If this were About Obama……

This is a point that seems to come up on nearly every thread regarding Trump that I think demonstrates a fundamental flaw with the arguments put forward from the Trump supporters. More than that however I think that this is also a issue that shows how ATS is losing its very soul to those who support Trump.

Specifically what I mean is this.

If the kind of scandals that are circling the white house were hanging over the Obama administration rather than the Trump administration then the views of Trump supporters would be very different.

This to me is a undeniable fact, if there had been a grand jury convened regarding a scandal hanging over the Obama administration that was coming at him from all angles with all aspects of the media covering the issue then there would be calls for his impeachment. If the kind of stories about the Trump administration were coming out about the Obama administration during his first six months in office then those who are currently supporting Trump would have been calling for Obama’s impeachment.

There is more to it that that however, quite regularly any story that is released regarding the Trump-Russia scandal is dismissed as being “fake-news”. Under the Obama administration these stories would have been taken as biblical truth, yet because they conflict with their current political views they are dismissed as “fake-news”. This behaviour embraces ignorance, it encourages it, it is the opposite of denying ignorance.

Even things that used to be big news on ATS are being dismissed. Where we once welcomed, dare I say even enjoyed, big government leaks, now the Trump supporters are calling for the weight of justice to be brought against government leakers. Why? Because the leaks again do not support their current political views, they paint Trump in a negative light and as such they chose to denounce these leaks.

In the same breath this also happens with the “anonymous sources” who released information to the press. These sources are dismissed because they cannot be named, when the truth is that if these same anonymous sources were speaking out against Obama (or any other political for that matter) there information would have been embraced.

This kind of behaviour is rampant, the same people who once demanded Obama’s birth certificate don't so much as give a second thought to the fact that Trump still refuses to release his tax returns. The same people who welcomed the Snowden and Manning leaks are now denouncing the leaks coming out against the Trump administration.

Yes I can acknowledge that at times some stories have been exposed as fake news or that the media has exaggerated stories about Trump, yet the overriding narrative regarding the scandals regarding his administration are not fake news. The whole reason behind this denial is because Trump supporters cannot accept information that is country to their political view point. Information against Trump creates a conflict in their closely held narrative that supports Trump, it creates a cognitive dissonance that has changed the line of consensus thinking on ATS. At its heart, I would like to believe that ATS is still a platform for discussing conspiracies, the scandal around Trump and his relations with Russia could be the biggest political conspiracy of our time, it could be bigger than Watergate, yet many on ATS are ignoring it because of the conflict with their political views.

Racists will be racists. Some blacks are racist against whites. Some whites are racist against blacks. Neither Obama or Trump can do much about that. You can thank MSM for pushing racial conflicts.

a reply to: allsee4eye

I do not think Trump supporters are racist (sure they might be a few bad appeals) but on the whole I don't believe that they support Trump because he is white and opposed Obama because he was black, I think it comes down to more serious issues around policy, ideology and how they feel personally about the men.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

We are witnessing the results of years of propaganda and brainwashing that goes all the way back to the 30's, the push back from the New Deal and from people such as Rev. James Fifield, the Heritage Foundation and the modern Right Wing machine.

They do not care about honesty or consistency. They care about confirmation bias that fits in-line with what they have been taught to believe.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

We are witnessing the results of years of propaganda and brainwashing that goes all the way back to the 30's, the push back from the New Deal and from people such as Rev. James Fifield, the Heritage Foundation and the modern Right Wing machine.

They do not care about honesty or consistency. They care about confirmation bias that fits in-line with what they have been taught to believe.

What I find really amazing though is how ATS I always thought was a place where propaganda like this was resisted.

It seems to me at times like the old wolfs of ATS have turned into the Sheeple.

I don't actually understand how they cannot see that Trump is a elite, if there ever was such a thing as a NWO then surly a candidate like Trump would be there guy.

If there was proof, and I emphasise that, on any president doing the things they say trump is doing. It would be supported on ATS by all members, whether that president was white black brown or any colour of the rainbow.

The man is the most scrutinised president by the media most have seen in there whole lives on this planet. Many things that come out against him are proven false and seen as a sore looser created problem by those that lost because people VOTED the opposite of who was supposed to win.

ATS has lost its soul to dumb political threads that are uploaded constantly, most of them are the same as the others just different wording.

I've said it before and I shall say again, please provide any proof to hate this man and I will follow suit, as it's come to the stage I crave this proof to try and understand what a lot of members on here feel.

ATS is no longer a conspiracy based website, it has become a political pissing match between one side of America, the other side of America, and those in between that would like to see this site get back on track.

Trump supporters:

"Why are they keeping on and on about this Russian collusion fake news??!?"

Also Trump supporters:

"Obama's birth certificate!! (repeat for nearly a decade).

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I have been more vocal in support of Trump ONLY because of the shills that cry even louder from the other side... and I mean, MY side is the right side.

Obama never faced a propaganda machine out for his throat. The machine was behind him in every way. Trump is being attacked by the machine... and whether or not hes gaining some blind followers with his antics, i still believe those blind followers are in a much better situation than they would have been had Trump lost... even when they do not realize it.

Turn about is fair play?

You are correct if the republicans and the establishment at large where pushing a naritive of scandal based on as yet unsubstantiated rumors regarding the Obama administration than yes many (not all) Trump supporters would be acting less indifferent then they are now.

But the peace your missing is that many (not all) Obama supporters would also be acting different then they are now. They would be acting the same way those Trump supporters are acting now.

Benghaz
Clinton's handling of classified material

Are only but a few examples of the reversing adetudes relating to scandal and if they involve political figures one supports.

Why keep crying about this basic concept of human nature?

a reply to: chadderson

Obama never faced a propaganda machine out for his throat.

BS

See my post above.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If it's not about Obama why did we need a wall of text about 'would've been'? I don't think it's about Obama.

For the record most of the 'scandals swirling around the Whitehouse' are also swirling around the toilet bowl because they're crap. Russia, Russia, and Russia, those are all the same 'scandal'.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
Racists will be racists. Some blacks are racist against whites. Some whites are racist against blacks. Neither Obama or Trump can do much about that. You can thank MSM for pushing racial conflicts.

This has a whole lot more to do with willful ignorance than racism.

Racism may have played a significant role during the Obama administration but people aren't protesting Trump because of his race, they're protesting Trump because he's a dishonest, vindictive, narcissistic idiot who loves Russia more than America.

a reply to: chadderson


bull.

trump has been a pompous ass his whole life. his fortune is his brand for gods sake... HE has kept himself in the public eye (think Kardashian). he's always been a world class jerk. blows my mind that people think he's being treated unfairly.


on topic.

nepotism. can you image if Hillary had won and put Chelsea in a high white house position? lololol

originally posted by: Chadwickus
Trump supporters:

"Why are they keeping on and on about this Russian collusion fake news??!?"

Also Trump supporters:

"Obama's birth certificate!! (repeat for nearly a decade).

I think this is the fairest assessment. The difference being that one side has the political and media influence to push and control a false narrative to a point to where we have a investigative fishing expedition. Whereas the other situation didn't. Not only that you have loyalist Intel operative breaking the law on a daily basis to undermine the guy.

Another point is that nothing Trump has done so far has benefit Russia or served their interest. In fact the contrary has been demonstrably true with Obama and Hillary.

originally posted by: CuriousPaddy
If there was proof, and I emphasise that, on any president doing the things they say trump is doing. It would be supported on ATS by all members, whether that president was white black brown or any colour of the rainbow.

The man is the most scrutinised president by the media most have seen in there whole lives on this planet. Many things that come out against him are proven false and seen as a sore looser created problem by those that lost because people VOTED the opposite of who was supposed to win.

ATS has lost its soul to dumb political threads that are uploaded constantly, most of them are the same as the others just different wording.

I've said it before and I shall say again, please provide any proof to hate this man and I will follow suit, as it's come to the stage I crave this proof to try and understand what a lot of members on here feel.

ATS is no longer a conspiracy based website, it has become a political pissing match between one side of America, the other side of America, and those in between that would like to see this site get back on track.

Stand by, because the proof is coming at you like a freight train and judging by your current state of denial, I doubt you clear the tracks in time to keep from being plowed under like manure in a corn field.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You appear to have hit the nail firmly about its head in your OP.

There have been, over the years of my membership, many times where persons on the right and the left came together, to query or totally decry the actions of a sitting President, their associations, their history and their morality or lack thereof. I feel that in many of those situations, where both "sides" of the political divide, came together to bear witness to, and speak out against the negative and unhelpful behaviour of governments, the fact that both or all interested groups came together to do such a thing, was one of the key markers of the legitimacy of the complaints as made.

Be they against further military action in the Middle East, against the mass surveillance systems erection, operation and defence from just public scrutiny, against the bailing out of banks at the expense of the taxpayer, or against the status quo which has underpinned many of the negative influences on our present, and the future, the fact that we did these things together, that right and wrong were not different for one group, than they were for the other, by and large, showed our grievances to be genuine, not partisan.

But nowadays, even the most blatant misdeeds, the most questionable ethics, the most unworkable policy and the least noble attitudes on the part of leaders, are being supported, not cast down, by far more people than they ever used to. Certainly, there were always people around here, who could be relied upon to support something utterly disgusting, just because it was harmful to minorities, or harmful to the environment, or harmful in some way to what they mistakenly referred to as the left. This shortsightedness was not, in any way, the norm here.

But ever since the spectre of the last American election rose its head, there have been massive changes in the way people relate to one another, and I cannot suggest in fairness or honesty, that these are the result of media manipulation. Media has always been terrifically sick, broken, full of lunacy and lies, spin and indoctrination. The O'Reilly's and Hannity's of the world, and their counterparts in other realms of the media, have always had an agenda other than the betterment of mankind on their minds, and therefore are illegitimate commentators, hellbent on maintaining the lines between the people of the world, not uniting them or advancing them in the least. No, this is not a mere matter of the same old tricks.

Something has changed in the mindset of certain quarters of this site, and thinking in populations more generally, and by no means has it changed for the better. Something is drastically wrong. It is no longer the case, that I can rely on my fellow members to respond to information in a sane way, to treat information correctly, to be honest in their dealings with others, or even with themselves. Simply put, those on the right have stumbled and scattered to the far right. Those in the center previously, now occupy the right, and let it be known, THIS is why many of us on the left have been forced to move further and further to the left, to balance things out. We have become more vocal and socially minded, because we are faced with the disgusting, cowardly and defunct thinking of the 1930s, and MUST rebel, because it is our duty as free people to oppose that thinking. We have been given no choice.

This is a dangerous time, for thought, for freedom, and for liberty, and the greatest threat to all these things, is the most ignorant human being to ever hold office.

a reply to: knoxie

nepotism. can you image if Hillary had won and put Chelsea in a high white house position? lololol

Or if John F. Kennedy had appointed his brother to be the Attorney General of the US.
oh wait....
He did do that.
Yeah, nepotism.... it is real.

Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
@BarackObama played golf yesterday. Now he heads to a 10 day vacation in Martha's Vineyard. Nice work ethic.
11:36 AM - Aug 15, 2011


meanwhile trump heads off for a 17 day vacation... almost twice as long as Obama's. LOLOLOLOL

he's such an ass. it's embarrassing.

a reply to: butcherguy


doesn't change the fact you all would have FLIPPED OUT if Chelsea had been given a high appointment. LOL

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yeah. ATS has become a propaganda arm of Trump supporters. It isn't a conspiracy site anymore.