My abortion rant

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

Not necessarily, shouldn't any cellular body that consumes and transfers energy for the potential of gifted energy be considered living, why would that be less so for plants than meat? We have to eat to survive. Plants and animals are energy containment devices, of which collected the energy from elsewhere. Animals just generally store at higher rates. Of course if your referring to the vegans that try to force veaganism, rather than those that accept it as their own personal choice, you could be right in that instance. Imo

**sorry off topic

originally posted by: DBCowboy
When I hear, "The pro-life crowd wants to save babies, but doesn't want to adopt" or they say, "After the child is born, they stop caring", it irritates me.

When someone is for Sanctuary Cities, do I get to ask how many illegals they are housing?

If somebody is asking you directly if you adopt and whatnot, that is not fair. The accusation of hypocrisy is partisan-based and is a charge leveled at Republicans, as a whole.

In general, the Republican party does not support the things that would minimize abortion like financial support for single mothers to encourage them to keep a baby they otherwise know they can't afford, promote sex education, and campaign for streamlining/simplifying adoption.

There are other kinds of pro-life people like myself who believe doing those above things will prevent far more abortions than making it illegal. I normally don't advertise that I am pro-life because I am also pro-choice (keep it legal but minimize the demand) and I get leveled with the same accusations from fellow lefties.

So on one hand, I understand your rant. But on the other, I think it's important to point out the hypocrisy of wanting to make it illegal without doing things to prevent it.

Its cute to see some people claiming they know what life is more important than others.

An abortion is a legal medical procedure between a woman and her doctor.

So thank you for the weekly abortion is so evil thread, thats all ats needs really.

An embryo is a human being in its earliest stages of development. We were all, at one point or other, an embryo. An abortion is to end the life of a human being in its earliest stages of development.

a reply to: Painterz

No because that isn't a stage in development....

originally posted by: DBCowboy
So they can choose, but we can't.

No, that's not correct at all. You can choose too. That's why it's called Pro-Choice. But you want to choose for someone else and that's the problem.

Nobody says you have to like others having abortions. Don't like it for all we care.

Nobody says you have to have abortions yourself. Don't have them for all we care.

That's your choice. I support you choosing for yourself. But I don't support you choosing for someone else. That's the difference. That's where it crosses the line.

It's not us being one sided on the issue, it's you, if your trying to choose for other people.

If someone chooses to not have an abortion, fine. If someone does choose to have one, fine. As long as it's them choosing for themselves. That's all. Nobody needs to like their choice or agree with it personally. But they have to let them choose all the same.

a reply to: DBCowboy

There are more reasons people wouldn't want every pregnancy besides societal scorn..

Most commonly not haveinf the money to raise a child..

But either way we still have rape an incest on the table.

Any policy has to include the worst case scenerios..

Really bad disabilities, rape, incest, life of the mother all would still apply if abortion was legal..

I didn't even mention societal blame..

a reply to: TheLead

If it is murder it is still murder in the worst case scenerios as well....

It really is an all or nothing type thing.

You say all that until your teen daughter is raped by a family member and is going to have a disabled child, if she even survives because there is some complication..

Which I promise you has happened more times than we as humanity would like to admit.

Do you tell your 14 daughter to still risk death to bring her sick uncles kid into the world and spend her whole life raising a disabled kid??

Your only allotting for the "inconvenient pregnancies".. not every pregnancy, and any policy has to account for EVERY pregnancy.

Unless your a woman who can actually give birth.....this is not a topic for men to discuss. Her body/her choice. Period.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

PSht....

There is no topic that people cannot discuss...

That is the dumbest assertion in history and means..

"I don't actually have a counterpoint, so instead I'm gonna deflect.."

Something people always forget is that fixing things like racism and sexism is not done by one race or sex....

It is done by a coalition of people from both ends...

Does women's sufferage go ANYWHERE without the men who helped champion it???

No..

Does slavery or segregation end without the whites who helped champion it??

No....

And the same would be true if roles were reversed...

a reply to: openyourmind1262

PSht....

There is no topic that people cannot discuss...

That is the dumbest assertion in history and means..

"I don't actually have a counterpoint, so instead I'm gonna deflect.."

Something people always forget is that fixing things like racism and sexism is not done by one race or sex....

It is done by a coalition of people from both ends...

Does women's sufferage go ANYWHERE without the men who helped champion it???

No..

Does slavery or segregation end without the whites who helped champion it??

No....

And the same would be true if roles were reversed...

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: TheLead

If it is murder it is still murder in the worst case scenerios as well....

If you believe in science we're all just a collection of cells that came from ansingularity.

It really is an all or nothing type thing.

Why? Because people are creatures of advantage, which goes against the it's an ideological world concept that goes against the libs argument that people are inherently good just in bad situations.

You say all that until your teen daughter is raped by a family member and is going to have a disabled child, if she even survives because there is some complication..

Which I promise you has happened more times than we as humanity would like to admit.

Do you tell your 14 daughter to still risk death to bring her sick uncles kid into the world and spend her whole life raising a disabled kid??

I understand that concept, but to assume that this is the majority when there are so many per year is misleading. Based on the numbers I would have to surmise that the vast majority are in fact for convenience factor.

Your only allotting for the "inconvenient pregnancies".. not every pregnancy, and any policy has to account for EVERY pregnancy.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Cowboy, I'll apologize in advance for my disjointed thoughts.
I think I understand how you feel and where you're coming from. I can't imagine the struggle or the anguish that most folks deciding on abortion must go through even though I've had close friends who have chosen this, it was truly their struggle and I could only support them. My question would be, except in cases of rape, incest, impending death or no quality of life (unviable) for the unborn once born or determined death for the mother, why are the number of abortions, not for the reasons above, still being performed in the US in this day and age?

It seems such a harsh medical procedure for the mother (and in some cases the unborn) and I can't believe that it would be used as a preferred method of birth control by the majority of women seeking abortions. The numbers of abortions being being performed annually are shocking to me. Except in cases of incest, rape and health issues (both mother and the unborn) that speaks to me more about the need for sex education, open communication beginning at a young age with children, financial aid to assist folks with the choice of being able to raise a child and in the end, making it an easier and less expensive process to adopt if the child is truly NOT wanted by either parent.

In Tennessee, children as young as 12 can seek out and obtain birth control without their parent's knowledge or consent. That's a good thing, IMO however, it would be more ideal if children felt that they could discuss these choices with their parents as well. Also, in Tennessee, although I had lived with my daughters' father, unmarried for going on 20 years and raised them (so far successfully for the most part) and even though my nephews (3) were in state custody, the state made us jump through many hoops and although the majority of the fees associated with the act of adopting were covered by the state (and yes, I negotiated Medicaid for them until they turned 18 because they want the children 'off of their books' so to speak) we were required to get legally married before adoption. It was well worth it although an expensive undertaking and have just recently climbed out of that hole.

Having been an adoptee and someone who adopted, I can say it's not an easy task.
So all in all, there are no easy answers and it's not a one size fits all issue and will never be, IMO, too many variables.
I do believe it should be one's choice and not my choice for them. I do think we should, somehow, begin to change the NEED for abortions in cases of unplanned pregnancies. I can't personally fathom the pain (involved in the decision) and consequences and/or aftermath of choosing to end a pregnancy for medical reasons or otherwise and I wonder if (only speaking of women at this point) it hasn't added to any growing mental health crises? I also recall how surprised some folks I met along my way were shocked that I hadn't chosen to legally marry my children's father and how the state couldn't wrap their head around the fact that I thought it was an unfair directive set out prior to adoption of my nephews. It's funny, isn't it? The stigma that religion or states place on some families of a different perspective.

I suppose, today, I am pro choice however I do wish there were better choices.
Anyway, thanks for your time.

Abortion: three words; Safe, Legal, Rare.

a reply to: TheLead

No because if it is murder, it is still murder when a fetus from rape or incest..

It would still be murder to save the life of the mother..


If you put a gun to my child's head and tell me to kill someone.. I still murdered that person.. maybe for a good reason, but it's still murder..


If it is murder how come we don't have funerals for miscarriages??

If it is murder why aren't you storming the local abortion clinic armed to the teeth??

If my neighbor is gonna LEGALLY kill his children in the morning, I kick in the door against the law or not..

I'm sure you do too..


If someone is going pro life, the fundamentalist veiw is the intellectually honest side.. but honestly that was and would be a disaster in real life.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree with terminations in respect of FFA, rape & incest, health issues that may cause fatal complications both mentally & physicslly for the mother, victims of domestic abuse and for lifestyle choices *I'm using the term lifestyle choice to cover a very broad range of reasons for terminations

Overall I support legal and safe access to abortion up to 20-22 weeks. That is my personal opinion based on the fact that even up to 22 weeks it's unlikely that a foetus will be able to survive outside of the womb. So again, in my opinion, it's the termination of a POTENTIAL life.

At the moment where I live there is no legal and safe access to abortion and the number of women that travel to the UK for access is fairly large and we have no aftercare support for women that have gone through with a termination.

I can only imagine the thought process and am glad that I have never been put in this position but I know, that if I fell pregnant I would have to travel to the UK for an abortion and I don't think that's fair when doctors here will deny me my right at the age of 26 to have a tubal ligation (tubes tied) because I can't be trusted to know my own mind and "ah sure, she might change her mind" and - at the risk of sounding like a feminist - feel as though, in respect of my reproductive health, am seen as nothing more than an oven for having lots and lots and lots of babas. It seems to offend people when I tell them motherhood is not for me.

My issue with anyone that associates themselves with being "pro life" is that you are fighting for the POTENTIAL life, that MAY survive a pregnancy and you're tossing the woman's right to her body to the sidelines. In effect you are interfering with a fully developed adult and in my eyes I don't see how a potential life trumps a fully developed, living, breathing, cognitive human when you know nothing of the reasoning regarding her decision.

Here is where I stand on the issue. Like Abysha, I am pro-choice AND pro-life. I believe we should as a society do everything we can to reduce unwanted pregnancies. That means I am willing to pay more taxes to go towards programs that provide education, free birth control AND financial assistance to those who don't have support when they find themselves pregnant.

That means we don't all have to personally adopt a kid, but it does mean we have to be willing to help if we want to force someone by law to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.

I think people are confused about what constitutes "a baby". When a sperm enters an ova, a baby it is not. It takes time.
Should there be time-limits? Most certainly, and early-on, well before it becomes a viable "baby".

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Here is where I stand on the issue. Like Abysha, I am pro-choice AND pro-life. I believe we should as a society do everything we can to reduce unwanted pregnancies. That means I am willing to pay more taxes to go towards programs that provide education, free birth control AND financial assistance to those who don't have support when they find themselves pregnant.

That means we don't all have to personally adopt a kid, but it does mean we have to be willing to help if we want to force someone by law to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.

I agree with everything you said above, as well as what Abysha has said. I have barely seen anything in the way of there being a large group of people calling themselves pro-abortion. Of course there will always be a select few radical nutjobs on any side of any stance that scream louder than the less-radical people with more sane beliefs. That's where actual pro-choice comes into play. I really think this should be between a woman and her physician. But because I say that, it does not mean I'm pro-abortion. In a perfect world, we would be able to find a way to limit abortions and provide improved education to all women, as well as better care and access to this care and further resources.

Well said Kayla.

“Killing is killing, whether done for duty, profit or fun”


― Richard Ramirez




Disagree?