Couple Dies in Double Euthanasia After 65 Years of Marriage

originally posted by: silo13
Because we're not animals.

So it's okay to euthanize your pet to prevent from suffering but we need to suffer unnecessarily?

We also euthenize animals because of overpopulation, no one wants them anymore, they're not cute, they bark too much...

See the connection? Probably not.

No, because they are two separate issue and not related.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
I've said this so many times after watching some relatives die an agonizing death due to cancer. I have no problem with euthanizing people when all treatments have been exhausted or their quality of life has been drastically diminished to the point where they're mentally incoherent and/or in chronic pain.

I think it is highly hypocritical to want to prevent your pet form suffering but if some stranger, whose pain you do not know, want to die you tell them no, it's wrong.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
I know my grandmother would have agreed, before her alzheimers and dementia got so bad she didn't know when, where, what or who she was.

I'm not going the dementia route, losing my physical abilities are one thing but what makes me, me is my mental faculties. Once they're gone, I'm not me anymore and who gives a crap what I do.

originally posted by: silo13

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

We euthanize our pets to help ease their suffering. Why should a human be forced to suffer when we don't even reserve that ignominy for our beloved pets?

Because we're not animals.

We also euthenize animals because of overpopulation, no one wants them anymore, they're not cute, they bark too much...

See the connection? Probably not.

peace

This was this couple's wish and I for one am glad they didn't suffer and were able to CHOSE the time and means of their departure. I don't want to die alone among strangers and don't wish it for anyone else.

Honoring life is measured by lack of suffering not the number of breathes taken.

originally posted by: silo13

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

We euthanize our pets to help ease their suffering. Why should a human be forced to suffer when we don't even reserve that ignominy for our beloved pets?

Because we're not animals.

Hmmmm we fit the definition of a mammal. A mammal is an animal, therefore humans (homo sapien sapien) is an animal.

You're wrong.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Our suffering of great pain, illness, chronic disease, end stage cancer, non treatable depression etc..IS A GIFT! DON'T YOU SEE THAT! OPEN YOUR EYES.

We are animals who make our own decisions, we can decide if we live or die, we pick for our pets because they do not have the ability to ask us of that choice, however we can pick our own.

This is a crap thread that will get the op barely any support, for very good reasons.

I think euthanasia should be an option in the following conditions:
1) The person is suffering from an incurable illness
2) As a result of the illness, their quality of life must be severely compromised by physical anguish that cannot be properly treated with medicine

There's lots of gray area in those two statements. But I support them as general guidelines.

Therefore, I would support an elderly person suffering from an incurable disease ending their own life (with assistance), but I wouldn't support the spouse doing the same thing if they just wanted to go along for the ride.

originally posted by: MuonToGluon
Our suffering of great pain, illness, chronic disease, end stage cancer, non treatable depression etc..IS A GIFT! DON'T YOU SEE THAT! OPEN YOUR EYES.

Yeah, a gift from God or something like that.

God doesn't have an issue with euthanizing your beloved pet but if you decide the pain is too great for your own suffering God is no longer a happy camper. I just don't get it.

Euthanasia is a tough one for me, I get both sides of the argument. I guess for me, what it really comes down to, is it's up to the person and their situation. My grandmother and my grandfather were married 55 years before he passed in 2004. My grandmother just passed last May, and it was the best thing that could have happened for her. She often said her life began when she married my pap and it ended the day he died.

Nursing homes make you question why some people are still alive, I know that sounds morbid, but for the most part these people are largely forgotten, lonely, are alive by medical standards, but it isn't life anymore. I'm not advocating that these people should be euthanized or anything like that, I'm just saying if that's what they chose, I get it.

I visited my grandmother once a week in her nursing home for the last few years of her life. She hated it. When she passed I was cleaning out her room and looking through her things, before her handwriting got illegible she kept a diary and the most common theme was "why am i still alive"? She wanted to go, she was in constant pain physically and mentally, "living" in a place where she had to share a room, eat crappy food, couldn't walk on her own, and was at the mercy of just a few workers. She hated her life there and when she went, I was happy for her, her suffering was over.

In regards to your post, a part of me says good for them. They went out on their own accord and with each other, there's far worse ways to go. I doubt I would have the "courage" to do what they did, but I know I wouldn't want to live the way my gram did there at the end. Alone and miserable, praying for death.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Honoring life is measured by lack of suffering not the number of breathes taken.

Really? So by following that logic - 'Wow, I'm so bummed my girlfriend dumped me. Oh woa is me! I'll just get euthanized'...

peace

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MuonToGluon
Our suffering of great pain, illness, chronic disease, end stage cancer, non treatable depression etc..IS A GIFT! DON'T YOU SEE THAT! OPEN YOUR EYES.

Yeah, a gift from God or something like that.

God doesn't have an issue with euthanizing your beloved pet but if you decide the pain is too great for your own suffering God is no longer a happy camper. I just don't get it.

What's there not to get? We are designed a time to be born - not our choice - and by God's standards it's not our choice to when we die.

peace

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: silo13

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

We euthanize our pets to help ease their suffering. Why should a human be forced to suffer when we don't even reserve that ignominy for our beloved pets?

Because we're not animals.

Hmmmm we fit the definition of a mammal. A mammal is an animal, therefore humans (homo sapien sapien) is an animal.

You're wrong.

A better way to put that is 'In my opinion, you are wrong' - because honestly that's all you have is an opinion.

Do you even know the fundamental differences between humans and animals? Or are you basing your OPINION on we are mammals who suckle milk when we're babies? Anything else?

I'll toss a few at you supporting my opinion (though I believe it's a truth) that human's are not more animals than your pet turtle could do the hokey-pokey.

We have forethought and rational thinking.

We cry - they can't.

We know a creator - they do not (as far as we know but I'm not sure I support this one), what I should say is we were born to need a creator, someone/something to follow.

Our greatest need is to be loved and to give love in return. Animals? Not so much.

I wasn't finished but here's a few I hadn't gotten to yet...

1. Generative computation
Humans can generate a practically limitless variety of words and concepts. We do so through two modes of operation recursive and combinatorial. The recursive operation allows us to apply a learned rule to create new expressions. In combinatorial operations, we mix different learned elements to create a new concept.

2. Promiscuous combination of ideas
"Promiscuous combination of ideas," Hauser explained, "allows the mingling of different domains of knowledge such as art, sex, space, causality and friendship thereby generating new laws, social relationships and technologies."

3. Mental symbols

Mental symbols are our way of encoding sensory experiences. They form the basis of our complex systems of language and communication. We may choose to keep our mental symbols to ourselves, or represent them to others using words or pictures.

4. Abstract thought

Abstract thought is the contemplation of things beyond what we can sense. "This is not to say that our mental faculties sprang fully formed out of nowhere," Hauser wrote. "Researchers have found some of the building blocks of human cognition in other species. But these building blocks make up only the cement foot print of the skyscraper that is the human mind. The evolutionary origins of our cognitive abilities thus remain rather hazy. Clarity is emerging from novel insights and experimental technologies, however."

Anyway - the point I'm suggesting?

TPTB want us to believe we're animals. Nothing more, and a lot less.

Once we suck up to that mind set? We're nothing but cattle to them.

Do you really want to be a cattle or do you want to use the brain God gave you and wake up to the fact YOU ARE MORE. And if you allow them to make you think you're not? Get in the euthanazia line - one more person to subtract from THEIR DEPOPULATION SCHEME!

You were created in the image of your Creator.

No, you're not an animal.

peace

originally posted by: silo13

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MuonToGluon
Our suffering of great pain, illness, chronic disease, end stage cancer, non treatable depression etc..IS A GIFT! DON'T YOU SEE THAT! OPEN YOUR EYES.

Yeah, a gift from God or something like that.

God doesn't have an issue with euthanizing your beloved pet but if you decide the pain is too great for your own suffering God is no longer a happy camper. I just don't get it.

What's there not to get? We are designed a time to be born - not our choice - and by God's standards it's not our choice to when we die.

peace

If you can prove that, I'll believe you.

Until then, keep your fairy tale god who endorses rape, killing and slavery to yourself.

ETA: If you believe in an Abrahamic god, you believe in free will. That means we have free will to decide if we want to be euthanised.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

If you can prove that, I'll believe you.

Until then, keep your fairy tale god who endorses rape, killing and slavery to yourself.

ETA: If you believe in an Abrahamic god, you believe in free will. That means we have free will to decide if we want to be euthanised.

Did tou choose to be born. You. Not your parents. Did you choose to be born?

Oh now you're going to beat the drum of God being such a monster. Shows you don't know a thing - just jumping on the ignorant bandwagon of parroting other's egoistic theories.

Or am I assuming? Have you ever studied the bible?

And - why should I 'keep it to myself'?

We have free will, yes I agree. We have free will to reject Him, to kill ourselves, to kill others, whatever.

But expressing our free will doesn't make it right.

On point a buit more - In my opinion this is TPTB first attempt and normalizing suicide. Call it what you want, you're just falling into the trap of TPTB romanticizing suicide.

You do know 'their' (TPTB) goal is to wipe out most of the population, right?

So hey, why not. Let's make suicide into a fad, make it look beautiful and empathetic, a lovely way to go where you're IN CONTROL BABY - straight into the pits a hell and TPTB laugh their asses off at you all the while getting your bed ready for the next sucker.

peace

a reply to: silo13

So your whole argument against euthanasia is TPTB want us to do it?

Let's keep everyone alive. Half a head missing and in excruciating pain? Tough. You're staying alive.

Born in severe pain and no way of ever being pain free or living longer than a year? Tough. Little baby has to suck it up and live in pain.

Guts falling out and have a huge untreatable infection? Tough. Enjoy the pain before you die.

While we're at it, let's get rid of medication, doctors and any way to help you. You'll just have to suffer like the animal you are.

I watched my father, my mother, and my grandmother waste away with nothing to be done for them.

I've watched friends waste away. I can understand wanting to end the suffering, and allow them to pass with dignity. After all, we do that, as has been pointed out, to our four footed family and friends? The thought process is much the same, and the emotions.

Personally, it would not be my choice, save in the instance of dementia--that may be my greatest fear, losing myself (and spiders) inside of myself. There, I would pull my own plug.

But I also hold what is perhaps an incompatible belief that where there is life, there is also hope. Medical treatments are improving by the day, and who knows what new and incredible treatments are just around the corner?

It's a personal decision. If we have the right to day to day determination of our own fates, then too, we also have the right to shuffle off this mortal coil.

originally posted by: silo13
What's there not to get? We are designed a time to be born - not our choice - and by God's standards it's not our choice to when we die.

peace

We have free will and free will enables us to end our suffering if we so choose. If God didn't want people doing these things then we would have been automatons.

a reply to: TerryDon79

So your whole argument against euthanasia is TPTB want us to do it?

Nope. My belief is we were born to live, and to die and it wasn't up to us when we were born and it's not supposed to be up to us when we die.

Beyond that? I believe society is being sucked into the romantisism of euthenasia as a means to 'make it ok' to commit suicide becuase the TPTB don't want us here, want us dead, so let them kill themselves who cares.

Like the extermination of babies with Down's Syndrome. Iceland has nearly eradicated Down's Syndrome children. Source

If you can't produce you loose. Kill 'ya before you even take a breath.

It's ramapant everywhere - and people are embrasing it like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Willing Ignorance at it's best in my opinion.

peace

a reply to: silo13

So your belief is what's driving your rants against medical euthanasia under certain circumstances?

I think we shouldn't be allowed to drive because of my belief that it harms santas reindeer.

I am pretty sure there are no scriptures stating directly suicide is a sin. It does of murder, but then gives circumstances where it was acceptable?!? WHAT? lol

Pretty sure the sins that are a very clearly defined too are forgivable as per the New Testament. I am sure there was suicide in Jesus' time and actually there are several examples in the bible without comments on the outcome so why was this not addressed?

I am guessing because we don't get to judge who is truly righteous and who is not and again that is directly stated. But I rarely think Christians read more then the cliff notes of the Bible...