the UK we dont have that , we have hate /speech laws which prevent expression of opinions which can cause racial hatred and threat of violence etc

So you cant express your racial hateful opinions if they lead to a crime etc

The whole reactionary fear of the Confederate flag is simply based in ignorance. Symbols are just that, symbols, and they are inherently no more evil than what they mean to the person displaying them. For example, as some of you may know, the swastika is an ancient religious symbol and is still used today in its original religious context, despite it being perverted by the Nazis. People who don't know this might incorrectly assume that folks still using it in its religious context are evil Nazis. Are they? No. The uninformed person is just wrong, and if anyone needs to make a change to resolve this situation it is them. They should educate themselves about the true history of the swastika and that it's not always an evil symbol, and respect the rights and privacy of individuals using it for whatever reason, especially if its a non-hateful reason.

In the same manner, it is profoundly ignorant to assume anyone who displays the Confederate flag is a racist. That's more a measure of your own character than theirs. The notion that it is inherently a "symbol of hate" is demonstrably false. It may be a symbol of hate to some people but to others it is merely a symbol of heritage, among other inane and harmless things that won't help certain people fundraise. It's a matter of historical fact that the Confederacy was not only about slavery, and to some Confederates the issue of slavery wasn't even a factor in their decision to fight. If you do not know this or choose to ignore it, that's your problem. No one else should have to bend over backwards to accommodate your ignorance.

Anything can be a symbol of hate. What's the threshold at which we ban it? Who decides this? Are we gonna do surveys and studies to establish if we've reached this threshold? KKK members wore a lot of white. Is anyone wearing white racist? Do we ban white clothes? Actually, while we're at it, they're wearing clothes to begin with. Clothes must be racist, and anyone who wears clothes has something in common with the KKK. I suggest we ban those.

What happens when something you hold dear is mischaracterized and there are calls to ban it?

Disclaimer: No I don't own a confederate flag. Or a swastika. And I'm not from the south.

a reply to: sapien82

Destroying them would be bad, placing them in a museum under the proper context of what they actually represent ,I have no problem with.

a reply to: face23785

they are being unconstitutional and un-american by not allowing them to freely hold their opinions whether racist or bigoted or not
they are being unpatriotic , I thought there was nothing more vile in america than someone who doesnt love america

I completely agree with you

a reply to: Spider879

Whilst that is a good idea, its un-american to prevent someone from expressing themselves freely whether it causes hate or not , its America land of the free.
Just because a percentage of the US are offended by it ,its protected by the constitution , that was the great thing about america , everyone was allowed to have their freedoms of religion and political opinion and opinion on life in general without oppression from others or government.

The south were able to revolt because they were told they were by the constitution , but they were defeated , they felt the current government were being unjust or tyrannical so they revolted. Unless i'm wrong , their right to rebel is protected is it not ?

a reply to: face23785

No problem if someone wanna have it on their property, or running around in bed sheets U Do U boo, but if the community and city elders decided it's no longer appropriate just as those who did 70yrs ago
.zero tears shed here.

a reply to: sapien82

When I was a kid in NYC some liberal douch made a sculpture of Jesus out of sht, no one was for that and it got removed promptly, another thing Confederate flags flying on state buildings, try flying an ISIS flag anywhere much less on top of any state building.
As to the Rebs they had their own country for four years, they were by definition anything but Americans during that time.

a reply to: Spider879

not according to them they were as american as it gets it was the others that had lost their way

it's a matter of perspective is it not?

Im sure if someone in america wanted to fly an ISIS flag they would be protected constitutionally as is the american way , but whether it would remain flying is another matter.

Is it morally right to fly a flag which represents hate ? That is a matter for philosophers to discuss it is a matter of relativism , although America seems to be full of raging emotivists.

I think its great that America is the only place in the world where you can freely express your opinion and not be locked up for it, it truly is unlike any other country on earth, right or wrong well that is a matter of opinion