The transgender con ? Many transgender regret switch

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix


Religion is a mental illness, prove your invisible sky man exists...oh wait you can't. Well you must be crazy because you worship an "entity" that you can not through scientific means prove exists. Furthermore you treat people like crap and as subhuman because your "skyman" says it's not only ok to do so but encourages such mean spirited narrow mindedness. Stop forcing your religion and all it's silly "rules" on the rest of us who want nothing to do with it. It should be removed from schools so that normal, healthy non religious kids don't have to be exposed to such dangerously delusional zealots. It should be removed from currency because having to see it forces me to accept your delusion. The difference between "the delusions" here is that one of them does not encourage people to judge and treat others like crap at the behest of an invisible sky man. I don't know about you but one of those sounds really crazy and bad for society as a whole. We coddle and cater to the loonies while they avoid paying taxes like the rest of us and even protect and hide sexual predators from justice but yeah I'm the insane villain here. I need a hug now and some ice cream or chocolate. I always feel emotionally drained after these threads.

The only kind of bigotry that is guaranteed to get you some "cool points"- bigotry against the religious. PS I had read your post keenly up until this paragraph because I thought it might be worth something. My bad.

It was for comparison purposes but if you want to dismiss everything I said over that point of comparison then that's your perogative. No skin off my back.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: muzzleflash
I have to agree with you.

Even if I was atheist , I would still have the same concerns in regards to transitioning, and would still guide my children away from the concept .

Well this isn't a debate on if God's real or anything resulting from that concept.

Everyone should be concerned about this issue because we are talking about medicine and psychology which is by it's substance, a health issue.

In this debate the entire topic of religion is a Red Herring and essentially changes the topic into something else.

It distracts from the entire OP's premise.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
I have not seen one valid argument proposed during the entire decade long trans debate that even attempts to explain how someone born one sex can validly think they are the other sex.

Also it seems no one's willing to admit sex change is impossible. It is just a form of mutilation.


Psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists are generally horrible scientists and this is yet another example of their devotion to money at the detriment of their patients.


I don't care if people mutilate themselves but I refuse to share in their delusions. They are idiots. People do a lot of stupid things.

If you've never seen one valid argument for somebody being born one sex but identifying as the other, then... honestly you've not looked very hard. Look up intersex children on wikipedia, there's a good start. You might be shocked at how common it is.

Or talk to some actual Trans folks, listen to their stories, understand their lives and how they came to be on the road they are on. Understand how they knew from very young ages that they might have been born one gender, but have always felt as if they are the other.

You might find yourself being moved, listening to their struggles. You'll certainly learn a lot more than you will from reading hitpieces articles by fundamentalist religious groups who think being trans is bad and wrong and evil and must be stopped for reasons that make no sense.


Sex change is possible. It is not as you put it, 'mutilation'. Again, look up the wiki article if you wish, it's very clever medical science. Trans people can get fully functional genitals. I mean, it's a little rude to be so interested in other peoples genitals as to classify it as mutilation, but honestly, trans women can get fully functional vaginas, trans men can get penises. Not mutilation.


Psychologists and therapists are not horrible scientists. You know who is horrible scientists? Lay people on the internet who don't have degrees in science but think they know better because they have very strong feelings on a subject. The important thing to remember here is NOT EVERYWHERE IS AMERICA! Yes, America has a problem with big pharma making money, but the rest of the worlds pyschologists and therapists and doctors don't operate under the American Profit First motive, so their science is actually pretty impartial and trustworthy.



They're not delusional, they're not idiots. Do you not understand that calling Trans people 'delusional idiots' who 'self mutilate' is actually very very offensive?

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

Religion is a mental illness.

I take offence to that, you have insulted billions of people alive right now, and billions that have died believing at some point something better will happen to them.

One day it will be a fact that the transgender fad was a "mental illness" and it won't exist because Jesus will have cured all of you just like he cured leprosy when he was alive. Only then will people truly understand, after it's cured and gone.

FYI-nobody wanted to kill lepers, many people felt extreme pity for them, as did Jesus, but if a leper started trash talking religious Jews, you can be sure that would change in a hurry. This is a point the trans community needs to understand, there is natural empathetic human sympathy many Christians can have towards them, but tell them they are mentally ill for believing in God and you will have squandered any empathy that was left.

I don't want your empathy and I maintain that the condition of religion is s mental illness. Doesn't feel good to be repeatedly put down for "feelings" does it? You say you have faith in your religion well I gave faith in my indentity. We can agree to mutually respect each other's beliefs and be friends or we can fight and argue, it's up to you.

I think you do want our empathy , and is the reason you started a thread on it not being a mental illness.
You have my compassion and concern RainbowPhoenix, and like I said I wish you happiness , though I have my doubts through what I' ve read , that you will ever find complete contentment in your transition.

Just don't blame the ones who had concerns for the outcome of your transition, and make them scapegoats for your emotional and psychological unhappiness.

a reply to: Painterz

Or talk to some actual Trans folks, listen to their stories, understand their lives and how they came to be on the road they are on. Understand how they knew from very young ages that they might have been born one gender, but have always felt as if they are the other.

According to the article, many unhappy and delusioned ,regretful transgendered are afraid to speak out about their true feelings because of backlash from trans community.

To have any type of " honest " discussion with a trans may be more difficult if you weigh that into the equation.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

Religion is a mental illness.

I take offence to that, you have insulted billions of people alive right now, and billions that have died believing at some point something better will happen to them.

One day it will be a fact that the transgender fad was a "mental illness" and it won't exist because Jesus will have cured all of you just like he cured leprosy when he was alive. Only then will people truly understand, after it's cured and gone.

FYI-nobody wanted to kill lepers, many people felt extreme pity for them, as did Jesus, but if a leper started trash talking religious Jews, you can be sure that would change in a hurry. This is a point the trans community needs to understand, there is natural empathetic human sympathy many Christians can have towards them, but tell them they are mentally ill for believing in God and you will have squandered any empathy that was left.

I don't want your empathy and I maintain that the condition of religion is s mental illness. Doesn't feel good to be repeatedly put down for "feelings" does it? You say you have faith in your religion well I gave faith in my indentity. We can agree to mutually respect each other's beliefs and be friends or we can fight and argue, it's up to you.

I think you do want our empathy , and is the reason you started a thread on it not being a mental illness.
You have my compassion and concern RainbowPhoenix, and like I said I wish you happiness , though I have my doubts through what I' ve read , that you will ever find complete contentment in your transition.

Just don't blame the ones who had concerns for the outcome of your transition, and make them scapegoats for your emotional and psychological unhappiness.

I don't want anything to do with you or anyone who thinks like you. I think you are a disgusting troll. I wear my emotions on my sleeve sometimes but you will always know where you stand with me. So if you didn't know then you do now, I hold nothing but contempt and disgust for you. You do not know me so please stop acting like you do, it's annoying to be honest because if I don't respond then will think you won some kind of victory forcing my retreat. In reality I want nothing more to do with this alt-right circle jerk of a thread. I'm out, have fun Trans bashing and for the allies thanks again your words help offset the insult from those other posts.

a reply to: Sheye

Thank you again for making a respectful and thoughtful thread about a very sensitive (and controversial!) issue. Like you, I am quite concerned about the people who have to deal with these issues... especially children... and the political football it has become. Legitimate issues have been hijacked and corrupted for personal and political agendas, and -- as always happens in such cases -- it's the one's suffering most who lose the most.

There is no one-size-fits-all bandage to "fix" this.... because there is not one single cause for gender dysphoria. It can be mental, physical, emotional, perhaps even spiritual, and multiple combinations thereof.

I think we -- as in society -- are going to have to let this play out and learn what we need to learn from the experiences of everyone involved and affected. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Because, at least as I see it, we (society) created this whole mess by thinking we can define gender in a social context. Before there were gender non-conformers, there were others (more often than not men) trying to force people to conform to their idea of what gender means (beyond body parts). Especially in terms of telling women who they "really" are and/or "should" be. Today, there aren't many (if any) true gender conformers. Anyone "living" as the opposite gender is just living what they think is that life. And they know it on some level, hence their deep desire to "pass" for that gender. In fact, it is transgender persons who seem to be the most stuck on gender stereotypes -- what they perceive to be gender appropriate (for want of a better word).

There is an old adage that good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. Sometimes we just have to do the wrong thing first to know that it's wrong and why and how it's wrong, to find the right answers. Forgive this very poor metaphor, but it seems we are going from one extreme (gender rigidity) to the other extreme (gender fluidity). Obviously, we need to find that happy medium. But we're going to have to find out what doesn't work right along with what does work, and we can only do that with practice and experience. For example, there is a school of thought that many male-to-female transgenders are actually producing too much testosterone. But rather than just find ways to block the excess testosterone, female hormones are added to the mix. So perhaps with hormone blockers given to young boys -- but not the female hormones -- we will find that the reduced testosterone levels are enough to "cure" their discomfort and unease. Perhaps the medical establishment will start paying a little more attention to the abuse so very many transgender persons experienced as a child, which can and will have a great impact on their mental and emotional development. And maybe society as a whole will finally stop trying to define who and what real men and women are, and we can simply love and respect our fellow men/women for themselves.

Speaking from faith, we know that God don't make no junk -- we are all perfectly imperfect with unlimited potential. Sure, we all have our challenges, even our crosses to bear, but we know that great things can come from even the worst circumstances. I think of the woman born blind, and the Apostles asked Jesus who had sinned that she was born blind, and Jesus replied that no one had sinned... she had been born blind in order to make the wonders of God manifest. I don't understand all the whys and wherefores, but I have faith that the Lord is working in His mysterious ways, and that we're in a rough patch here, but it will work out in the end -- His wonders to behold!!! I almost never ever quote St Paul, but it seems appropriate here: Stay the course, keep your faith till the end, and fight the good fight.

And I appreciate you being part of that good fight. We know that non-conforming folks of all kinds have been and still are treated quite horribly too often by too many people. No one deserves that, and it's easy to understand why transgender people and their supporters are defensive, protective, and ready to rumble so to speak. It's the hate that they've received too many times from too many people. Nothing will be resolved that way though. Finding that happy medium for society and individuals requires thoughtful and respectful discussion and consideration from all sides.

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

Religion is a mental illness.

I take offence to that, you have insulted billions of people alive right now, and billions that have died believing at some point something better will happen to them.

One day it will be a fact that the transgender fad was a "mental illness" and it won't exist because Jesus will have cured all of you just like he cured leprosy when he was alive. Only then will people truly understand, after it's cured and gone.

FYI-nobody wanted to kill lepers, many people felt extreme pity for them, as did Jesus, but if a leper started trash talking religious Jews, you can be sure that would change in a hurry. This is a point the trans community needs to understand, there is natural empathetic human sympathy many Christians can have towards them, but tell them they are mentally ill for believing in God and you will have squandered any empathy that was left.

I don't want your empathy and I maintain that the condition of religion is s mental illness. Doesn't feel good to be repeatedly put down for "feelings" does it? You say you have faith in your religion well I gave faith in my indentity. We can agree to mutually respect each other's beliefs and be friends or we can fight and argue, it's up to you.

I think you do want our empathy , and is the reason you started a thread on it not being a mental illness.
You have my compassion and concern RainbowPhoenix, and like I said I wish you happiness , though I have my doubts through what I' ve read , that you will ever find complete contentment in your transition.

Just don't blame the ones who had concerns for the outcome of your transition, and make them scapegoats for your emotional and psychological unhappiness.

I don't want anything to do with you or anyone who thinks like you. I think you are a disgusting troll. I wear my emotions on my sleeve sometimes but you will always know where you stand with me. So if you didn't know then you do now, I hold nothing but contempt and disgust for you. You do not know me so please stop acting like you do, it's annoying to be honest because if I don't respond then will think you won some kind of victory forcing my retreat. In reality I want nothing more to do with this alt-right circle jerk of a thread. I'm out, have fun Trans bashing and for the allies thanks again your words help offset the insult from those other posts.

This thread was started to point out the serious matter of deep regret after transitioning, and to point out it is a very serious decision that needs much thought. There is no going back, and for some ,that fact caused them to take their own lives.

Is it better to know about these regrets and read about them from transgendered themselves, before you move ahead to make a hugely life altering decision?

I say yes.. hence this thread .

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Painterz

Or talk to some actual Trans folks, listen to their stories, understand their lives and how they came to be on the road they are on. Understand how they knew from very young ages that they might have been born one gender, but have always felt as if they are the other.

According to the article, many unhappy and delusioned ,regretful transgendered are afraid to speak out about their true feelings because of backlash from trans community.

To have any type of " honest " discussion with a trans may be more difficult if you weigh that into the equation.

Ah yes, but as we have established the people who wrote the article are not... exactly reliable sources on this one.

I'm afraid I have to go with what actual Trans people say about their experiences, rather than what a homophobic and transphobic organisation alleges.

And honestly, if you'd ever known a Trans person, you'd know they are NOT afraid of speaking their minds.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I wasn't going to post this but I'm effing angry now so I will but remember that one time when you PM'd me? It was shortly after we had both posted in a members photo's thread. You asked how I was doing and where I had been ant that you missed my post's. I replied that I had been around but not posting too much and that sometimes I needed to take a break because it was hard not to get sucked into the anti-Trans threads because being Trans made them very personal to me. You were shocked and said that you had no idea was Trans and even went so far as to compliment my appearance. To be honest I really only threw that out there because I wasn't sure if you were just being nice/social or hitting on me, it can be hard to tell sometimes with guys so I just wanted to be upfront right away. It's funny also that you stopped corresponding shortly after that.

Point being that what was said in those private moments was in stark contrast to what you say here

I don't care if people mutilate themselves but I refuse to share in their delusions. They are idiots. People do a lot of stupid things.

You were so nice in private now you call me delusional and an idiot and to think that you feel that way simply because of a moniker. Until you knew that one detail about me you thought that I was nice, interesting and even pretty. Stuff like that hurts the most when someone does a complete 180 degrees on how they feel about you simply because they learn you are Trans. Happens all the time too unfortunately and is an example of how even the idea of a Trans person disgusts people even when up until disclosure they though highly of the individual. This is a sad example of the prejudices and ill treatment we face. We are abandoned and thrown to the wolves all the time by people who we thought cared about us simply for trying to be authentic to who we are.


Edit: To expand on this and hopefully provide some more insight into one particular contributing factor in "Trans depression". We suffer a lot in terms of romantic pursuits or at least from the Male to female (MtF) side of things. We are highly objectified and sought after as sexual fantasies/conquests. Lots of men will secretly enjoy our company and find us attractive even going so far as to be intimate with us but a lot of these same men will not date us or be with us in a real committed relationship or even be seen in public with us for fear of stigma and shaming. To some degree society shames or mocks men that would otherwise date us even more so than they do us to an extent. These men identify as heterosexual and find themselves enjoying the company and beauty of Trans woman but feel fear of being labeled something they are not (homosexual) by their peers and society in general so they simply use us for those fleeting moments then run back to their unhappy marriages. This happens a lot and is a big contributing factor to some of our issues with depression. This is also a contributing factor in why a lot of Trans women turn to sex work, other factors would be discrimination in the hiring process and such. Just some personal insight into some of the inherent sadness that comes with being a Trans woman.

Live and let live.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Some people can't help the way they feel... you of all people should understand that.

While I applaud your freedom to transition as an adult ( not the means by which it is being paid for though)... you in turn have to respect how others may Feel ...

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

We are abandoned and thrown to the wolves all the time by people who we thought cared about us simply for trying to be authentic to who we are.

My heart goes out to you, RP. I can feel the hurt and pain in your words, and it hurts my own heart. Just because I know you're hurting.

We do, however, have very different ideas of what it means to be "authentic to who we are." You see, I'm happy to accept you exactly as you were born with all the quirks and idiosyncrasies and imperfections thereof. I will also accept your choice to make those changes that you feel will improve and enhance your life. We are all a work in progress. I don't care what you wear... I don't care who you love... I don't care how you live your life... as long as you're not hurting anyone. If we can't be friends, okay -- I'll wish you well and walk away and leave you to your journey.

But I hope that one day you can open your heart and mind to understand that just because someone thinks differently than you and has very real concerns, that it does not necessarily equal hate. Good people can disagree. And for all your insults about the "skyman" and mocking of faith, I also hope you one day understand that my faith in that "skyman" reaffirms and confirms what I already feel in my heart: That we should love one another as Jesus loved us... just the way we are... no more and no less.

Brightest blessings, RP.

originally posted by: Painterz

Understand how they knew from very young ages that they might have been born one gender, but have always felt as if they are the other.

The problem with that, is that it suggests there are just 2 genders: male and female.

So, a person "must" identify with one "or" the other.

Which gets us back to the religion, which says God created them "male and female".

So, any "confusion" in the mind of the individual is being interpreted as "male in female body" or "female in male body".

Because we really only have these two genders: "male" and "female"

To classify people with.

So, on the one hand the confused individuals "acknowledge" the truth, that there are just male and female,

and, on the other hand, they "interpret" their "confused feelings" as being, once again, male or female.

Do you see what is wrong with this?

Society is telling people they are transgender, when they are just mentally confused.

The problem is whenever people have real concerns about this issue and try to bring it to light to discuss, the same posse will always appear to stifle opposing views and opinions with childish tactics and ad Homs. They won't even entertain the idea of different opinions, calling them bigots while being an even bigger one. They have invested too much time and their confirmation bias shield has been reinforced to the point where nothing can penetrate it. This is the problem.

Nothing is absolute, especially when it comes to mental and physical health, we even now barely understand all the complexities that are involved, so for you to act like it's your answer and your answer only, is the epitome of arrogance and ignorance. People have real concerns, and instead of addressing it and discussing it, you outright dismiss it without thought, because the thought of an opposing view is too much for you to handle in your bubble.

Can people be born into the wrong bodies? In my opinion, yes they can.

Can people make premature decisions and regret it in the future? Of course they can and do, such is life where people regret all kinds of things.

The problem with the pro crowd, is when an issue like this is brought up, or even the issue of kids being exposed to it, they ignore these dynamics completely and pretend it's not real. Sorry to tell you, but that is not reality -- people make premature decisions all the time, kids are easily impressionable and social pressure is a real thing. To think that external Influences can't play a role in determining a child's path is extremely naive.


Nothing is black and white, so stop acting as if this issue is black and white.


$0.02

a reply to: Boadicea

My heart goes out to you, RP. I can feel the hurt and pain in your words, and it hurts my own heart. Just because I know you're hurting.

Stop projecting my words out of your fingers, I'm not hurting I'm pissed, big F*****G difference! My life is pretty awesome, I have a tall handsome man who takes me for rides in his exotic super car in my life. I've made more money in the last 4 years of my life than I ever had previously. I've all but completed my Transition and get compliments on how I "pass" all the time, my family and friends accept me, bills are paid, stomach is full. My only problems are first world in nature so trivial in the grand scope of things. I'm good but not everyone in my community can say the same and I feel sad for them and angry that some people haven't caught up to the civilized world yet.

a reply to: AMPTAH


Well you highlight the point that gender is more complicated than just two genders, male/female. And that's a fair point but slightly tangential to the debate.

Gender isn't a black/white binary choice, gender is a floating scale. And most of us exist pretty much at one extreme or the other, and that works for us. But a bunch of people exist somewhere in the middle, and fair enough for them, that's their business.


So I put it to you that it isn't actually the transgender people who are mentally confused, it's society, for thinking that gender is a black/white binary choice.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

So compliments, a tall man, money and exotic cars is what fulfills you?

Boad was being very honest and sincere with you, and you reacted in such a rude way. The more you speak, the more shallow you become and the more pain I sense.

You can tell yourself you're not in pain, but you can only hide it for so long.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Stuff like that hurts the most...

Stop projecting your words out of my fingers, I'm not hurting...

No, Rainbow, I will not stop. I will not stop caring. I will not stop having compassion and empathy. I will not stop loving my neighbor. I will not stop wanting and hoping and praying for the best for everyone.... including you.

I will, however, stop expressing such to you.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

So compliments, a tall man, money and exotic cars is what fulfills you?

Boad was being very honest and sincere with you, and you reacted in such a rude way. The more you speak, the more shallow you become and the more pain I sense.

You can tell yourself you're not in pain, but you can only hide it for so long.

I ownmy vanity though being a leo it is at the very least subtly inherent to my nature. So yes not stressing over where my next meal is going to come from or missing my car note and having an attractive mate who is also in a good stable financial situation in my life makes me very happy and I will not be made to feel ashamed for that.