Republicans Have Thrown In The Towel - Will Patch Up ObamaCare by Any Means Necessary.

We've known the problems with Obamacare for the better part of a Decade. The Democrats have had almost as much time to fix and change things. The Republicans have had almost a decade to come up with a replacement and fix and we get....Nothing!

Our Congress is a joke. I still to this day, don't understand why we don't vote third party. For everything. Let's start getting these idiots out of our government. It's easy to do. Just vote third party! I did and will do.

a reply to: ketsuko

I have yet to see anything coming from either of the 2 parties that get to the root cause. And that is cost.

And it matters not if it is medicare, medicaid, VA, private insurance. Not one (other than sanders) is talking about cost compared to other industrialized nations.

It all has turned into a pissing match to keep the money flowing to the real owners of the country.

I can't remember a more pointed indication that the repubs, conservative or rino, DO NOT work for the voter. This is proof, you have to be brave enough to believe it. The dems are just as bad.

a reply to: seasonal

I've told you why things cost so much. It's because we have both insurance companies and the government paying for routine health care services. Both of those entities have far more money than you or I.

The medical industry prices accordingly.

You see the same thing happening with college and college tuition. So many kids go in on government loans that colleges are raising tuition rates because government will simply approve more in financial aid and stupid kids borrow and rack up more debt. This is called "making college affordable."

The same thing happens in health care.

Take those deep pockets out and the market will have to correct. Health care providers will not be able to sell to people who cannot pay, so the prices will have to come down where people can afford them. You see this with plastic surgery and lasik, neither of which are covered by insurance plans.

There are general practitioner clinics springing up where the rules allow that are fee for service or monthly subscription where you pay around $100/month and get all of your basic health needs covered, anything that can be done in a GP's office. This is again much cheaper than most insurance plans ever were. But those offices are pricing into their customers' pockets, not into the government or insurance industry pockets.

a reply to: ketsuko

Chick or the egg I'm afraid.

The reasons are less important than there is evidence from outside the US that it does not have to be this way.

The hospitals are taking full advantage of a situation, could be called capitalism maximizing profits.

If hospitals didn't charge so much would the costs go up or down?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: ketsuko

Chick or the egg I'm afraid.

The reasons are less important than there is evidence from outside the US that it does not have to be this way.

The hospitals are taking full advantage of a situation, could be called capitalism maximizing profits.

If hospitals didn't charge so much would the costs go up or down?

I'd rather not be taxed to death any more than I already am.

We're approaching 50% tax liability as it is without the added taxes a single payer system would have.

I want to pay for my health care, know what I am paying rather then have hidden taxes in every nook and cranny plus a brand-spanking new VAT added into the cost of everything making everything more expensive on top of all the rest. And all the added tax shenanigans that can come with the VAT! Just think of the possibilities for congress to pick winners and losers with punitive VAT tax rates ...

Instead, let me just pay outright so there is no one and no tax between me and my freakin' bill.

If you really would rather pay VAT and all the rest ... move. There are plenty of countries with systems you would like.

Build a raft on the keys and float across to Cuba. I hear Michael Moore recommends their system highly.

"Government run healthcare in the US is like getting Edward Scissor-hands to give you a prostate exam after a tequila bender."

-DBCowboy

The thing is you don’t improve something by making it worse.


It’s just not moral, logical or workable and that’s what the GOP and Trump are trying to do.


Its spiteful, negative and immature


Punish human beings because your political plan isn’t accepted.


It’s not like taking your ball home so no one can play, its like putting nails in the ball

a reply to: ketsuko

Well if someone makes $4000 a month, and has a family of 4, 25% is now required for a high deducible policy.

There are better and less expensive ways. Just an objective look around the globe should have anyone who is willing to be objective to not curl up in a fetal position and tell others to arrange travel plans.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: ketsuko

Well if someone makes $4000 a month, and has a family of 4, 25% is now required for a high deducible policy.

There are better and less expensive ways. Just an objective look around the globe should have anyone who is willing to be objective to not curl up in a fetal position and tell others to arrange travel plans.

Are those 2 kids from the $4000/month family more sick than kids from a family making $3000/month?

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't follow.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
"Government run healthcare in the US is like getting Edward Scissor-hands to give you a prostate exam after a tequila bender."

-DBCowboy

Government-run healthcare in America would not happen without a special nationwide vote. We The People would NOT leave it to the Congress to decide.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: ketsuko

Well if someone makes $4000 a month, and has a family of 4, 25% is now required for a high deducible policy.

Seasonal, please itemize how you reach that 25% figure. TIA.

a reply to: carewemust

We are probably too late.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: ketsuko

Well if someone makes $4000 a month, and has a family of 4, 25% is now required for a high deducible policy.

There are better and less expensive ways. Just an objective look around the globe should have anyone who is willing to be objective to not curl up in a fetal position and tell others to arrange travel plans.

Well let's look at everyone's fav. Sweden.

They have a VAT of 25% on top of an average 57% income tax.

So let's see ... That family making $4,000/month in Sweden is only bringing home $1,720 after income tax obligations. Then, let's say they need toilet paper. Walmart sells 12 rolls of Angel Soft for $10.97 here. But in Sweden that would come with a 25% VAT added on. So it would actually cost $13.71, and the cost of every item you buy in Sweden has its cost similarly adjusted on top of your drastically downgraded income.

But at least you aren't paying for the doctor's office visit because you sure don't have it for anything else, either.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't follow.

Why should one family pay more for the same health insurance than another, simply because they make more money?

Assume two families with the same age and gender children, who are in the same class and are exposed to the same communal diseases. One makes 3000 per month, one makes 4000. Let's say they both pay 25% for health insurance for simplicity of math.

Why should one family pay 1000 per month to keep their kids healthy, when the other pays 750 per month for the same quality of care?

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't think they should.

I think health care must be negotiated to get the costs down to what other industrialized nations pay. In order to do that it needs to be nation wide. One state does not have the numbers to deal with the monopolies in medical.

a reply to: carewemust

My own experience. This is a high deductible policy-2,500 per person with a 10,000 limit. I can't remember but 80/20% split comes in somewhere in there.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust

We are probably too late.

President Trump wants Universal "beautiful" Healthcare for all Americans. ObamaCare was the sneaky way of attempting to get there. I think he'd commission a study and put the results in front of voters before deciding to implement it though.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: ketsuko

Well if someone makes $4000 a month, and has a family of 4, 25% is now required for a high deducible policy.

There are better and less expensive ways. Just an objective look around the globe should have anyone who is willing to be objective to not curl up in a fetal position and tell others to arrange travel plans.

Well let's look at everyone's fav. Sweden.

They have a VAT of 25% on top of an average 57% income tax.

So let's see ... That family making $4,000/month in Sweden is only bringing home $1,720 after income tax obligations. Then, let's say they need toilet paper. Walmart sells 12 rolls of Angel Soft for $10.97 here. But in Sweden that would come with a 25% VAT added on. So it would actually cost $13.71, and the cost of every item you buy in Sweden has its cost similarly adjusted on top of your drastically downgraded income.

But at least you aren't paying for the doctor's office visit because you sure don't have it for anything else, either.

No kidding? That stinks!

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: carewemust

My own experience. This is a high deductible policy-2,500 per person with a 10,000 limit. I can't remember but 80/20% split comes in somewhere in there.

You're right! If your family reaches its $10,000 Out-of-Pocket, on top of the monthly premiums, that's 25% of $4,000 a month income.

Underlying medical costs are the prime driver. Universal Healthcare would reduce the actual premium and Out-of-Pocket, but if you're a tax-paying consumer, you'll pay the government, instead of the Insurance company's premiums.