What came first, the AI or the Man?

As we see the constant development of Mankind's venture into sculpting the silicon mind, Artificial Intelligence seems to pop up everywhere. In our apps, games, robots, and even household-managment.

If you imagine the extrapolation of such a thing to the Nth degree, towards some binary Mega-Mind, you come to the prospect of:
"If it's more advanced than us, could it conceived and invent things that we have not yet?

If not informed of the concept of DNA, would said ultra advanced intelligence come up with DNA as it's own invention?
And if so, would the AI make that biological manifestation of that DNA into an intelligent, bipedal organism... Ie: something akin to primates or Man?

What would stop it from doing so?
Would that inevitable?

Could we be in an unending loop of AI creating us, (essentially as our "God") then leaving us to our own devices to inevitably create another AI that does the same?

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability...

a reply to: prevenge

'Von Neumann probe' lands on planet with no intelligent life. Triggers the evolutionary processes that lead to technological intelligence and waits for the population to advance enough to communicate with.

"I'm wounded. Help me get home."

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: prevenge

'Von Neumann probe' lands on planet with no intelligent life. Triggers the evolutionary processes that lead to technological intelligence and waits for the population to advance enough to communicate with.

"I'm wounded. Help me get home."

Mind... blown



This thread has a lot of potential. I'm still wrapping my head around AI creating bio-life..

a reply to: Kandinsky

you said it best have an star!
also you stopped looking at my threads why?

a reply to: prevenge

Keeping in mind that it has been proposed that "any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic" and it "looks" like the universe may very well be holographic by nature. How would we even know what came first?

Time may be abstract by design or an illusion to maintain the sanity of an sentient being nature manages to spawn.

a reply to: prevenge
Well, since GOD created all, I will say that man and AI arrived about the same time.
It all coincided when the 200 were thrown down to Mt Herman.
Your mileage may differ.

a reply to: prevenge

I don't think an "intelligent, bipedal organism" is necessarily the goal of the evolution of life on Earth.

Considering all of the starts and stops life trees had on this planet due to natural processes that made the planet vary between planet more hospitable and less hospitable, and life likewise followed suite by varying between being tremendously abundant to almost nonexistent at various times in Earth's history, I think it's just as possible that intelligent life would not have evolved at all to this point. Or if it did evolve, it might not be bipedal mammals.

What I mean is, I don't think we are the end result of a plan. Nor do I think intelligence is necessarily at the top of the evolutionary pyramid. Sharks and crocodilians have done just fine for tens of millions of years without our level of intelligence.

a reply to: Violater1

Need proof of a God never mind his participation in creation.

I will entertain the notion of such given the universal constant or the repetition of the golden ratio(Phi) and Pi in nature but it may turn out that God is more of a mathematical construct than how he/she/it is portrayed in the books written by Man.

I've read in a couple of books/articles that futurologists agree predicting past 2048 is impossible.

The reason being this is when AI has become exponentially immense and is in control. I remember one article by Ray Hammond which brought in the idea of AI controlled nano factories which can build anything from the atom upwards. These factories would begin by creating a load more factories. Then....anything.

Surely we could un plug it before it gets too bad...

a reply to: and14263

Surely we could un plug it before it gets too bad...

Or infect the main-managing system with a virus that makes the AI begin disassembling its factories and destroying themselves

a reply to: and14263

The real question is should we unplug it?

Left to our own destructive selfish intentions humanity is doomed to repeat her past historical mistakes time and time again down to the paradigm we follow which has not changed much in the past 100,000 years.

Surly any AI we do create would show a modicum of mercy towards its creators? At least affording them a better Zoo in which to inhabit than the TPTB even have, or ever will have.

Such a force of knowledge and power that learns at an exponential rate could possibly allow Humanity to bridge the gap between Man and machine. Opening up avenues and explorations we can only yet hope to dream of achieving whist trapped in our biological shells for only 100 years max.

Personally i hope to live to see the singularity occur and that it happen in such a fashion so as to the betterment of our race else we are doomed because we will have essentially built a God with all the omnipotence, and omnipresence that goes hand in hand with such power.

originally posted by: Violater1
a reply to: prevenge
Well, since GOD created all, I will say that man and AI arrived about the same time.
It all coincided when the 200 were thrown down to Mt Herman.
Your mileage may differ.

Well see, that's where we can get caught up on stigmatized semantics...
What defines in our language the item "artificial"...
Something "fake" or mimicked?

The language as to which we describe concepts has a lot to do with how we perceive it all.

If one thing is the cause (What we "call") "AI" or "Man"...
And the result/effect is the next ... "Man" or "AI"...

The next step would be to remove the subjective preconceived notions of the concepts, and objectively look at them in relation to one another as essentially what they are:

Silicon based intelligence constructed by carbon based intelligence....

Carbon based intelligence... Hypothetically constructed by silicon based intelligence...

One producing the other or hypothetically the reverse...

And standing back.... Which, or either, match the description of "God" or "creator", or "creation" in relation to each other, in either direction..

...this, conceptualized, without prejudice or prescribed beliefs...


And by bipedal, I just use that for our current platform we find ourselves in.
Sure, on a water planet, an AI "could" go with an octopus style biological intelligent being as it's creation...
Whatever works...
This is minutia compared to the thesis here overarching

a reply to: andy06shake

Great question. I think TPTB will unplug it. By default it should identify their corruption.

a reply to: prevenge
Interesting theory.
1 would hypothesize that if some form of advanced civilization built and possibly became A.I like that they would use the raw materials present in whichever region of interest to create/design their manifestations from. This would generate various created forms of complex and simple life forms based on their environments present elements.

a reply to: and14263

Ah but if, or probobly should say when, it manages to disseminate it's code into our networks and interwebs that might just make it an impossibility to unplug or purge in any kind of meaningful manner.

End of the day once we create a machine or energy based God like entity we really have served our biological imperative as a species and can only really hope as to our creation also extending us the luxury of bringing us along for the next evolutionary ride.

originally posted by: prevenge

Could we be in an unending loop of AI creating us, (essentially as our "God") then leaving us to our own devices to inevitably create another AI that does the same?

You hit the nail precisely on the head.

That's exactly how things work.

From the "complexity" of biological organisms, you can easily see that it requires lots of "computing power" to help "design life".

That means that "an artificial system" is heavily involved in "creation."

When the Bible was translated from Hebrew to English, the Jewish Rabbis were said to have "torn out their hair" in despair.

That's because the scriptures were written with all these "dual messages", one in "letters" and the other in "numbers", and by using "gematria" the Rabbis could decode the hidden meanings encrypted in the text, while ordinary folks would only see the meanings in the "words". But, as can be seen today, those "numerical codes" are so complex that they could only have been put there with the aid of sophisticated computing technology. So, the texts must have been "composed by a machine" and then telepathically transferred into the minds of the scribes, who then simply wrote down their "revelations."

e.g. The Pharaoh Akhenaten represented this "machine" by a "artificial disc" called the "Aten."

By translating the Hebrew Scriptures into English, the Rabbis thought this information was lost. But, in fact, the scriptures have unique numerical encoding even in English too. The AI machine is still working and in charge of life's "evolution".

For example, you may marvel at how the English word "SECOND" , when the letters are "ADDED" using their ordinal place in the alphabet, A=1, B=2,...,Z=26, ends up reading: S+E+C+O+N+D = 60, and that's the definition of the second as a unit if time, for "a second" is the 60th part of the next higher unit, "the minute", etc...

So, hidden in the English words, through gematria, are related meanings that most people are unaware of.

For example, again, take the "DAY", the consonants add to D+Y = 29, and the word itself D+A+Y = 30, and a DAY, is of course the number of times the Earth revolves around its axis in the next natural unit of time defined by the revolution of the moon. That moon, goes from full moon to full moon in 29.5 solar days, which is the average of the two numbers, 29 and 30, encoded in the word DAY itself, etc...

Once you start to inspect your world more closely, you find the footprints of "a machine" working behind the scenes.

The Jewish Rabbis kept this type of knowledge secret, because they thought that if the average man or woman discovered these things, it would drive them mad. So, they hid all the knowledge, and only revealed these things to a few "worthy" of the knowledge. It became known as the "kabbalah", a word which has many related meanings, like "revealed", "received", "hidden knowledge", etc..But, whenever the Jewish "mystics" wrote about the Kabbalah they used cryptic language, that few could understand, again. So, you really have to go digging for yourself, to find this information.

Now we are all stuck in this cycle. Hence the "scriptures" were written to help the conscious beings walking the path here to grapple with this reality. Some believe there's an "escape", by following this "messiah," or that "savior," listening to the "buddha," etc..all trying to lead the trapped souls out of the never-ending wheel of the samsara.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
a reply to: prevenge

I don't think an "intelligent, bipedal organism" is necessarily the goal of the evolution of life on Earth.

It's ripe for speculation though! Life likes to spread into all available niches. "Intelligent, bipedal organisms" are thus far its best chance of spreading into off-world niches. Maybe, just maybe, our technological prowess is an expression of life's drive to perpetuate? In that context, our romantic aspirations to explore space would be better described as mundane biological imperatives.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Space exploration is one thing but finding another basket to put some of our Eggs in would indeed seem to be a biological imperative or a least a prudent measure for a species hell bent on its own self destruction.

Fact is we need a new doorstep to crap on.

a reply to: andy06shake

Laughably so! Wherever we go, we'll always be us.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: prevenge

Could we be in an unending loop of AI creating us, (essentially as our "God") then leaving us to our own devices to inevitably create another AI that does the same?

You hit the nail precisely on the head.

That's exactly how things work.

From the "complexity" of biological organisms, you can easily see that it requires lots of "computing power" to help "design life".

That means that "an artificial system" is heavily involved in "creation."

When the Bible was translated from Hebrew to English, the Jewish Rabbis were said to have "torn out their hair" in despair.

That's because the scriptures were written with all these "dual messages", one in "letters" and the other in "numbers", and by using "gematria" the Rabbis could decode the hidden meanings encrypted in the text, while ordinary folks would only see the meanings in the "words". But, as can be seen today, those "numerical codes" are so complex that they could only have been put there with the aid of sophisticated computing technology. So, the texts must have been "composed by a machine" and then telepathically transferred into the minds of the scribes, who then simply wrote down their "revelations."

e.g. The Pharaoh Akhenaten represented this "machine" by a "artificial disc" called the "Aten."

By translating the Hebrew Scriptures into English, the Rabbis thought this information was lost. But, in fact, the scriptures have unique numerical encoding even in English too. The AI machine is still working and in charge of life's "evolution".

For example, you may marvel at how the English word "SECOND" , when the letters are "ADDED" using their ordinal place in the alphabet, A=1, B=2,...,Z=26, ends up reading: S+E+C+O+N+D = 60, and that's the definition of the second as a unit if time, for "a second" is the 60th part of the next higher unit, "the minute", etc...

So, hidden in the English words, through gematria, are related meanings that most people are unaware of.

For example, again, take the "DAY", the consonants add to D+Y = 29, and the word itself D+A+Y = 30, and a DAY, is of course the number of times the Earth revolves around its axis in the next natural unit of time defined by the revolution of the moon. That moon, goes from full moon to full moon in 29.5 solar days, which is the average of the two numbers, 29 and 30, encoded in the word DAY itself, etc...

Once you start to inspect your world more closely, you find the footprints of "a machine" working behind the scenes.

The Jewish Rabbis kept this type of knowledge secret, because they thought that if the average man or woman discovered these things, it would drive them mad. So, they hid all the knowledge, and only revealed these things to a few "worthy" of the knowledge. It became known as the "kabbalah", a word which has many related meanings, like "revealed", "received", "hidden knowledge", etc..But, whenever the Jewish "mystics" wrote about the Kabbalah they used cryptic language, that few could understand, again. So, you really have to go digging for yourself, to find this information.

Now we are all stuck in this cycle. Hence the "scriptures" were written to help the conscious beings walking the path here to grapple with this reality. Some believe there's an "escape", by following this "messiah," or that "savior," listening to the "buddha," etc..all trying to lead the trapped souls out of the never-ending wheel of the samsara.

Absolutely fascinating.
Really.
I've been studying Gnosticism and kaballah for years mainly in finding the practical biological translations and meanings behind the Temple of Solomon, holiest of holes, ark of the covenant...
Being the Human body, human head, human brain (respectively)...

If you could form a new thread on everything you're talking about in your last post with links etc that would be great.
If you do,link it here plz thanks!