Conference teaches K-12 educators how to combat ‘whiteness in schools’

a reply to: Lucidparadox

If the system catered to whites, you would think that the Asians wouldn't be able to beat us using it. Yet they do.

So again, stop dodging the 500lb gorilla in the room.

For a supposedly white centric system, it seems that the Asians get more mileage out of the system than whites do.

Perhaps ... looking around the world, the other cultures in question are not thriving for a reason, and instead of catering to them, they should be asking themselves why they aren't thriving culturally. Not all cultures are equal or equally successful. And it isn't the fault of the European or Asian cultures that those other cultures are where they are.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

That reeks of segregation.

I was responding to the person who wrote above.

Either we tailor cultural approaches to kids of different cultures which does smack of segregation or we go back to simply teaching the subjects and stop with the persistent belief that kids of one color or another are incapable of learning because they are that color or ethnicity which IMO smacks of soft bigotry.

But why do you think it's wrong to allow a local school to find a way that works for them based on their kids, the needs of their kids, and the community they are working with? You know, be responsive to the needs of their students and parents rather than dictated to from bureaucrats miles and miles away who don't know squat about conditions on the ground?

Truth is that a rural school is different from an urban one is different from a suburban is different from one any of those same in different parts of the country even.

Do you think the school in a small Alaskan village has the same needs or challenges as the one in suburban Peoria has the same needs as the kids coming in from bordertown New Mexico?

Do you honestly think any of those schools could be run exactly the same or should be?

It isnt calling out "whites" as a problem, its calling out the SYSTEM catering to whites as the problem.

Id love for schools to be able to cater lesson plans to children with different tested learning styles. That would be ideal.

However what YOU are saying is segregation based on race.

We cant create a one size fits all lesson plan..

but we can create a system that is unbiased

If I understand your comment, catering to white is the problem?

Whites learn differently than other non white kids?

So different color kids learn differently?

I think there has to be a base that we teach from and some adjustments can be made for the kids (of any color) that may need help.

a reply to: seasonal

So, since they are promoting racism they lose all federal funding, right?

Not holding my breath.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: seasonal

So, since they are promoting racism they lose all federal funding, right?

Not holding my breath.

It's only racist if whites do it. Reverse racism isn't possible.

I think the progressive left wants to go the route of Zimbabwe in regards to white people. Because that country is such an unparalleled success thanks to it's racially-motivated policies.

a reply to: seasonal

I was in the Chicago public schools when they started busing students around to different areas.

We all sat in the same classroom. We all looked at the same chalkboard - which was black and that offended me. The chalk was white though which made me feel empowered and superior. My teacher was white but her name was Ms. Black...that confused me and now I have debilitating sensory issues because of it. I may have to file suit... Has anybody seen my therapy dog?

"Come here (insert ambiguous pet name here)". "Here (not boy or girl because its wrong to limit their choices or label them)". "I (insert non-threatening term of affection here) you".

originally posted by: 3n19m470
You realize the only reason we haven't been exterminated yet is because we still have enough numbers and power in our own nations.

There is a growing sentiment that "if only the whites had never existed..." then all problems would be solved. Or, more accurately, there would never have been any problems to begin with. Every atrocity committed by non-whites does not exist for these people, or they are "still nothing compared to what white people did"... All nonwhite acheivements are lifted upon a pedestal, all white achievements were either stolen, plundered, created with slave labor, or was a direct result of white privilege...so, those really should have been other people's acheivements.

And after our numbers have dwindled and our seats of power relinquished, our guns grabbed, it will be open season.

Yup....looks like that will happen in south Africa.

I grew up in the 80s/90s & had many friends of different races. As children, we saw each other as equals & race was never an issue. We were taught that we were all created equal & that we have individual rights, which made us equal. Communism was considered evil during the 80s/90s by the majority of people in the US. The 80s/90s were an excellent time to grow up in & our country's future was looking positive during that time. Then 911 happened. Then the war on terror happened. Then Obama became president on a campaign based on hope/change for the future. This is when all the division we are seeing now started & white people became viewed as evil by the rest of society & half of white people were taught to hate themselves. Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize before he overthrew Libya's government & tried to overthrow Syria's government. Obama was also friendly towards Communist Cuba & the new communist pope. Russia in the 80s/90s was considered evil because it was communist. Today Russia is considered evil by the left because its not communist. I believe our education system was better during the 80s/90s than it is today, only because it taught values based on individual rights vs. collective group rights. Collective groups exclude others. Individual rights do not exclude others. I feel sad for the people on the left who can't grasp this concept. Its also the concept which our nation was founded on.

By the way, almost every modern technological innovation which society runs on was created/discovered by white people. I don't understand why some groups call out others for cultural appropriation, while they benefit the most from it. I'm happy to share my culture with others.

originally posted by: InsaneIthorian

originally posted by: 3n19m470
You realize the only reason we haven't been exterminated yet is because we still have enough numbers and power in our own nations.

There is a growing sentiment that "if only the whites had never existed..." then all problems would be solved. Or, more accurately, there would never have been any problems to begin with. Every atrocity committed by non-whites does not exist for these people, or they are "still nothing compared to what white people did"... All nonwhite acheivements are lifted upon a pedestal, all white achievements were either stolen, plundered, created with slave labor, or was a direct result of white privilege...so, those really should have been other people's acheivements.

And after our numbers have dwindled and our seats of power relinquished, our guns grabbed, it will be open season.

Yup....looks like that will happen in south Africa.

And if it does, you know the press will most likely ignore it the same way they ignore what's going on there now.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Lucidparadox

If the system catered to whites, you would think that the Asians wouldn't be able to beat us using it. Yet they do.

So again, stop dodging the 500lb gorilla in the room.

For a supposedly white centric system, it seems that the Asians get more mileage out of the system than whites do.

Perhaps ... looking around the world, the other cultures in question are not thriving for a reason, and instead of catering to them, they should be asking themselves why they aren't thriving culturally. Not all cultures are equal or equally successful. And it isn't the fault of the European or Asian cultures that those other cultures are where they are.

Okay.. for a point of reference.. Im a caucasian male.. and I cant believe you just said what I highlighted above...

I want to address that first.

It is EXACTLY the fault of the prior Euro/White American culture that African Americans are where they are today in our country. While that whole slavery things was going on (remember that?) white Americans were buying land and starting the businesses and created the laws that serve as the foundation of our country. White Americans got a huge head start! White Americans had access to education... African Americans didnt. The courts, the laws, the banks, the whole society was set up by a white culture that adopted slavery.

That was a long time ago. However, even though slavery is long gone... the impact that it had on the CULTURE of African Americans is still present. Not only that, but segregation and laws that directly impeded POC from buying good land, getting good jobs, etc. was STILL IN EFFECT only 65 years ago... 1 or 2 generations! Those generations had kids, and still a large majority of those kids adopted the beliefs of their parents.

This isnt some liberal SJW conspiracy. Its reality. Racism is real, prejudice is real, and they are still alove today in our country.

The deck is stacked against the impoverished, and the truth is a large segment of the countries impoverished are POC. Poverty breeds crime, hunger, parentless homes... etc. Its a cycle. Some get lucky, and are able to break through.. but the deck is still stacked against them.



Now I want to address how education can cater towards one culture over another. The best example I have been given is in standardized testing. As we all know, context clues given within questions in history, science, and English based questions give students a greater chance at answering things correctly. Many questions in standardized tests use terms, phrases, analogies, or examples of things that are primarily in white culture/homes/etc. Cognition of those context clues gives them a leg up, when some POC may not have ever encountered those examples, objects, or cultural references in their home.

Another common slant against POC on the education front is interior urban schools with primarily minority students suffer high teacher/student ratios... which is a proven metric in education and student success.

Lastly.. impoverished students who dont have that much food, limited clothing, and supervision at home are less likely to be successful in school because quite frankly, they have crazy stuff happening at home that isnt their fault, and they have to worry about where their next meal comes from.

As a white male who grew up in a poor urban environment... the knowledge gap between me and other suburban, rural white males etc. about what these people have to go through on a daily basis just to exist and make it to the next day is wider than the grand canyon.

Unless you have lived it, and experienced it first hand, you just wont understand.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

That reeks of segregation.

I was responding to the person who wrote above.

Either we tailor cultural approaches to kids of different cultures which does smack of segregation or we go back to simply teaching the subjects and stop with the persistent belief that kids of one color or another are incapable of learning because they are that color or ethnicity which IMO smacks of soft bigotry.

But why do you think it's wrong to allow a local school to find a way that works for them based on their kids, the needs of their kids, and the community they are working with? You know, be responsive to the needs of their students and parents rather than dictated to from bureaucrats miles and miles away who don't know squat about conditions on the ground?

Truth is that a rural school is different from an urban one is different from a suburban is different from one any of those same in different parts of the country even.

Do you think the school in a small Alaskan village has the same needs or challenges as the one in suburban Peoria has the same needs as the kids coming in from bordertown New Mexico?

Do you honestly think any of those schools could be run exactly the same or should be?

It isnt calling out "whites" as a problem, its calling out the SYSTEM catering to whites as the problem.

Id love for schools to be able to cater lesson plans to children with different tested learning styles. That would be ideal.

However what YOU are saying is segregation based on race.

We cant create a one size fits all lesson plan..

but we can create a system that is unbiased

Isn't that premise in it self racist?

What your saying is all races are not equal or the same.

Surely if we are all the same then it should not matter who takes a test?

originally posted by: InsaneIthorian

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

That reeks of segregation.

I was responding to the person who wrote above.

Either we tailor cultural approaches to kids of different cultures which does smack of segregation or we go back to simply teaching the subjects and stop with the persistent belief that kids of one color or another are incapable of learning because they are that color or ethnicity which IMO smacks of soft bigotry.

But why do you think it's wrong to allow a local school to find a way that works for them based on their kids, the needs of their kids, and the community they are working with? You know, be responsive to the needs of their students and parents rather than dictated to from bureaucrats miles and miles away who don't know squat about conditions on the ground?

Truth is that a rural school is different from an urban one is different from a suburban is different from one any of those same in different parts of the country even.

Do you think the school in a small Alaskan village has the same needs or challenges as the one in suburban Peoria has the same needs as the kids coming in from bordertown New Mexico?

Do you honestly think any of those schools could be run exactly the same or should be?

It isnt calling out "whites" as a problem, its calling out the SYSTEM catering to whites as the problem.

Id love for schools to be able to cater lesson plans to children with different tested learning styles. That would be ideal.

However what YOU are saying is segregation based on race.

We cant create a one size fits all lesson plan..

but we can create a system that is unbiased

Isn't that premise in it self racist?

What your saying is all races are not equal or the same.

Surely if we are all the same then it should not matter who takes a test?

That's not what I am saying at all.

We are all the same.

However, our cultures are different, as is our socioeconomic stauses..

A test and lesson plan can easily favor one person's background vs. another.

Here's a made up example...

Let's say you are from an island on the ocean.. and I am from the desert.

Let's say we each take a test. Let's say it's a physics test. All the questions on the test use real life examples to pose questions... however.. let's say all of these scenarios put forth on the test have to do with boating and ocean related things...

Let's say one question asks about the forces on a puppy system and it uses words like starboard, and jib.. etc..

You can clearly visualize what the question is asking.. and you know how the system of forces work .. because you're from an island.. and boating is a way of life for you.

I'm from the desert and never seen a boat. I don't know what starboard is...or a jib.. or any marine terminology.. so I have to work harder to understand the question.

This is what I'm talking about

a reply to: Lucidparadox

As a teacher myself I can say get what your saying.

And that is somewhat of a problem.

Whatever you do some student will be at a disadvantage if you have a large number of immigrants in a class.

But when you have 30 students in a class you cant tailor to every student as you dont have the time. So you just have to do the best you can.

Only solution to this problem is smaller class sizes and allow teacher more prep time.
Right now I have to teach 5 diffrent classes of between 25-30 students. I have 30 hours teaching and I get 5 hours prep and 5 hours to deal with meetings and goverment bull#. Me and all my collegues end up working 50- 60 hours a a week because we cant fit the work within the 40 hours and that extra 20 hours is not paid.

Increase numbers of teachers and you will see much better results.

In Korea, Japan ect Teachers only do 20 hours teaching and the rest is prep. They also get paid by performance and you can see the excellent standards it promotes.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

Yes, I've heard that before. It goes part and parcel with the story that certain school districts in Florida were mad that the word "camel" was used and those kids weren't culturally prepared to know what a camel was.

Thing is that when you tailor learning to kids who haven't learned much to begin with, you start talking about all kids learning less.

There was no discussion about teaching the concept of camel. Instead it was all about not using the word entirely. Explain to me how that benefited education overall for any of the kids? Some don't know what a camel is because they weren't exposed to the word by ignorant parents, so now no one in these schools can be exposed to it ... after all, we wouldn't want to make little Johnny feel bad that they all came in knowing something he didn't.

That's anti-education. You are basically making the argument that if they were not culturally taught a thing, then they don't need to be taught it in school either. How is that well-rounded and complete?

Don't you think they should be taught the tools to learn for themselves? We had these things called "dictionaries" in our classrooms when I was in school, and a large portion of time in 2nd grade centered on learning how to properly use them and all the information about unknown words that could be found in them. We also started learning about encyclopedias at about the same time. Today that would be Google.

Shouldn't little Johnny be taught how to look up "camel" (and other words/concepts he doesn't know) rather than simply not being exposed to them in the first place because his cultural upbringing didn't already equip him with that knowledge?

a reply to: ketsuko

Thing is I dont think cultural diffrence is the barrier it needs to be.

One school I had to teach at as part of my training had a large number of nepolese. There where children of the local Ghurkas. They came from pretty dire 3rd world conditions but they adapted fast. They where all some of my best students. Infact many where cutthroat in there learning willing step over fellow students to reach the top. Diffrent cultures but they assimilated and thrived, almost too well!

Same story with the Poles and Romanians. And I never had trouble with Black Carribean.

Problems students where 2 middle easten and a Nigerian student. They wernt dumb but refused to intigrate.

I think part of the problem is less cultural diffrence and more that some people from some cultures are stubbon and just refuse to intigrate.
If you view Anglo/ American/western European culture as evil and are hostile to accepting any of it, your going to fail.

a reply to: ketsuko
The problem is that a test doesn't gauge the intelligence of a child. It tests for what the child knows. It is a tool for gauging what a child has been taught and has retained.

That is why someone thought that "common core" was a good idea, because supposedly it tests for the child's ability to learn, and not for what he has been taught. Unfortunately, common core is a disaster in my eyes.

I heard a teacher say once that a test was a tool for her to know where she had failed and where she had succeeded, so she could know what her students needed from her.

The problem is in the system. It no longer is about teaching the children to learn, it is about calculating the numbers so they can get the money.

I was lucky enough, all those years ago, to attend a school that had open classrooms. Children were not limited to classrooms because of their age, but by their educational needs. I knew children that were in the 4th grade but were in 6th grade math classes, and children that were in 6th grade and in 4th grade English classes. The child attended the class that met their needs. The attention went to the children that needed the most help. Children at grade level that didn't need help were supervised, and the children that didn't need help and were ready, were allowed to move forward. This took time and more teachers but it gave the children what they needed. I graduated with honors and with a couple of college courses under my belt, because the school was forward thinking, and this was by in the sixties.

The educational system is not moving forward. It is stagnant and is focused on all the wrong things. You can't blame the children for that.

originally posted by: pteridine
Pay teachers for performance.

Bad idea. Education involves a broader set of factors than just the teacher. Even a great teacher can only do so much if they are fighting against apathy, inertia, or even open hostility from factors outside of their control.

You're not going to create a healthy environment by punishing teachers for things that they are already struggling against and cannot change.

originally posted by: pteridine
Dual track students into trades; not everyone is suited for college and we need skilled trades.

Great idea. Skilled trades are valuable and bring realistic prospects for better-paid employment. Higher education is great for those that are academically inclined, but it is not for everyone. To clarify, when I say "academically inclined" I do not mean "smarter", I mean that some people think better in the abstract while others think better in the practical, without any distinction being made about their intelligence. Some people could be equally good at both but feel happier in one rather than the other.

I think that we have created a stigma around those who do not study for a degree, which definitely needs to change.

a reply to: EvillerBob

Performance pay works in Asia and alongside more teachers.

a reply to: EvillerBob

I think performance pay alongside shifting some responsibility onto parents would be a good idea.

I know what you're after. I spent a few years in an inner city school. By the time I got the kids, they were getting pretty hardened in their attitudes. You could tell which ones had effective parenting and which ones didn't.

To be fair, I'm sure that many had mothers who tried but single mothers can only do so much in that situation when many of them were too young to be parents themselves and often have multiple kids.

Maybe we need to resurrect the idea of boot camp style military schools for behaviorally challenged children, not kids with secondary issues like autism or learning disability or other things which can provoke behavior, but kids who simply act out and don't know how to behave because they have no home discipline of any kind.

That could be its own track.

a reply to: InsaneIthorian
Doesn't that just push the problem further along the same track?

That just puts a different bounty on the heads of the children.

I think teachers should be paid well for their job, but to pay them according to how well their students do on a test is what got us to this spot in the first place.

Children today have technology that can bring knowledge to their finger tips. This technology is being wasted. What we need is a system that can make this technology a tool for academic learning. It may change they way teachers are taught to teach, but maybe it is time to bury the old teaching methods anyway.