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As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul

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posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 02:20 PM
This question seems simple however I would like to dig deeper into this idea. I would also like to see a revival of this forum.

By changing ourselves do we change the world.

Initially my answer is yes of course however, am I changing the world around me or my world changing? Do I manifest an entirely new paradigm around me or am I simply just changing the way I interact with the world?

I am going to assert that I literally change my paradigm or shift my paradigm by changing myself. I believe that all live within individual universe that we interface subjectively according to our inner mind.

As within so without, as above so below.


“As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…” Hermes Trismegistus

The Hermetic philosophy.

Hermes Trismegistus

Both Hermes and Thoth were gods of writing and of magic in their respective cultures.[citation needed] Hermes, the Greek god of interpretive communication, was combined with Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom, to become the patron of astrology and alchemy. In addition, both gods were psychopomps, guiding souls to the afterlife.


The Hermetica are Egyptian-Greek wisdom texts from the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD,[1] which are mostly presented as dialogues in which a teacher, generally identified as Hermes Trismegistus ("thrice-greatest Hermes"), enlightens a disciple. The texts form the basis of Hermeticism. They discuss the divine, the cosmos, mind, and nature. Some touch upon alchemy, astrology, and related concepts.

So anyway, what do you think of the alleged quote of Hermes and the idea of changing the outer world (or experience of the world and please make the argument of the difference) by changing the inner world?
edit on 6-8-2017 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 02:44 PM
I don't think as above so below meant that the spirit realm is 'run' like we run our establishment here. Could you imagine?

This world system is run by greedy, selfish control freaks, whose only goal is to enslave everyone to a lifetime of indebtedness, to them.

This is not 'civilized' behavior, nor is it like 'above' or 'over there'.


posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 02:57 PM
a reply to: intrptr

I think "as above so below, as within so without" is more of a personal experience.

For instance.

If I inwardly decide to educate myself go to school and acquire a better skillset I outwardly change the world around me by being around different people, having more money and generally more than likely enjoying a better world.

Does that mean I literally changed the world or just changed the world around me and what does that really mean?

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:46 PM
a reply to: toysforadults

Here comes the party pooper:

“Everything is wearisome beyond description. No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content.

History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new.

Sometimes people say, “Here is something new!” But actually it is old; nothing is ever truly new. We don’t remember what happened in the past, and in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now.”

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭1:8-11‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Why change? We have been trying to change from the beginning and still we get nowhere.

The only thing worth changing is our position from arogant change makers to humble servants of God. Then we could stop chasing our tails and begin to see some progress.

We seem to be really good at messing things up that were intend to be used for good. If there is a creator God who designed all this why not seek him out for help.

If there is no God and it's all on us, then what's the point. If everyone has their own manual and can justify their behavior as they wish, then I choose to do nothing. I will just sit back and marvel at the train wreck that is humanity.

Any one can construct a facade around his or her soul, but only you and the one who created you know what that souls really looks like.
edit on 6-8-2017 by Observationalist because: Added quotes

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:50 PM


posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 05:12 PM
The mathematical expression of the hermetic axiom "As above, so below" has now been discovered:
It permits the derivation of the mathematical map of all levels of reality. They are represented in a hitherto undiscovered geometrical structure that accompanies the Kabbalistic Tree of Life (Etz Chayim). The Sri Yantra, the five Platonic solids and the disdyakis triacontahedron have been proved to be isomorphic to this remarkable geometry hidden within the Tree of Life. The Gosset polytope, which represents the symmetries of the Lie group E8 used in E8xE8 heterotic superstring theory, has been shown to be their polytopic counterpart. For details of how the mathematical representation of the physical universe in terms of the holistic template of the Pythagorean tetractys mirrors the representation of all superphysical levels of reality in terms of this template, visit:

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 07:28 PM
Hermes and the mythology surrounding him is awesome!He has also been considered a patron saint for merchants,herdsmen, thieves, travelers and messengers.They used to pile rocks up at crossroads in respect.

The study of Hermetics is a deep well to draw from.It can be a life long study if someone is so inclined.The more esoteric writings like The Divine Pymander, Emerald Tablet, Tablets of Thoth are full of meaning.They can be great for meditation and returning periodically for deeper insight.Usually, The Kybalion is brought up as a good place to start.Miss Wade over at Midnight In the Desert did another good show recently, with Bruce Rawles eloquently covering the Hermetic Laws and perspective (24/07/17).

Imo, the study of Hermetics inspires individuals to practice recognizing and learning to work with natural laws in a more personal sense.Often it easy to feel jaded and powerless in the face of the adversity that life throws our way.Working with these laws can show one that the practice of starting slow and taking responsibility for what we can, can enable us to have wider spreading influence in the world around us.(Through cultivating our spirit)

It's always a timely reminder, but worrying about things we can't change doesn't help.It's fine to have goals, but having an understanding of how they could be makes it much easier to work at.It's empowering and goes a long way to leveling the playing field...

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 07:32 PM
Wasn't Hermes more or less a messenger of sort for the Olympians and has some kind of connection to the concept of a paranormal trickster? I know in Greek mythology, there is a ferryman that guide souls to the underworld, Hades. Which is why the Greek and Romans used to put two coin of the eyelids of the deceased loved ones to pay for their passage.

I know in Egyptian mythology Osiris and Anubis were both considered Gods of the underworld. Thoth was some kind of councilor or advisor to the Gods, like Ra, which I guess is kind of a parallel to a messenger of the Gods. Although the origins of Thoths birth are a little...homoerotic in that sense. Set was the Egyptian God of Storms.

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 07:43 PM
a reply to: Specimen

In mythology his character appears in a wide set of context.To me, he makes the most sense as a reoccuring Archetype or personification of the energies he represents.The stories about him usually contain many clues to the roles he plays in our history, though trying to pin him down isn't going to

Most often he is brought up as Hermes, Mercury, and Thoth. I've come across Loki, Enoch, and Ningishzidda even being associated roughly with him.

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 08:00 PM
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Yea the Trickster Archetype I've heard so much about, which is supposed to connect them. Supposedly when Alexander and the Greeks went to Egypt, both cultures were infatuated with each other where they would make many comparison, which is probably why this connection so prevelant to date.

I usually have a tendency to compare storm Gods, seeing as to how prevalent they can be the many cultures even where in some cult beleifs they would sun gods as well, like Zeus in some stances. He was a Trickster as well, although albeit, more of brutish kind due to his status of power. Most Gods though are usually harsh on mortals, common theme with elements an spirits.

Odin in Nordic mythology was said to be a Trickster as well but it odd to have sky father gods, to play such deviant games, when you'd think they'd have better thing to do like preserving the realms, but Id even dare say the father in Christain theology might be one too.
edit on 6-8-2017 by Specimen because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 08:15 PM
a reply to: Specimen

I tend to think of mythology being to society as dreams are to the individual.

Imo, the similarities in the gods and their imagery around the world is a reflection of the different cultures' psyches.In the context of this thread, the gods have roots in the astrology, and forces of nature.There's probably a Meso-American Hermes out there too, for example.

I hope that this similarity I see, points to our having more in common then that divides. Whether individuals or cultures collectively recognize that perspective, is a completely different question.The followers of belief systems will always have their positive and negative, depending on where they are in their spiritual journey or as they orient themselves as STS/STO.

Personally, I have never thought of the Father in Christian theology as a trickster.It really depends on the images you hold of these forces in your life.The powers we submit to, are the ones that rule over us.

BTW:Your signatures are lulz!

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 08:44 PM
It’s a untruth that changing oneself changes the world---it’s a platitude that is NOT TRUE. One can only change ones own world and their immediate surroundings somewhat.

It is true in the sense it changes one individual microcosm. However, it does not affect much the macrocosm-the ABOVE.

Its just to miniscule to affect the macrocosm.

Its like a drop in the ocean, which will never affect the ocean very much.

The macrocosm is controlled by Time and what people call God.

The individual cannot control the macrocosm at all, only in regard his minicule self.

In the end of time the macrocosm will be the greatest form of change through the law of

AS ABOVE SO BELOW to only those on the spiritual path...

This law states that the inward of humans( the below-microcosm) has to reflect the macrocosm—the whole or the ABOVE.

The macrocosm as of now is a corrupted (demiurge) world through the Fall of Man phenomenon. That is the reason we have difficulties in spiritual growth....This informs us that this cosmic law, AS ABOVE SO BELOW, is as of now working against us.

When one takes on a spiritual path, one is in a strange way, going against God or the law, AS ABOVE SO BELOW, because the ABOVE is now corrupted and a spiritual path is trying to create inner perfection( in the below) the opposite of the present ABOVE which is curropt.

That’s entirely is the reason we have such difficulty on the spiritual journey

When in time the ABOVE-MACROCOSM becomes again perfect the journey to perfection will become easier for the seekers. That can only be wrought by Time--God.

edit on 6-8-2017 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-8-2017 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 08:59 PM
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Who knows man, it is a wonder if most of the connections are done out of imitation and ignorance, or is there really some kind of underlying connection that gets buried in our psyche that can be expressed as literature or art. True, the planets and stars have a played a huge role an such where you could say great mind think a like.

The Trickster though can be applied to any God, or even human in some stories who use their brains rather than power or status. Ares was said to be a coward, no different then loki in that sense and even status in their own pantheon and yet he a is a God of War in Greece all the while Indra, a god of war in hinduism but is on par with Zeus in terms of feats and is in the same element.

Yea, how am I going to explain that one...i think this where the father archetype kind of comes into play, where as an Ideal concept of a father is meant to control and prepare the child archetype, and prepares them for the world. A Trickster on the other hand can do the same thing, albeit more vague, and misleading, to the point it can be viewed as a danger.

Just my two hey pennies.

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extra DIV

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 11:05 PM
a reply to: Willtell

Hi Willtell, some interesting thoughts in your post.

I don't tend to think of hermetics principles with regards to changing the above so much.I feel the Hermetic axioms work to encourage one to change the within to alter the without.Sailors using the sky to navigate the oceans comes to mind.Working these principles I lean to the microcosm being the within and the macrocosm being the without.I believe the universe is framed using natural laws, and that these laws apply equally to everybody.

I don't believe that the concept of a malevolent demiurge is a part of hermetic philosophy, rather coming out of more gnostic beliefs.The concept of the demiurge is found in a variety of beliefs though, and not all dark necessarily.

Though the tools individuals use can be used for better or worse, hopefully the lessons they learn encourage them to more practice greater responsibility for their actions. From the conspiracy slant, understanding those laws takes dedication and a deeper understanding of unity & duality.Lacking that, there's a high price to pay once one realizes how it plays out.

posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 12:40 AM

So anyway, what do you think of the alleged quote of Hermes and the idea of changing the outer world (or experience of the world and please make the argument of the difference) by changing the inner world?

Well, from observation, I would say that "As above so below" is a literal statement of what is .

I say that from an independent, non-aligned clairvoyant's perspective. Basically, I see stuff and don't belong to any inner group.

The fighting between ideologies, be they religious or otherwise is just as vicious there in the inner worlds as it is here.

I'll give an example. I was observing a mosque in Jerusalem from a distance some years ago, basically looking for reasons for the violence between religions.

What I found was a very odd fellow who was filled with vitriol. He didn't fit there with the comparably calm other people. It took some detective work to realise this fella was a reincarnated person of another religion.

I didn't find out if he reincarnated himself into Islam on purpose or was put there on purpose by his religion. Whatever the circumstance he felt so out of place there both to me and himself. I am sure this caused a huge conflict within himself. Perhaps he was inserted as an agent provocateur against his will. That would explain the hatred towards another particular religion, the sense of betrayal would explain and create the vitriolic violence.

My opinion on this guy's insertion was to cause violent persecution towards a certain group who could then "protect themselves". Sound familiar?

So, inner world black-ops . . .

That is my summation anyway.

I did approach the mosque inner organisers and point this out. They were genuinely surprised. Just left it with them, not my problem.

There is a lot of this sorta stuff going on.

People reincarnate repeatedly in certain roles and afterwards they take up positions in the various groups upstairs. Those guys are hard cases. My view is that they are a mob of gangsters when you don't toe the line or accept their invitations.

Now how to change this world?

Realise that they need us more then we need them. That is to say; take control of this world ourselves

We can work in linear time, they cannot. This means they can't run this world from non-linear time, thus reincarnation and people on the ground under control.

We can have children through sexual reproduction,, they can't. The can have children via asexual means (perhaps an atrophied ability, maybe not) Sexual reproduction is something of this material world as far as I know.

In sexual reproduction, "evolution" of a species is fast, very fast. In asexual reproduction evolution is very, very slow as replicas of the parent is produced.

We can experience living and build subtle matter for building our inner bodies of expression. You need this world of experience for that. The growth and becomming.

Just take control. Some of those guys have been dead so long they have forgotten what it is like to be alive.

Apologies for my cynicism.

edit on 7-8-2017 by Whatsthisthen because: clarity and changed "timelessness" to "non-linear time" as it better represents the point I was making.

posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 06:42 AM
a reply to: toysforadults

Does that mean I literally changed the world or just changed the world around me and what does that really mean?

Everything you do changes everything. Your very existence occupies and alters space time. Even if you sit perfectly still you are still affecting the mass of the earth as it spins thru space, altering its direction ever so slightly.

You can't not affect the world around you.

Theres more to life than just 'school and money'. How we behave towards others matters most.

posted on Jan, 13 2020 @ 07:35 AM
When you close your eyes, you will not see a material world.
So when you think of an action, you manifest it into the world. And with such action always a reaction. And with a reaction, an outcome. And with an outcome must bring with it, its consequence.
Nothing you do in this world can have NO wake.
For even our thoughts send ripples of creation into the world.

edit on 1/13/2020 by kiliker30 because: (no reason given)

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