Maybe it's time for America(ns) to step back...

a reply to: CriticalStinker

As Devil's Advocate, I think a lot of the shenanigans have been created in good faith by normal people who didn't have crystal balls. 1950s Cold War blues were existentially threatening to Western values. Soviets really did want to make the world grey and have us all queuing for our cabbages and Govt issue clothing. We (allies) had to defend our borders and ramp up our technology to stop Soviets gaining the upper hand.

Most of the reasons for pissing about with ME nations circle around controlling the oil to stop Russia from claiming it. We had to stop them becoming a wealthier nation to suppress their military ambitions. It's back-fired on most of the planet and who could have known? What were the alternatives?

All that aside, US foreign policy seems to be dictated by the jumpiest, most paranoid and cocksure people available. Cuba was described as a threat recently ffs. Cuba?! Muslims, NK missiles, Iran, missile shields in Eastern Europe...there's always an existential threat and when Cuba's on that list, you just have to accept there'll be no stepping back. Probably not ever.

If America leaves the world stage the world is lost.

I disagree...

It is now down to our generation to educate and show the next generation that Greed is not the most important factor.

The world is capable of living without the USA and this mindset needs to be corrected as of yesterday.

Warmest

Lags

a reply to: Lagomorphe

What an incredible parent you are to instill those values, but also the freedom and empowerment of thought.

I'm honored you said our generation when referring to me. However, I am a millennial myself. Yes there is many advances, but these need to be balanced with what we know, and not seem as the end all be all.

Everything is built on that of our ancestors.

If we forget them, their sacrifices and values, we forget our missions and goals.

When it is all said and done, we define ourselves with our ideas and actions. Those are our reflection, and history will remember our generations by what our collective produces.

I think that is important to remember. Because in times of dark history glorifies the minority of minds who write light.

That being said, they are still dark times.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Maybe our cold war effort was in best interest and ended with favorable results.

But the cold war is over, and NATO is expanding. That alone is a proactive stance.

That aside, let's move to the ME. Both the US and Russia have a vast fossil fuel blessing. Two of the largest counties on the planet with massive amounts of resources only see the ME as proxy power.

Honestly with our technology, non renewable resources are a profit luxery more than necessity.

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

If America leaves the world stage the world is lost.

I disagree...

It is now down to our generation to educate and show the next generation that Greed is not the most important factor.

The world is capable of living without the USA and this mindset needs to be corrected as of yesterday.

Warmest

Lags

I'm not sure what greed has to do with it. Desire can be directed at higher virtues.

If the US pulled its military out of NATO or closed its many bases there will be nothing to deter foreign invasion. Every European country, the union, and all throughout the world leans on the Americans for defence. The world is incapable of living without the USA, and it is evident in the fact of the reliance on American military, economy, and even culture throughout the world.

The Kurds of Rojava (formerly the semi autonomous North East Syria, soon to be independent state of Rojava) not only thank and are grateful for POTUS Donald Trump, but to America in general for their efforts to help them pursuit a land grab for a homeland Israel style to drop a new NATO stronghold inside Syria fight ISIS.

People in the free sections of Afghanistan are also very grateful for their liberty, and for their privilege to live slightly more liberalized lives with reality shows like Afghan Idol and such. Ok so its a TV show, but what it represents for that population is something big. It represents their freedom of expression, which they and us continue to fight for. I mean, ok so the real reason is NATO foothold on Russia border and control of the huge mineral resources, but that does not mean the people cannot benefit in the form of personal liberties while under our sphere of influence.

Taiwan is a freer land under our friendship. Oh, we did help the African Union destroy the Lords Resistance Army in Congo/Uganda . An actual true victory to an early target of the War on Terror, But nobody seemed to care when I tried to bring it up. I guess it was too old of a matter to be concerned with.

We are consistently running dozens of joint training training exercises and advise and assist operations with a multitude of states across the globe from South America to Asia and Africa. In fact, I really had no idea just how expansive such joint operations were until I started branching out from US AfriCOM's twitter page seeking new content and situation reports.

My query would then be, what happens to all of these states if we just pulled up and left?? We have been helping to bring strict standards and discipline to armed forces who have lacked them for generations. Having those open lines to the generals as well has helped in some tricky situations with hostages and internal coups (unrelated to our interference in some cases) when combines with our logistics and disciplinary standards.

I think removing ALL of that would be pre-mature. Maintaining our forces in these less developed nations is much cheaper than those in our Pacific and European partners. Thats why I only propose we remove our presence from Europe for the time being an allow all the empires of old to start squabbling with each other over who will be the boss again.

I don't see China and Russia rushing to fill that void with their meager defense expenditures. Therefore, it is my assumption that our abrupt withdrawal from these hundreds of jurisdictions where even our most simplest or meager presence makes a big impact in stability and improved standards locally would be detrimental not just to their national cohesion, but quite possibly global stability.

Imagine an African Summer (Arab Spring style) busting out without a partner force like the US or NATO members to provide support??? Imagine what that would do to commodity prices when production stagnates due to war, or distribution is cut-off as a result?? Many of the metals and minerals our digital era has bestowed upon us come from Africa even though they get imported by China and re-sold to us as finished product. How much more expensive you think those gadgets will cost if China has to be the one to provide for the security and logistics of keeping that production going without a coup every 18 months in source nations??

I don't know if that answers any questions or simply raises more, but that is my input and perspective on the matter.

originally posted by: Aphorism

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

If America leaves the world stage the world is lost.

I disagree...

It is now down to our generation to educate and show the next generation that Greed is not the most important factor.

The world is capable of living without the USA and this mindset needs to be corrected as of yesterday.

Arrogance is not something to be proud of in my opinion!

Read my posts above... Also I served for my country and crown for so called "freedom"...

When you have put a 7.62 bullet through the head of a 16 to 18 year old kid for freedom because your presidentLeader said so because they are evil let me know....

I am still trying to cope with that! (The Falklands)

Warmest

Lags

I'm not sure what greed has to do with it. Desire can be directed at higher virtues.

If the US pulled its military out of NATO or closed its many bases there will be nothing to deter foreign invasion. Every European country, the union, and all throughout the world leans on the Americans for defence. The world is incapable of living without the USA, and it is evident in the fact of the reliance on American military, economy, and even culture throughout the world.

Have you looked deeply into where your cheap petrol and mineral ressources are coming or going to come from when the USA runs out mate?

Warmest

Lags

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: Aphorism

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

If America leaves the world stage the world is lost.

I disagree...

It is now down to our generation to educate and show the next generation that Greed is not the most important factor.

The world is capable of living without the USA and this mindset needs to be corrected as of yesterday.

Arrogance is not something to be proud of in my opinion!

Read my posts above... Also I served for my country and crown for so called "freedom"...

When you have put a 7.62 bullet through the head of a 16 to 18 year old kid for freedom because your presidentLeader said so because they are evil let me know....

I am still trying to cope with that! (The Falklands)

Warmest

Lags

I'm not sure what greed has to do with it. Desire can be directed at higher virtues.

If the US pulled its military out of NATO or closed its many bases there will be nothing to deter foreign invasion. Every European country, the union, and all throughout the world leans on the Americans for defence. The world is incapable of living without the USA, and it is evident in the fact of the reliance on American military, economy, and even culture throughout the world.

Have you looked deeply into where your cheap petrol and mineral ressources are coming or going to come from when the USA runs out mate?

Warmest

Lags

Know how much oil has been located in the US in the last 10 years , mate ? Enough to do a long , long time. A couple more refineries and we are self-sufficient for a hundred years or so. That isnt including shale oil . Our only roadblock is our own people.
I feel it is time to pull back on the International Stage. We did once upon a time.
In fact , called an Isolationist Policy by some....
Lets see how the world gets along then....it didnt last time...

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Short and sweet, we should go isolationist -

1. Bring all our troops home.

2. Bring all our manufacturing home.

3. Rebuild our infrastructure.

4. Secure the borders in any way possible.

5. Take care of American citizens first.

6. Deport everyone who is deportable including alien criminals.

7. Amend the Constitution to allow our military limited powers to assist law enforcement in a variety of areas including securing the border and policing high crime areas of the country.

a reply to: 123143

God, that sounds like N Korea.

It's pretty obvious what the problem is. And they don't want freedom for others or freedom for our people.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: 123143

God, that sounds like N Korea.

That's a very ignorant statement. I'm not advocating assassination of those who aren't politically correct or imprisonment for political dissidence.

It's time for this country to take care of itself rather than everyone else on the planet. It's time for other countries to step forward and deal with their own problems.

We've spent enough money on strangers. It's time to take care of Number 1.

a reply to: 123143

Isolation is how all that abuse starts. That is not possible when we are trying to get to Mars.

I agree, we could spend our money our veterans and all citizens instead of war. But, the apathy for war is our problem.

Sometimes I close my eyes and try to see an image which sums up all of my perceptions and reflections upon a subject.
They often take the form of a cartoon type image.

In the case of this issue in particular, What I see in mind is some sort of allegory. I have flashes of the experiences in my life, and those around me that I have witnessed, in which one gets caught up in their role of authority, responsibility and power until they are over-extended.

When they start being distant and negligent with their own family, or their own body... their efforts become self destructive, as they stay focused on and obsessed with how everyone else "out there" needs them. The more the family, home or their own health suffers, the more they project outward, often with the excuse that if they can only fix everything outside, then all will fall into order inside.

There is a lot of different things at work when this happens, a lot of it having to do with searching self respect and esteem through the admiration and submission of others. But it is at the expense of your closest relations, and often your own body.

When people fall into this trap, they also don't realize that they are no longer being very helpful to anyone out there. They get less efficient, their judgement becomes faulty, their efforts become clumsy, they start having trouble delegating tasks and nurturing alliances.

To handle responsibility and power in relation to others, you have to balance it with power and responsibility over yourself, or it falls apart.

In talking of a nation, tending to the internal health and well being of the people and systems is vital to remaining a leader to other nations. I tend to think, having gone through this sort of thing many times on a personal level, that there are times to stop focusing on being a hero for the rest of the world and turn inwards, to saving yourself for a while.
Because if you don't you might have become a tyrant and bully for others without even being aware of it!

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: Aphorism

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

If America leaves the world stage the world is lost.

I disagree...

It is now down to our generation to educate and show the next generation that Greed is not the most important factor.

The world is capable of living without the USA and this mindset needs to be corrected as of yesterday.

Arrogance is not something to be proud of in my opinion!

Read my posts above... Also I served for my country and crown for so called "freedom"...

When you have put a 7.62 bullet through the head of a 16 to 18 year old kid for freedom because your presidentLeader said so because they are evil let me know....

I am still trying to cope with that! (The Falklands)

Warmest

Lags

I'm not sure what greed has to do with it. Desire can be directed at higher virtues.

If the US pulled its military out of NATO or closed its many bases there will be nothing to deter foreign invasion. Every European country, the union, and all throughout the world leans on the Americans for defence. The world is incapable of living without the USA, and it is evident in the fact of the reliance on American military, economy, and even culture throughout the world.

Have you looked deeply into where your cheap petrol and mineral ressources are coming or going to come from when the USA runs out mate?

Warmest

Lags

Know how much oil has been located in the US in the last 10 years , mate ? Enough to do a long , long time. A couple more refineries and we are self-sufficient for a hundred years or so. That isnt including shale oil . Our only roadblock is our own people.
I feel it is time to pull back on the International Stage. We did once upon a time.
In fact , called an Isolationist Policy by some....
Lets see how the world gets along then....it didnt last time...

Yes I do Goth.

Do you know how long it will last and where your future ressources will come from?

Not from clean energy that is for sure.

Warmest

Lags

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

So I'd like to ask, which country benefited from our projection of freedom through military action?

I live in France and the French were and are grateful for the military action that our allies including the USA used during WW2 for the sake of freedom.

Warmest
Lags

That was the best the former US boys ever did!
But then, after Operation Overcast/Operation Paperclip(and if they couldn´t buy the Nazis with money and/or a new identity, Projekt Safehaven, to make sure those Nazis will only work for the former USA and nobody else)?

After they infected themselves willingly and knowingly with the Nazi ideologies?

They (the rich and only because of that ruling class and their actors to fool the people, so called politicians in that so called democratic government, NOT the average population!!!) became the "USA" we know today. Trying to spy on every single person on earth, destablizing whole regions on our earth, creating wars, chaos, suffering, refugee streams etc, but telling the world that the are the good ones and who is not with them, is the enemy.

Over decades, the real rulers of the former USA acted better then the best hollywood actors ever, with programming the peoples minds, programming whole regions, the "democratic" western regions and even their governments and politicians(via Coca Cola, hollywood movies and stuff). Everybody in the west really thought that only the former USA could save the world, from whatever. And that they only have the best intentions for a world of freedom. But since the world knows about economic hitmen, color revolutions, "NGO´s", hidden and silent or open and loud(often basing on lies and propaganda) regime changes, about CIA(and whatever former US three letter agencies else) torture facilities around the world, and many more stuff like that, the worlds population started to rethink it´s view on the former USA.

We can´t just remember that they fought on the side of all the other allies once(really the good side, at that time) and ignore everything they did to the world and it´s population after WWII. This wrong, like it is wrong to damn every german still as a Nazi, generations after WWII.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I agree with everything you said. Most Americans would condemn other countries if they got involved in our internal, border and regional conflicts. America spends trillions of dollars on overseas military bases, conflicts, occupations and military equipment. All at the expense of its own citizens. We have major problems here at home concerning healthcare, excessive taxation, education, out of control college debt, infrastructure and jobs. Imagine what a quarter of our military budget could do to help these problems.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: 123143

Isolation is how all that abuse starts. That is not possible when we are trying to get to Mars.

I agree, we could spend our money our veterans and all citizens instead of war. But, the apathy for war is our problem.

I'm not talking NK isolation. There would still be tourists and necessary trade with the rest of the globe. The Constitution would still apply.

Nothing would really change except that we'd be taking care of our own, which is the way it was meant to be. That's the whole reason there was a Revolution.

a reply to: 123143

Why don't you come out and say it. Let's stop invading other nations. I would stand by your side in protest of that. Bring our troops home to protect our country, our seas, and start boot camp for gangs.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


You mean the Department of Defense™ doing the job of the Department of Offense 6,000 miles away to "Protect Us"?

This is why I think Geo W. Bush did a great job "defending" the U.S. He never left the borders of the U.S. and He didn't waste a bunch of fuel flying around...

How much has Haliburton™ made on these wars???

Why has Afghanistan's production of opium grown from 7% up to 92% and the U.S. first had millions prescribed opiate pain medications (made from opium) and now a Heroin epidemic (made from opium) Why did we invade Afghanistan again?

What is a 'private prison' and who does it hold?

The ones that don't die using opiates will be arrested and their $$$ removed. Those w/out any $$ will take a "Plea Bargain" and be housed in the above. There isn't more dope being used in the ghetto than the suburb, those in the ghetto will take the plea..

What does this have to do with Your thread? This pays for these wars AFTER the guys at the top skim million$$$...

WAKE UP!!!!