Air India vs FAA

Air India is upset with the FAA, and they aren't holding back about it. On Friday, Air India flight 126, from Chicago to Delhi was delayed up to 8 hours after a surprise FAA inspection. The inspection resulted in 44 passenger seats and 12 crew seats being put out of service for seat belt problems.

The problem with the belts? They were missing the Technical Standard Order number tag that is sewn onto the belt. The belts themselves were undamaged, but since they were missing the tag, and the flight was full, they had to fly belts in from another aircraft in New York and install them.

Air India didn't hold back after the incident.

The seat belts were perfectly fine. Only some had tags worn out. This is an instance of impractical or irrelevant stipulations being imposed on Air India by FAA.

A senior AI official said that FAA is subjecting the Maharaja’s aircraft to stringent checks at all the stations it flies to — New York JFK and Newark, Chicago, Washington and San Francisco. “The checks have intensified in the recent past. While technically FAA was correct in pointing out the missing TSO tags, we told them that new seat belts have been ordered and the old ones will be replaced very soon. Still the aircraft was not allowed to take off till we got some belts from another of our aircraft in New York,” said the official.

viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com...

Our tax money at work.

We're safe from tagless seatbelts!!

Meh, why follow rules or laws? Let's make the airports that India flies into a safe haven from pesky FAA regulations. We'll make them sanctuary airports.

Is this common place?

Lose a cargo door or engine and get extra time to do changes.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Sounds like the Anal Retentive FAA inspector has struck again.

I get that there are regulations. But to kick passengers out of the seats?

No cool.

a reply to: cosmania

I don't have a problem with the FAA doing their job, but seriously, what would the harm be in a one time flight without the tags. The tags don't suddenly make the belts stop working. Authorize a one time flight, next time it arrives do an inspection and if the problem wasn't fixed, then levy a fine and ground it until they're replaced.

My big problem with the FAA is their lack of consistency. They'll bend over backwards to protect the big US airlines and give them basically as much time as they want to fix problems that have resulted in major damage to the aircraft, and killed passengers, but they won't let an airline from another country depart because it's missing a tag on a seat belt.

Quality control.

Have you ever seen what they do to a bus? Have seen a train with people riding on top? Have you seen a crowded Indian street let alone drive on it? Have you ever ridden with an Indian driver in the US? The notion of rules and laws are only loosely followed.

I don't see why they kicked people off the plane; they could have issued a warning or fined them besides doing that action.

But I still stand for quality control and obeying laws. Go FAA!

Imagine if the FAA was in charge of Mattress tags as well.

gives me cold chills.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

They didn't kick them off, they took belts off another flight that wasn't full and flew them to Chicago. After they were replaced with the same belts that had the tags, they were allowed to depart.

There was another incident I read about where the airline put colored rings around circuit breakers. They didn't interfere with the operation, they simply helped the overnight guys identify which breakers were tied to what system quickly. The FAA inspector refused to allow the aircraft to depart while the pilot argued, and even showed a picture of an FAA authorized breaker with a colored ring around it. They were finally allowed to depart after the pilot demanded the inspector show the regulation that says they can't have rings around them.

If this was the first offense, it should have resulted in notification being sent to the airline and Indian counterpart to the FAA for enforcement. It should NOT have resulted in grounding without a damn good reason.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Must have misread that. My bad.

Must muck up the system to sit a plane. It is called a schedule for a reason!

A seatbelt tag is a little heavy handed. Like the death penalty for parking tickets (Steve Martin).

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I get the whole regulation thing, and agree with it. But regulation should make sense. Grounding a plane for missing seat belt tags doesn't. Like you said, it's the death penalty for parking tickets.

originally posted by: cosmania
Meh, why follow rules or laws? Let's make the airports that India flies into a safe haven from pesky FAA regulations. We'll make them sanctuary airports.

Well, I agree that the regulations are in place for a reason, but would this not be a case where a citation, a warning, or something of the like would be the proper reaction to the violation?

a reply to: DupontDeux

It's what you THINK would happen anyway. Especially if they already have the belts on order and can prove it. This was a case of overkill, without a damn good reason being put forward.

originally posted by: seagull
Our tax money at work.

We're safe from tagless seatbelts!!

No, we're safe from what could very well have been counterfeit parts. We have seen a huge increase in non TSO/non PMA parts being used. Compliant parts must bear the TSO tag or PMA stamp showing that they meet the specifications of National Aircraft Standard (NAS) 809, or TSO-C 127, which incorporates the available design criteria, tests, and acceptance criteria of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Aerospace Standard (AS) 8049. An operator that puts profits ahead of safety can buy a TSO'd seat belt for $114 each or put in a non-tagged non-compliant auto belt for $16 each. A bunch of suppliers have been convicted for selling counterfeit parts. The excuse of, "the tags wore off" sounds a lot like, "the dog ate my homework."

a reply to: F4guy

When I used to do plane search, I saw a lot of seat belt tags that were starting to come off. Most of them were just starting to tear and were only missing the stitching in the corner, but some were barely attached. They come off, it happens.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Is there an ulterior motive here?

"A senior AI official said that FAA is subjecting the Maharaja’s aircraft to stringent checks at all the stations it flies to — New York JFK and Newark, Chicago, Washington and San Francisco. “The checks have intensified in the recent past."

Maybe the checks are an excuse to search the aircraft? The US and India work closely on terrorism issues.

a reply to: Doxanoxa

There could be. It would be a good way to check. It also could relate to unconfirmed reports that cannibalizing is rampant at Air India. There were reports that some of their 787s that had technical problems were having parts removed to keep other 787s flying.

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: cosmania
Meh, why follow rules or laws? Let's make the airports that India flies into a safe haven from pesky FAA regulations. We'll make them sanctuary airports.

Well, I agree that the regulations are in place for a reason, but would this not be a case where a citation, a warning, or something of the like would be the proper reaction to the violation?

Under the regulations, an aircraft is not airworthy unless it fullt meets all requirements of the Type Certificate data Sheet and all parts, even seatbelts must be compliant with the TSOs set in the Type Certificate. You can't take off in an unairworthy aircraft. I'd hate to have a 1G seatbelt in 3G turbulance or an 8G crash.

a reply to: F4guy

I can understand that. I worked in an industry that requires stringent safety standards, as it deals with the production of food.

The fines involved in not complying with those standards are, to put it mildly, extremely expensive--the least was 10,000 USD, the most was, if I recall correctly, 35,000 USD--for each violation. I was, thankfully only for a short time, a compliance officer, so I'm aware of the issues, or similar. You really don't want to be the guy on the other end of the phone from the company CEO trying to explain why the summers profits from your plant just went ((((POOF!!!!)))). They tend towards cranky...

There should have been a warning issued. With check back the next time the plane was in the ConUS. I have no idea how much money Air India lost with that, but it was probably somewhat substantial.

This was an over-reaction on the part of the FAA, unless Air India has been in violation of these standards on multiple occasions...have they?

When I was doing my apprenticeship 20 + years ago we called it "Scare India"..
A 737 we were called out on was tagged some rivets loose on cowling..Our report was "which ones as they all had black rings around them"